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Old 7th November 2015, 02:12   #12991
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Yes you are right. Preference is a choice. You are on a budget.
And this is one of the option. The one i posted works.
And no one can say actually its wrong.

Just remember the speakers should be 4 ohms each minimum not less than that.
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Old 7th November 2015, 02:23   #12992
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If you load an amp parallel with two 4ohm speakers, it becomes 2ohms. So any normal amp will struggle for a 2ohm than a 4ohm load, thereby it will clip very early (load is not constant too). Its not at all a recommended connection procedure esp when the amp is used in bridged mode. The after effects will start with a fried tweeter.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 7th November 2015 at 02:29.
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Old 7th November 2015, 02:42   #12993
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You already know when you bridge the amp into 4 ohms subwoofer the channels are running 2 ohms each. If you don't believe me why don't you check the user manual for the amp. You can easily bridge the front and the rear to power two subs. Or run 4 speakers in the front and sub in the rear as it's the same as 2 sub option for the amp. In this way you get real value for your money

This does put a stress on the amp when you push full volume. The only thing you need to watch out is the over heating due to poor ventilation.

Proper installation with true 4 awg wires and grounding will make sure nothing goes wrong.

There is a lot of myth that's going around in car audio. This is due to fact the poor installation and user abuse can bring about real bad scenarios in car audio.

I have installed not less than 500 setup like yours.

Originally i would suggest 4 channel and a mono.

And i surely don't want to get into clipping technicalities as it's beyond the subject of discussion here.

You can just power the front channel.
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Old 7th November 2015, 03:02   #12994
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Seems it depends on the priority, if somebody dont care about clipping an amp and the distortion, noting to say about. Are you saying the normal amps are stable at 2ohms \ less and can play w/o any distortion? This doesnt need to play at full volume, even at 50% it will distort.

The end result will be a typical taxi kinda sound with same intensity from all the speakers. Better would be to power just the front speakers and bridge for the sub (if the OP doesnt want to go for a mono).

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 7th November 2015 at 03:13.
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Old 7th November 2015, 11:04   #12995
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Clipping the amps?
Distortion?
Have you actually heard or installed a setup like i have mentioned to write the fate of this setup? On what experience basis are you coming up with these theories?
I am just asking this bcoz this is a viable option in all cases and is normally done.
With proper gain matching you can play to the full volume of the amp without clipping. I am talking about audible clipping.

There are few variables here.
At 2 ohms the amp produces more power. And the higher sensitivity of the speakers means they will play louder on lower volume. So even as per your theory 50% volume would be loud enough. And i have no idea why tweeters would blow on a decent set of components if its installed in this way.
It won't be taxi kinda sound? The OEM and after market system installed in the car is often left with fader in the center by most people. So you are telling me that these system sounds horrible?

Front speakers which are components in this case are generally louder than rear bcoz of the higher sensitivity. Also the tweeters are placed higher so it's more prominent than the co axial which is installed in less than ideal location. In the end you will feel the rear speakers are like a rear fill which in my opinion is enjoyable to general population.

What i can agree with is about people's priority, as with 4 speakers options you won't have any kind of fader control. For example if you have older people sitting in the back he won't be about up fade it all the way to the front do he can't enjoy from driver seat without irritating the rear passengers.


Please don't pass judgment on 2 ohms load. Some of the best sounding in terms of SQ is the Focal KRX2 component speakers. They come as 2ohm voice coil only. So as per you those tweeters will blow everytime and will be distorting?
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Old 7th November 2015, 12:01   #12996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by general_neo View Post
Yes you are right. Preference is a choice. You are on a budget.
And this is one of the option. The one i posted works.
And no one can say actually its wrong.

Just remember the speakers should be 4 ohms each minimum not less than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post
Seems it depends on the priority, if somebody dont care about clipping an amp and the distortion, noting to say about. Are you saying the normal amps are stable at 2ohms \ less and can play w/o any distortion? This doesnt need to play at full volume, even at 50% it will distort.

The end result will be a typical taxi kinda sound with same intensity from all the speakers. Better would be to power just the front speakers and bridge for the sub (if the OP doesnt want to go for a mono).
Thanks a lot general_neo and ::CMS:: for your inputs. My front components are Infinity Reference 6500cx which are 3 ohms.

Didn't quite understand the importance of ohms and few of terminologies which you used, I just know that ohms refers to "resistance"

Now that we have finalized the parts, I have a query as to how the wiring would be routed. I think I will install the amp on the back seat (rear part in the boot), so that I will be able to adjust the controls on it later on when I get a hang of things. Will the wiring from the HU / speakers go through floor mats or from the roof? Because I have done floor lamination from Maruti dealer himself. I dont want to rip it off just for passing wires.
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Old 7th November 2015, 23:28   #12997
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Instead of arguing try to update yourself what are those and how it affects an audio chain. Installing 500+ setups wont give anything, here in bangalore I have seen people have been doing the same as they were doing years back during their initial days and says "the best".

