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Old 7th February 2015, 14:29   #12811
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by HighwayofLife View Post
Q3: I'm planning on the Flux Audio BC 361, which is a 60W RMS 3-way Component Speaker system. Can this speaker no effectively be powered by a single channel (80W) of the Arc Audio amp, rather than even the bridged config? Obviously this would make installation easier and save me some big bucks.
Q4: I am going for a complete audiophile set-up primarily to play blues, jazz, and acoustic music (Eric Clapton and the like). This install will happen in a Scorpio. Will an Infinity Kappa 100.9w (10 inch sub) suffice, or is a 12 inch sub (such as the Rainbow DL-S 12) mandatory? Note that both the Infinity sub and the Rainbow sub mentioned have almost identical power rating
A3: Yes it can. Just remember that there are significant insertion losses in a passive crossover network ( ballpark 30 to 50% compared to an active setup), so the effective power delivered to the drivers will be that much lesser than what your amp will deliver. Further more, driver units (mid bass, mid range and tweeters) have their own efficiency levels (e.g. 90dB/W/m and above is considered really good). Also, listening at a particular SPL is a matter of personal choice.

The issue with quality audiophile, blue, jazz recordings is the massive dynamic range - typically 12 and above, which requires fast and dynamic amps capable of providing massive current/voltage swings. In comparison, modern pop, rock and EDM techno recordings (post Oasis) have a terrible dynamic range - 6 and below, i.e. they are heavily compressed recordings mostly operating at near clipping levels. In those cases it is a lot easier to produce a given SPL with minimum power, but at the expense of sound quality.

So what you need to make sure is the quality of the amps with above requirements, rather than their rated power output. Typical indicators of this quality are output current, maximum voltage swing at output, damping factor and the quality of output LC coil in a class D amp. (OFC copper in the coil, high quality capacitor etc). I have hand built several Class D amps over the last decade for home use and in some cases the cost of a single high quality output capacitor was as high as $50 a piece.

A4. For your listening choices, the lowest frequency note typically produced by a bass guitar is the low E (~41 Hz). The issue with in-door driver units is that they typically start rolling off at around 60 - 70Hz due to the laws of physics involved with it. You just need a slightly flatter response till about 40Hz or so. All the subs mentioned by you are an overkill for your listening choices and area of application, in fact they will 'slow down' and muddy the response.

You either need to opt for a better quality sub or consider a Focal iBus20 / 30 type of solution. I'm using one for similar listening choices as yours and fully satisfied with it. Someone recently brought to my attention the Focal DSA 500 RT which seems to be an even better solution for yours (as well as my) case.

Hope this helps and feel free to message me if you need more specific inputs!
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Old 7th February 2015, 16:38   #12812
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Something like this (pic from Wikipedia): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...gs_speaker.jpg
Thanks. That's what I had with JBL CS1215B. I have banana plugs but difficult to find such socket.

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
For car use I would strongly recommend using a Speakon Connector. See link below.

http://static.rapidonline.com/catalo...67753P01WL.jpg

When it comes to banana plugs I like Wireworld. Super VFM
http://assets1.listeningpost.co.nz/a...nana_Plugs.jpg
Thanks. Speakon connector is a great option. It is even better than banana plugs because when I disconnect subwoofer, I have to put insulation tape to banana plugs. I will try to find Speakon connector locally. Any suggestions to find them (both male/female connectors) online?
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Old 7th February 2015, 19:31   #12813
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by mukeshgoel View Post


