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Old 18th August 2014, 20:03   #12631
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Thanks, i visited Motor concepts and he said he will give me options/audition while installation, he is the one who gave me option 6
Agree with @DerAlte.

These installers are frequented by ICE enthusiasts of all sorts, in the evenings and weekends. I live stone's throw from Driven so I know first-hand. Also, their's and their friends' cars are nothing less than demo vehicles. They should not need to touch your car for auditioning at all.

My suggestion would be drop by on a weekend and make sure you have time to spend. You will get to see and hear ICE being installed or auditioned in at least 5-6 vehicles with different budgets and configs. I know, luck plays some part in this but I am quite hopeful. Also, Lajpat Nagar and East of Kailash are not far from each other, so can easily give both/either of these a try next weekend or so.

Good Luck.
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Old 18th August 2014, 22:48   #12632
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Agree with @DerAlte.

These installers are frequented by ICE enthusiasts of all sorts, in the evenings and weekends. I live stone's throw from Driven so I know first-hand. Also, their's and their friends' cars are nothing less than demo vehicles. They should not need to touch your car for auditioning at all.

My suggestion would be drop by on a weekend and make sure you have time to spend. You will get to see and hear ICE being installed or auditioned in at least 5-6 vehicles with different budgets and configs. I know, luck plays some part in this but I am quite hopeful. Also, Lajpat Nagar and East of Kailash are not far from each other, so can easily give both/either of these a try next weekend or so.

Good Luck.
The best is to get it auditioned in your own car, since every car has different sound dynamics. Thats why I recommended him the same. Driven is good but after reading NikhilB's experience I wouldn't personally vouch for them. And also, the installer at MC is more interacting and helpful!
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Old 20th August 2014, 14:08   #12633
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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The best is to get it auditioned in your own car, since every car has different sound dynamics. ...
Correct, but some cars are not suitable for a drop in replacement (speakers mounted on OE spacers on the inner metal layer of the door) to audition the speakers. With these cars, the dealer has to patiently do it. Unfortunately, most dealers are in it only for money and forsake knowledge for BS talk. Many flatly refuse, since they don't want to "open the box".

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... installer at MC is more interacting and helpful!
Beware, their attempt at being helpful and interactive may not be a good sign. An "installer" is best silent, since it is the dealer who should help the buyer select. Installers don't spend long hours critically listening to music in cars. Hopefully the dealer does.
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Old 20th August 2014, 15:01   #12634
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Originally Posted by gaurav013 View Post
he said he will give me options/audition while installation
Audition in car audio is very difficult esp in the installation car, think practically, its not possible for any dealer or installer to unbox an equipment for a stranger unless he finds him as a potential buyer else the company has to provide a demo piece for them. The max they used to do is to allow their demo car or their previously installed cars (owners also has to agree, in most cases it will be their friends) to have a listening session. Do a research as much as possible based on the recommendations and install logs from several forums and finalise one or two and ask them for an audition.

In most of the cases the dealers will be biased to their stock brands and may tell others are all simply crap. If some of the brands are not available locally, you can get it shipped from the distributors / particular dealers (only trust worthy) from different forums / contacts and get it installed locally, I know a lot of installations done like this. Note : For warranty, you have to ship it back to the dealer from whom you have bought, but people who are after a particular product and the end result are ready to take that burden also. So think practically. Moreover, I stress again, review your decision to spend 60-90k for a setup with oem headunit.
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Old 20th August 2014, 15:58   #12635
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Audition in car audio is very difficult esp in the installation car, think practically, its not possible for any dealer or installer to unbox an equipment for a stranger unless he finds him as a potential buyer else the company has to provide a demo piece for them.
I agree, the best audition you can easily get is existing setups that are almost complete at the dealers or friends.

It is hence all the more important to visit multiple dealers and take notes to supplement your aural memory.
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Old 20th August 2014, 16:03   #12636
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visit multiple dealers and take notes to supplement your aural memory.
Moreover it gives an idea about the possibilities and getting more knowledge will help in finalising the equipment and its fun too. But people should do some research before this as no dealer will be able to give multiple demos, may be 2 or 3 max. Also expecting to audition in their own car is too much.