I was using this wiring when I was a novice and I clearly know how it sounds, sorry to say ITS HORRIBLE > PERIOD, felt fine during that time.

Educate yourself how an amp responds to different kind of loads and whats the imp of amp matching, here you are purposefully making it more unstable. Find yourself what are the different ways clipping can happen in an audio chain starting from the source\HU and why the tweeter cannot handle a DC. Moreover I think there is no point in telling all these if somebody cannot identify when an amp clips or distorts.

I remember the similar wiring was there in Akai's "HT" with 4 speakers around 15\18years back which inspired me to try in car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by general_neo View Post
Clipping the amps?
Distortion?
Have you actually heard or installed a setup like i have mentioned to write the fate of this setup? On what experience basis are you coming up with these theories?
I am just asking this bcoz this is a viable option in all cases and is normally done.
With proper gain matching you can play to the full volume of the amp without clipping. I am talking about audible clipping.

There are few variables here.
At 2 ohms the amp produces more power. And the higher sensitivity of the speakers means they will play louder on lower volume. So even as per your theory 50% volume would be loud enough. And i have no idea why tweeters would blow on a decent set of components if its installed in this way.
It won't be taxi kinda sound? The OEM and after market system installed in the car is often left with fader in the center by most people. So you are telling me that these system sounds horrible?

Front speakers which are components in this case are generally louder than rear bcoz of the higher sensitivity. Also the tweeters are placed higher so it's more prominent than the co axial which is installed in less than ideal location. In the end you will feel the rear speakers are like a rear fill which in my opinion is enjoyable to general population.

What i can agree with is about people's priority, as with 4 speakers options you won't have any kind of fader control. For example if you have older people sitting in the back he won't be about up fade it all the way to the front do he can't enjoy from driver seat without irritating the rear passengers.


Please don't pass judgment on 2 ohms load. Some of the best sounding in terms of SQ is the Focal KRX2 component speakers. They come as 2ohm voice coil only. So as per you those tweeters will blow everytime and will be distorting?

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 7th November 2015 at 23:42.
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Old 8th November 2015, 09:41   #12998
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Cms, i wasn't arguing but educating you. Bcoz you missed my point, Proper gain matching. You probably have only heard the poor setups in bangalore as you said. You also agree you were a novice. I am not a novice. Fyi i can actually say if an amp is clipping even without connecting speakers or anything to the output and feeding only the signal. Not all amps but many cheap ones. I have educated very well on how amp responds to load and build setups by understanding those principles. I bet you never actually measured a speakers impedance through its frequency response spectrum. I will not claim I know everything so let's give space to others to discuss thier issues and we can msg in private. I hope you don't take the above as disrespect. We are all doing this for fun and to help another.
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Old 8th November 2015, 11:31   #12999
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A typical dealers and installers answer.. I am not interested to do any private messaging and I clearly know what I talk.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 8th November 2015 at 12:00.
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Old 8th November 2015, 12:10   #13000
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Just so that we conclude. I know we have ton of internet experts who clearly knows what they talk about. And i am not your typical dealer or installer. I talk the talk and walk the walk... i can show it to you if you would like. Peace bro... take it lightly.
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Old 8th November 2015, 13:12   #13001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigadier View Post
Will the wiring from the HU / speakers go through floor mats or from the roof? Because I have done floor lamination from Maruti dealer himself. I dont want to rip it off just for passing wires.
In my Swift it has gone from the floor, under the mats. Make sure wiring is properly covered and grounding is done so that when car goes for washing etc nothing happens to your system.

Find a good installer to do this work very neatly, in 6 years I have never seen any wiring in my car and till date even forgot it was actually put there. Makes you realize what a good work was done.

Spend extra but do not compromise on wiring quality at all.
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Old 9th November 2015, 20:44   #13002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heydj View Post
In my Swift it has gone from the floor, under the mats. Make sure wiring is properly covered and grounding is done so that when car goes for washing etc nothing happens to your system.

Find a good installer to do this work very neatly, in 6 years I have never seen any wiring in my car and till date even forgot it was actually put there. Makes you realize what a good work was done.