Thanks. Speakon connector is a great option. It is even better than banana plugs because when I disconnect subwoofer, I have to put insulation tape to banana plugs. I will try to find Speakon connector locally. Any suggestions to find them (both male/female connectors) online?
Try ebay. They are available for a lot of 4 piece of each male and female connectors. Contact the seller and try to find out if he can sell 1 or 2 pieces.
http://www.ebay.in/itm/Pole-Speakon-...item4633c6919b
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Old 8th February 2015, 01:05   #12814
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by HighwayofLife View Post
Hi All, I have an Arc Audio XDI 804 Class D Amp that produces 145 W if two channels are bridged.
Q1: Can I use a bridged configuration to power my 3 way component speaker system.
Q2: If yes, do I need to split the front RCAs from the HU using a Y splitter and feed 4 RCAs into the amp? Just curious to know if this will reduce quality of output. My idea is to save some money on my install and not buy a complete set of new amps for my upgrade, since I already have a 4 channel Class D amp.
Q3: I'm planning on the Flux Audio BC 361, which is a 60W RMS 3-way Component Speaker system. Can this speaker no effectively be powered by a single channel (80W) of the Arc Audio amp, rather than even the bridged config? Obviously this would make installation easier and save me some big bucks.
Q4: I am going for a complete audiophile set-up primarily to play blues, jazz, and acoustic music (Eric Clapton and the like). This install will happen in a Scorpio. Will an Infinity Kappa 100.9w (10 inch sub) suffice, or is a 12 inch sub (such as the Rainbow DL-S 12) mandatory? Note that both the Infinity sub and the Rainbow sub mentioned have almost identical power rating
1. Yes, you can do that, but like you said your speakers have a rated power handling capability of 60 watts RMS per channel, so there is no need to feed them double the amount of required power and then some more.

2. Yes, a Y-splitter will be required if you want to bridge channels and you amp does not have the internal splitting feature(some amps need only two channel inputs to give four channels of output!). I think the gain needs to be set higher if a channel is split!

3. If you mean giving 80 watts to right channel and 80 watts to left channel then Yes, 80 watts is good power to run a speaker set rated at 60 watts, a little headroom is always welcome! Kill questions 1 and 2 if you take this route.

4. While I have never auditioned either of these two subs, I think in an SUV of the size of a Scorpio, a 12 inch sub is what you should look at, they have that little extra thump, kick, bang, zing, zang, whatever you call it, over 10 inchers, which makes them good all rounders.
The Kappa 120.9 is the sub to go for in that price range. The Rainbow DL-S12 is something that's being used by quite a few reputed installers here and there, knowing a few of them I am sure the sub is good, I personally have never auditioned it at all! Any particular reason for wanting a 10 inch sub woofer?

Also, if you're keen on an audiophile set up, I think you should get yourself an active capable HU, if you already don't have one and go active. A passive 3-way set up is hardly alive and I have not come across too many people opting for it.

But, the only way you can go 3-way active+sub is through the Pioneer P99rs, which costs a bomb, or buy a DSP, which again costs nothing less than a bomb. Plus you will need more amplified channels, hence, more amplifiers!

And, if you're keen on audiophile grade SQ, you should definitely get rid of that class D amp, I know class D amps have improved over the years, but they still cant match SQ attributes of class AB amps.

I run a regular 2-way set up (completely self installed!), so I am not really the one you should trust, just that I am keen on going 2-way active with a pair of widebanders(ditching the tweeters!) and have read up a lot from where ever I could. My gyan on active-passive is limited, gurus can pitch in more info!

PS: I am a cult Scorpio fan, so much so that I made my dad buy one as a 14 year old, but frankly the Scorpio is not an ICE friendly car, poor plastics, weird stock speaker locations, and that joke of a dashboard hardly do any justice to expensive audio equipment!
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Old 9th February 2015, 10:44   #12815
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by mukeshgoel View Post
Thanks. Speakon connector is a great option. It is even better than banana plugs because when I disconnect subwoofer, I have to put insulation tape to banana plugs. I will try to find Speakon connector locally. Any suggestions to find them (both male/female connectors) online?
I believe S.U.N Media in Mumbai carries them. Google them, call them talk to Nafiza.
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Old 15th February 2015, 19:33   #12816
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

Need help from Gurus, I am getting Blaupunkt Philadelphia installed in my Rapid through showroom guys just to be on safer side for warranty etc. dealer is telling me something about one link cable which runs from steering to the system to retain the steering controls and asking 8K for that cable, my doubt is is it true and really that cable costs that much? 49K for the system and 8K for the cable I am really not able to digest that. Thanks in advance.
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Old 16th February 2015, 15:13   #12817
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
... 49K for the system and 8K for the cable I am really not able to digest that. ...
No, it doesn't make sense. Also, isn't 49K the MRP of the system?