As I had mentioned before people should think practically before labelling any dealers as non-friendly or avoid like plague.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 20th August 2014 at 16:09.
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Old 20th August 2014, 20:10   #12637
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

So what did you finally get gaurav?
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Old 21st August 2014, 12:08   #12638
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Thanks a lot everyone, DevilwearsPrada, CMS, Navin, DerALite. 5hadow and all

Thanks to all of you I'm very clear on what to look for, how to evaluate, got some basics cleared also on my end, dampening importance, Components vs coaxial, which all showrooms to visit etc.

Visited over 8 shops and it really helped to further understand what all is available, price points etc.

The mistake I did last week was I visited some shops on Saturday & Sunday morning and none of them had cars available for audition as the cars that were getting work done would have been ready only by evening hence this week I will visit the same showrooms in the evening (sat-sun) to listen to finished products

I'm leaning towards the Kappa setup (~50K) as while focal (~75K) may be better but then it will bust the budget as rightfully pointed out, if one is spending so much then I should factor in the HU replacement also which I had not planned for. While the finalization will be done post some auditions this weekend

This is what I've finalized

Phase I (Aug End 2014) (50k)

- front components (powered by a 4 channel amp) (10-12K)
- Read coaxials (powered by the HU) (5-7K)
- 12 inches Subwoofer (sealed tapered enclosure to fit the boot) powered by the 4 channel amp (12-14K)
- Dampners 12 sheets (3 on each front door, 2 on each rear door and 2 in the boot) (10-12K)
- Amp kit etc (6K)

Phase II (~Oct 2014) (15K)

- mono block amp for powering the sub and using the remaining 2 channels to power the rear coaxial speakers (15K)

Phase III (~Dec 2014) (50K)

- HU change (50K)


Hence setup will be Phase I, II & III = ~ INR 120 K over the period of 4 months

Would appreciate your comments and expert suggestion on the above though process
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Old 21st August 2014, 13:42   #12639
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by gaurav013 View Post
This is what I've finalized

Phase I (Aug End 2014) (50k)

- front components (powered by a 4 channel amp) (10-12K)
- HU change (50K)
1. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
2. You sit in the front and sound stage should come from the front
3. This is YOUR money, YOUR music, and YOU should make the choice with YOUR ears don't let anyone's opinion colour yours.
4. A system must be balanced. A big sub with cheap front components or a Super expensive components with a 6" "subwoofer" will not sound balanced.
5. Bass energy is about 50% of the audio spectrum (Classical music the 50% point comes at about 300hz, with new electronic music 50% of the energy can be below 150Hz).

If your 4 ch. amp is 50W rms x 4, you would need at least 200W rms clean for a subwoofer, given that most car subwoofers do not directly radiate (except for free air rear deck mounted subs) into the cabin, we have some loss and hence we need to 3-4x the power (4-6db more) so typically need 500-800W to drive a subwoofer effectively.

I don't remember who, but someone once sent me this link. I might help explain a bit about speakers.
http://www.ht-audio.com/pages/SpeakerBasics.html

Last edited by navin : 21st August 2014 at 13:44.
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Old 21st August 2014, 16:10   #12640
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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~ INR 120 K over the period of 4 months
Just my thought, make sure that after 4 months you should not endup in a situation that you regret for having only a Kappa setup inspite of spending 1.2L.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 21st August 2014 at 16:11.
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Old 21st August 2014, 17:11   #12641
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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... make sure that ...
How, may one ask? An open-ended provocation without a concrete suggestion, like you did here, usually confuses / confounds people with no perceivable benefit, so please be more specific.

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... you should not endup in a situation that you regret for having only a Kappa setup inspite of spending 1.2L.
Unless he always thinks that "grass is greener on the other side", he won't! Are you trying to put doubts in his mind about Infinity Kappa? Or is Focal or some other brand (in the same price bracket as Infinity Kappa) in your opinion better than Infinity Kappa?