Spend extra but do not compromise on wiring quality at all.
Thanks @::CMS:: ,@ general_neo , @heydj for your inputs. I have ordered Blaupunkt GTA 470 SF - 4 channel(840W) amp. Waiting for it to get delivered. Will get it installed and also buy a sub. I have decided that I will audition the subs at the installer's place and then make a choice. There are not many shops in Pune which allow auditioning of the stuff . Pune BHPians can you recommend any shop who has good installers ? My recent experience at car-ax was decent, but the shop over-prices all the stuff. I also plan to do damping of front doors atleast, as there is a lot of road noise and tyre noise creeping in.
One question to heydj, where did you connect your grounding wire in your swift? I read on net that one option is to drill a hole in body and connect it there. I seriously do not want to drill any holes in car's body.
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Old 9th November 2015, 21:05   #13003
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1. Your Car: 2014 alto k10

2. Your current setup (If any): stock head unit. stock 4" front speakers

3. Your Budget: ideally 10,000, but may be increased

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? I drive 80% of the time

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): country, classic rock

Additional Information: mostly it is low volume music for me

6. Are you ready to sacrifice your boot space/modify door panels? : Not ready to sacrifice boot space. Don't want to modify front door panels, rear door panels may be modified.

_________________

My car is about to complete one year in a few days. I have a few questions for the gurus before I embark on an audio upgrade mission. Here is my plan - please give your opinions.

Front speakers: I intend to replace stock speakers with 4" component speakers. The new speakers should fit in the existing enclosures, I hope that is possible. I need the best midrange and high frequencies possible, and also the lowest frequency they can safely handle. I don't want to install tweeters separately, so I will be looking at three-way speakers? If yes, what are the product recommendations?

Rear speakers: This will involve door panel cutting. Once again, 4" speakers here. I need the low-frequencies for rear fill, in order to add ambience and depth to my forward soundstage. What are my options here? Can I use the stock speakers to serve my purpose?

Subwoofer: I am not sure if I want this, because boot space is a constraint. I read that powered subs are space-saving, but they come with an integrated amp but I will need a separate amp for my front components - defeats the purpose I think.

Amplifier: The amp should be able to channel midrange and high frequencies to the front speakers, lowest frequency to the front speakers which they can safely handle - the idea is to allow some bass to filter from my front speakers and restrict my sub (if I get one) to low bass that is very difficult to localize - and low-frequencies in the rear speakers for rear fill. The amp should be compact and I am thinking of installing it below front passenger seat.

Last edited by wishnipon : 9th November 2015 at 21:12.
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Old 9th November 2015, 21:19   #13004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wishnipon View Post
1. Your Car: 2014 alto k10

2. Your current setup (If any): stock head unit. stock 4" front speakers

3. Your Budget: ideally 10,000, but may be increased

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? I drive 80% of the time

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): country, classic rock

Additional Information: mostly it is low volume music for me

6. Are you ready to sacrifice your boot space/modify door panels? : Not ready to sacrifice boot space. Don't want to modify front door panels, rear door panels may be modified.

_________________
.
If you do not want tweeters then forget components and get 3 way coaxials. If boot is less and you on budget then get coaxials with good bass so that to some extent woofer not needed. Look at Rockford punch series coaxials, they can work without amp. In my car they are pretty loud and punchy without amp.

Unless you listen to trance music these should be ok but not as clear as components.

With money saved get some damping done.
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Old 9th November 2015, 21:21   #13005
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Please suggest among the following two options for the VW Polo :

Option 1
Head Unit - Dynavin N6
Front Speakers - Focal IS-165 VW Components
Rear Speakers - Polk Audio DB691 6x9
Subwoofer - Blaupunkt GTb 8200 Active Subwoofer
Amplifier - None

Note: Dynavin N6 has already proven its worth and almost everyone who has upgraded is extremely happy with the SQ because of the inbuilt high end DSP.

The front speakers will be replaced with the Focal IS-165 VW two way components speakers with integrated crossover. The reason I want to go with these is because focal have specially made these for VW cars. So it is just plug and play,no wire cutting whatsoever.

The rear speakers will be upgraded to Polk Audio DB691 6x9 since I already have a pair which I had installed in my Chevy Cruze. Subwoofer will be the Blaupunkt GTb 8200 which comes with inbuilt amplifier so I don't want to install an additional amplifier.

Option 2
Head Unit - JVC KW-V41BT Double Din
Front Speakers - Focal IS-165 VW Components
Rear Speakers - Polk Audio DB691 6x9
Subwoofer - Sony XS-NW12022E
Amplifier - Sony Xplod XM-N1004 4 Channel/Blaupunkt EMA 455 4 Channel

The Dilemma :
1. Which option is better and why?
2. Which option would provide a better sound ?

The reason I want to go for the option 2 is because i'll be able to save approximately 30k if I choose the JVC over Dynavin but at the same time I don't like the mess of an amplifier and I am also not very sure if i'll be able to retain the steering mounted controls, which is why I am considering the option 1. Personally I am not very comfortable with adding an amplifier but I also don't want to compromise on the the SQ.
So please suggest which option go for.
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