Please call up Blaupunkt customer care and ask them.
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Old 16th February 2015, 22:57   #12818
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
Need help from Gurus, I am getting Blaupunkt Philadelphia installed in my Rapid through showroom guys just to be on safer side for warranty etc. dealer is telling me something about one link cable which runs from steering to the system to retain the steering controls and asking 8K for that cable, my doubt is is it true and really that cable costs that much? 49K for the system and 8K for the cable I am really not able to digest that. Thanks in advance.
If you're going for the Philadelphia just for the sake of warranty, you can get it done outside too. It will not affect the warranty because no wires need to be spliced to install this HU or any other HU these days, ther are connectors and harness adapters available for most cars and Head Units in the market.

As far as the steering interface is concerned, its called the Connects 2 interface, and it costs between 4-6k in the market, so 8k is definitely a lot.

Also, I have a feeling the Philadelphia shouldn't need a Connects 2 interface because it is specifically made for VW-Skoda group cars, and even comes with an inbuilt CANBUS interface, I am not very sure though.
You may want to go through this http://www.blaupunktdirect.co.uk/car...-specific.html
49k is way too high a price for this HU, the street prices are a good 5-6k lower.

While the HU would look and feel very good in your dash, don't expect any improvement in sound quality from this HU, in fact its not worth that kind of money IMHO.

PS: I just noticed you live in Bangalore, If you want, I can get you in line with someone who will help you source and install any HU of you're choice without hampering your warranty in anyway.

Last edited by 599gto : 16th February 2015 at 23:04.
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Old 17th February 2015, 00:47   #12819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
Need help from Gurus, I am getting Blaupunkt Philadelphia installed in my Rapid through showroom guys just to be on safer side for warranty etc. dealer is telling me something about one link cable which runs from steering to the system to retain the steering controls and asking 8K for that cable, my doubt is is it true and really that cable costs that much? 49K for the system and 8K for the cable I am really not able to digest that. Thanks in advance.
Having used a Blaupunkt touch-screen HU from the same family as the Philadelphia, I agree with 599gto- these are very poor quality HUs with a pathetic touch-screen interface. I've recently shifted to Pioneer and there is a world of difference in quality and audiophile features. I'm using a Pioneer 5790BT, which costs just Rs. 22,000, though it does not have navigation. But in my view, navigation is an unnecessary extra in an HU, what with Sygic offline navigation app being available for both iOS and Android
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Old 19th February 2015, 19:19   #12820
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

Folks,

My new Honda City needs a speaker upgrade. I had a Blaupunkt Sandiego 530 installed by the dealer as the HU but the stock speakers are awful (SV model).

I am thinking of going for a pair of component speakers in the front at first and then upgrade the rear speakers a bit later. I don't have plans to add an amp and subwoofer now, but would like to keep my options open

My preferences are good bass and clear sound (in that order).

I visited a couple of accessory shops and was quoted around 7k for Focal R165S2 and around 6500 for Hertz DSK 165.3. I was advised to go with focal by the accessory shop (yet to take an audition)

I have no idea how good these are and need some help in deciding between the two (or looking at alternate options). My budget is about 9k
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Old 20th February 2015, 16:12   #12821
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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... I visited a couple of accessory shops and was quoted around 7k for Focal R165S2 and around 6500 for Hertz DSK 165.3. I was advised to go with focal by the accessory shop (yet to take an audition) ...
There is no good or bad in comparison, each has it's own sound signature. Auditioning is the best way forward since it should be a decision your ears make.

Of these, Hertz can be shrill / bright for many, so Focal is definitely a better choice.

Others in this range are Infinity Reference, Bull, Auditor, Morel, etc. If you bargain well, you can get Infinity Kappa in your budget.
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Old 20th February 2015, 17:13   #12822
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Originally Posted by KRN View Post
Folks,

My new Honda City needs a speaker upgrade. I had a Blaupunkt Sandiego 530 installed by the dealer as the HU but the stock speakers are awful (SV model).