Thankfully Navin gave some rational advice to @gaurav013 earlier:
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... 3. This is YOUR money, YOUR music, and YOU should make the choice with YOUR ears don't let anyone's opinion colour yours. ...
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Old 21st August 2014, 17:30   #12642
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How, may one ask? An open-ended provocation without a concrete suggestion, like you did here, usually confuses / confounds people with no perceivable benefit, so please be more specific.

Unless he always thinks that "grass is greener on the other side", he won't! Are you trying to put doubts in his mind about Infinity Kappa? Or is Focal or some other brand (in the same price bracket as Infinity Kappa) in your opinion better than Infinity Kappa?

Thankfully Navin gave some rational advice to @gaurav013 earlier:
I am not biased towards any brand and I am not a dealer or seller of any of these. From my experience, for a budget of 1.2L (if you are ready to explore), you have a hell lot of options in the market that are FAR FAR BETTER than these usual suspects being recommended here as the best (I had pointed few better options in previous posts also). The most dangerous thing in audio is that the love towards one's setup ends when he/she is exposed to a better one, its true for all.
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Old 21st August 2014, 17:47   #12643
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I am not biased towards any brand and I am not a dealer or seller of any of these. From my experience, for a budget of 1.2L (if you are ready to explore), you have a hell lot of options in the market that are FAR FAR BETTER than these usual suspects being recommended here as the best (I had pointed few better options in previous posts also). The most dangerous thing in audio is that the love towards one's setup ends when he/she is exposed to a better one, its true for all.
Hi CMS : While i understand all have diff. music preferences but on a different note, if you were to work with this budget in 3 phases (50k in Phase I, followed by 15-20 K in phase II and remaining in Phase III) then what would go with looking at the other options available-best bang for buck in this budget ? I still have one week to finalize hence am still very open
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Old 21st August 2014, 18:53   #12644
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... for a budget of 1.2L ...
He will actually end up spending far less, as the prices he has assumed are much higher than street prices.

Quote:
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... (if you are ready to explore), you have a hell lot of options in the market that are FAR FAR BETTER than these usual suspects being recommended here as the best (I had pointed few better options in previous posts also) ...
There is nothing recommended as "the best" here (perhaps you have incorrectly read), as "the best" is very subjective. Almost everyone suggests what is available locally at a certain price point *with local service support*. One feels even more foolish when one buys fakes of some reputed brands, or has a dud in their hands when something goes wrong and there is no support available.

But of course, there are always a few people who suggest what they think is "the best", or they think they know everything and their opinion / suggestion is the best (they also usually get very upset when countered).

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... The most dangerous thing in audio is that the love towards one's setup ends when he/she is exposed to a better one, its true for all.
LOL Divorce rate is quite low in India, for sensible reasons! Unfortunately it is quite high in the software sector, because of the reason you have highlighted.

Yes, of course, one incrementally changes their ICE equipment over a period of years, when one is exposed to "better" aspects - resolution, phase fidelity, etc. BUT it is better one starts with something achievable rather than wait perpetually for that "best", or expecting something "better" is around the corner.

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Originally Posted by gaurav013 View Post
... best bang for buck in this budget ...
Probably getting Infinity Kappa components, and Infinity Kappa 120.9 sub (in a small sealed box) with an Infinity Four would give you a good combination from all viewpoints. Try it out at a JBL / Infinity dealer, with your own music. It would cost you about 30-33K in Phase 1. Then, check if higher cost ones from DLS, Morel, Focal, Rainbow or JL Audio gets you "better" sound (only your opinion counts).

Last edited by DerAlte : 21st August 2014 at 19:04.
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Old 21st August 2014, 20:15   #12645
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Probably getting Infinity Kappa components, and Infinity Kappa 120.9 sub (in a small sealed box) with an Infinity Four would give you a good combination from all viewpoints. Try it out at a JBL / Infinity dealer, with your own music. It would cost you about 30-33K in Phase 1. Then, check if higher cost ones from DLS, Morel, Focal, Rainbow or JL Audio gets you "better" sound (only your opinion counts).
Well, agree with this. Higher end components, especially two way setups between 10-20k sound too similar. Unless you are spending more than that and/or going for a three way, this will sound great.
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