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Old 26th June 2014, 10:17   #12541
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

I have one doubt since long -

Why do people seek tightness from the sub? I believe it is the midbass speaker's duty to provide punch as subs anyway work below 80Hz so I think no one can find tightness in that range. Is that a wrong expectation we people have?
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Old 26th June 2014, 11:47   #12542
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Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
I have one doubt since long -

Why do people seek tightness from the sub? I believe it is the midbass speaker's duty to provide punch as subs anyway work below 80Hz so I think no one can find tightness in that range. Is that a wrong expectation we people have?
Tightness is nothing but fast decay or less overhanging when low octaves are being played. If the decay period is high, the sound will be boomy / sounds detached from the mains / muddy sound etc.
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Old 26th June 2014, 12:38   #12543
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... Why do people seek tightness from the sub? I believe it is the midbass speaker's duty to provide punch as subs anyway work below 80Hz so I think no one can find tightness in that range. Is that a wrong expectation we people have?
If one attends a live music concert (small or large auditorium, or even street musicians), one gets a feeling for how individual bass instruments (drum, acoustic bass, electric bass) sound, or how rapid are notes being played without running into each other, and how long an individual beat or note lasts with significant intensity before decaying.

Assuming the sound recording system has captured 100% of the music, it now becomes the subject of "Hi-Fi(delity)" while reproducing. No reproduction system, least of all the economical systems in cars, is able to reproduce it 100% ( sometimes they reproduce >100%, if one fiddles with the graphic equalizer incorrectly). This is because the physical properties (mass, dynamic capabilities etc.) of the speakers reproducing the sound are different from the ones originally used to play it. This results in the things like the attack and decay of the note becoming different. Most commonly, this decay is at a slightly slower rate than what one would have heard live, resulting in the note or drum beat sounding lengthened - colloquially called "loose" or "boomy". "Tight" would represent a reproduction as close to the original as possible.

You are right, much of the reproduced "punch" is handled by the mid-bass, since "punch" is felt from the harmonics of the basic note. However, "punch" is different from "tightness". "Punch" is from the attack or leading part of the note, and "tightness" is from the trailing part. One can feel punch from a capable mid-bass, even if one is not hearing the fundamental harmonic from the sub (the 'low' part of the low notes). With a bad sub (and box combination), the trailing part comes out slightly lengthened (the 'mmm' in boommmm) and is highly irritating for musicians and those who have heard music live.
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Old 26th June 2014, 15:43   #12544
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Tightness is nothing but fast decay or less overhanging when low octaves are being played. If the decay period is high, the sound will be boomy / sounds detached from the mains / muddy sound etc.
Thanks CMS for your valuable inputs.

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post


You are right, much of the reproduced "punch" is handled by the mid-bass, since "punch" is felt from the harmonics of the basic note. However, "punch" is different from "tightness". "Punch" is from the attack or leading part of the note, and "tightness" is from the trailing part. One can feel punch from a capable mid-bass, even if one is not hearing the fundamental harmonic from the sub (the 'low' part of the low notes). With a bad sub (and box combination), the trailing part comes out slightly lengthened (the 'mmm' in boommmm) and is highly irritating for musicians and those who have heard music live.
Aha!! got it now Thanks for the wonderful explanation DA; so, tightness is in the trailing/sub frequency part and the punch is attack/mids part. Did I get this right?

One more doubt - What if I overlap the LPF over HPF by say 20 Hz. For ex - HPF at 80 and LPF at 90-100. Are subs designed to throw some mids?
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Old 26th June 2014, 17:06   #12545
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... Did I get this right? ...
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
... Are subs designed to throw some mids?
All subs have a significant overlap possibility with mid-bass. Some subs are designed to work till 120Hz, and some even till 250Hz. Mid-bass - decent ones - go down till 60-70Hz. Filter settings have a rolloff expressed in dB/Octave, usually 12dB/octave (an octave is the band between one frequency and 2x that frequency). This means that if both the LPF (for the sub) and the HPF (for the midbass) are set to 80Hz, there will be an overlap. Sub is louder in the lower part of the overlap, and midbass is louder in the higher part.

This overlap has a physical manifestation in the sound stage. The more one makes the sub overlap the mid-bass, the more is the sound stage pulled backwards from the dash region. OTOH, if one sets the LPF/HPF frequencies far apart, it creates a hole: some frequencies will not be produced by either, making some instruments like Tabla and Dholak not come out well. Tricky. Unfortunately there is no sanguine mathematical formula for these things. One has to be ready to experiment, and one has to go by the ear.
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Old 30th June 2014, 18:09   #12546
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi guys - have a very weird problem with my new City ICE setup which consists of JBL GTO S659C front components, Infinity PR6502is rear coax with a JBL GTX 646 amp wired by Scoche E400 wiring kit and a Hi-Lo converter. Setup was done at MA car studio, Lokhandwala/Oshiwara Mumbai.
The problem is a sharp "click" sound from the front components when the rear power windows are fully rolled up & the controlling buttons on the driver door are released. This does not occur if the rear windows switches are consistently "pushed" up on the rear doors themselves - just when controlled from the front door.