I am thinking of going for a pair of component speakers in the front at first and then upgrade the rear speakers a bit later. I don't have plans to add an amp and subwoofer now, but would like to keep my options open

My preferences are good bass and clear sound (in that order).

I visited a couple of accessory shops and was quoted around 7k for Focal R165S2 and around 6500 for Hertz DSK 165.3. I was advised to go with focal by the accessory shop (yet to take an audition)

I have no idea how good these are and need some help in deciding between the two (or looking at alternate options). My budget is about 9k
Not too further high up in the price range is the Focal Integration line, look at the Focal ISS165, I have this set installed in my 2012 Honda City, along with a set of Focal Access series co-axials for the rear. Both sets running off the stock HU(which is horrible by any standards!).

Though the bass from these is nothing to talk about, they are high on clarity and sound good for most. Some might find them a little on the brighter side, but I have had no complains from any Focal set ever. The tweeters play nice and smooth, and come with very good looking pods to be mounted on the dash, however, the tweeters are bigger than what most stock tweeter locations would accommodate.

Also, a good pair of components will reproduce decent low frequencies only when powered through an amplifier. Because you have already got yourself an after market HU, adding an amp will not be too difficult, and will make the speakers sing nicely.

Hertz and Infinity are very bright IMHO, specially the entry level sets. Focal is on the dynamic side while brands like Morel, Rainbow are laid back, soft sounding in common language.

Happy shopping!
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Old 20th February 2015, 17:56   #12823
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post

Of these, Hertz can be shrill / bright for many, so Focal is definitely a better choice.

Others in this range are Infinity Reference, Bull, Auditor, Morel, etc. If you bargain well, you can get Infinity Kappa in your budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 599gto View Post

Hertz and Infinity are very bright IMHO, specially the entry level sets. Focal is on the dynamic side while brands like Morel, Rainbow are laid back, soft sounding in common language.
Thanks for your suggestions. Based on what I am reading, I am shortlisting auditor and integration series from Focal and Reference and Kappa series from Infinity. Will audition them before purchase

This may be a dumb question: Can someone explain what bright really means - does it refer to hearing the high notes (Treble) well? As a personal preference, I would probably lean towards speakers that have better bass (without loss of clarity)
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Old 20th February 2015, 18:16   #12824
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... what bright really means - does it refer to hearing the high notes (Treble) well? As a personal preference, I would probably lean towards speakers that have better bass (without loss of clarity)
* "Bright" is excessive, unnaturally loud high frequencies. Like "bright colors"

* "Clarity" and "good bass" are mutually exclusive, really. In good speakers, there should be a good balance between the two

* Most of "clarity" is actually the ability to reproduce frequencies in the original proportion in the mid and high frequency range. That way, "bright" actually takes away "clarity". So does "excessive bass", which makes the mid-frequencies "muddy" preventing vocals from coming out properly

* "Better bass" is a wish that people express when they have experienced "not enough" of it - a kind of craving for missing lower notes or a kind of kick in the stomach (ok, a light one but nevertheless)

* Lack of bass or not enough bass also can be an indication of the need for damping the doors. Road rumbles which intrude into the cabin via the door outer panel actually occupy the same frequency range as bass, and masks whatever bass the mid-bass produces. Damping the inside of the outer layer of the doors does wonders!
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Old 20th February 2015, 19:02   #12825
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My car has a twin amp set up- a 4 channel Ground Zero that feeds the front and rear door components and a Cerwin Wega mono that feeds the sub in the boot. The amps are placed below the front seats. The HU is Pioneer AVH P5150 DVD.
The complete installation was a Do-It-Ourselves.

The set up was working flawlessly for more than a year now, but I'm facing an issue since last week. There is a random high volume distortion noise. The noise is very loud and there is no method to the madness; the occurrence is totally random and the noise is unbearably loud. It stops only if I turn off the HU; volume control has no effect on it.

What might be the issue?
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