Any ideas? Im getting sleepless nights due to this :(
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Old 1st July 2014, 16:48   #12547
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... a sharp "click" sound from the front components when the rear power windows are fully rolled up & the controlling buttons on the driver door are released. ...
Nothing to worry about. Electrical noise - the rear winder switch on the driver panel is going bad and is arcing for an instant when released. You can either have the switch cleaned or replaced, or get a (non-electrolytic) capacitor put across the switch terminals.
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Old 2nd July 2014, 04:04   #12548
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hey guys, would like to know how the Rockford P1692s fare against the polk db691s and infinity kappa 693.11is in terms of lows( BASS). Not bothered too much about the mids and highs. I've heard the polks are great and offer a crisp sound experience but that the lows aren't that great. Nothing much about the kappas except that everybody thinks they are amazing but nothing is mentioned about their handling of lows. I personally have polk db651s at the front and Rockford P1692s at the rear, all handled by a Kenwood DDX4033 HU which was upgraded from the earlier Sony XAV 63 just for the sake of BASS. Ever since i read the reviews, I've been itching to replace the P1692s with the kappas but would like to know if the kappas really offer better lows and if the difference in sound quality is really notable . Thanks
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Old 3rd July 2014, 18:58   #12549
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Planning to upgrade the head unit in my Ertiga from stock to something that will give me the following features:
  1. Double DIN - Yes
  2. Bluetooth Pairing with Phone for handsfree - Yes
  3. Touchscreen - May Be
  4. DVD - Not really

I have read many folks say that Kenwood HU are good but may not produce as sharp an output as Pioneer?

I was contemplating on this product listed on Snapdeal:

http://www.kenwood.com/india/car/receiver/dpx-u5130bt/

What are your thoughts? And if not this, what's a better buy if I increase the limit to 15k Max?

Upgrade to better speaker will only happen later as I am having a touch time to take calls using the wired handsfree on my mobile and I personally hate the Bluetooth handfree on ears!

Last edited by paragsachania : 3rd July 2014 at 19:00.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 21:21   #12550
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
What are your thoughts? And if not this, what's a better buy if I increase the limit to 15k Max?

Upgrade to better speaker will only happen later as I am having a touch time to take calls using the wired handsfree on my mobile and I personally hate the Bluetooth handfree on ears!
The Kenwoods good too but I would personally pick the pioneer over the kenwood. Search around in the market. Since you are in Delhi, check with MotorConcepts/Driven. They have good HU's in that range which are double din bluetooths!
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Old 4th July 2014, 09:15   #12551
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi,

I have installed 4*Sony Xplod XS-N16502 (Rated power 60W) on my Storme now the issue is even at slight volume the speakers start distorting so was considering to install an 4 channel amp.

I have zeroed down on JBL 504EZ and 804EZ can anyone suggest which one I should go for? any other better amp? Moreover would like to know is it required to bolt it down or can be kept under the co-driver seat?

Kindly recommend some shop in NCR.
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Old 5th July 2014, 23:10   #12552
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... I have installed 4*Sony Xplod XS-N16502 (Rated power 60W) on my Storme now the issue is even at slight volume the speakers start distorting so was considering to install an 4 channel amp. ...
Which HU do you have?

Are you sure the speakers are distorting? Or is it the HU? With an amp, you will only correct the HU distortion at high volume, not speaker distortion.

The JBL X646 would be appropriate. The other amp will make the speakers distort (too much power). Or get a Kenwood M846, or even a Sony 4-channel amp.
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Old 6th July 2014, 08:25   #12553
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Which HU do you have?

Are you sure the speakers are distorting? Or is it the HU? With an amp, you will only correct the HU distortion at high volume, not speaker distortion.

The JBL X646 would be appropriate. The other amp will make the speakers distort (too much power). Or get a Kenwood M846, or even a Sony 4-channel amp.
HU make is Blaupunkt no info on model number even checked the technical guide; it was bundled with the explorer edition kit.

I will correct the word distortion to burst. I believe it is the speakers as on adjusting the EQ to flat/classic it is somewhat diminishing but not considerably and itís occurring on very low volumes i.e. 10 to 12.

Thanks will consider the JBL X646 or Sony amp, one more thing is it required to bolt down the amp to keep it stable?
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Old 6th July 2014, 17:09   #12554
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HU make is Blaupunkt no info on model number even checked the technical guide; it was bundled with the explorer edition kit. ...
It will be there either on face plate, User Manual or top of the unit (can see it only when you take it out).

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... I will correct the word distortion to burst. I believe it is the speakers as on adjusting the EQ to flat/classic it is somewhat diminishing but not considerably and itís occurring on very low volumes i.e. 10 to 12. ...
If you mean "awaaz phat rahi hai", the word is not burst, as in "explode" (even though the brand is Xplod) - which is "phat gaya". "phatna" in Hindi is also to tear, in this case the harsh sound of something tearing, or something like "phata baans" - cracking. Well, that is typical distortion.

To check if the speakers are at fault, reduce bass at the equalizer, even going to 0 (use the graphic equalizer, not 'classic', 'rock', 'pop' etc. setting). This will reduce distortion when you raise volume. If the speakers are really at fault, adding an amp will not solve the problem - you have to change speakers.

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Originally Posted by priyanknauni View Post
... is it required to bolt down the amp to keep it stable?
Yes, unless you want a 'flying' amp whenever you go over a speed breaker without reducing speed! The best place to mount it in the Storme or Safari is under the driver's seat. Good installers mount it on a large 1/4" MDF board covered in felt material, and place below the seat. Since the board is larger than the amp base, it doesn't fly up on bumps.

Also, make sure the power cable is routed below the door sill, and the RCA and speaker cables along the central console (that has the gear lever). This will prevent induced electrical noise or 'alternator whine'.
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Old 6th July 2014, 17:40   #12555
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

DerAlte , thanks for your inputs and clearing out my all novice doubts.

I think i will use Olx for the installed speakers and will try to find some lower rms ones and by this way i can stay away from the 'flying' amp too.
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