Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th September 2009, 23:26   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
shuvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,895
Thanked: 283 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
Flush-mounting them in the doors is really a one-way street for me, I can't go back to a-pillar after that. So need to be absolutely deadsure that this is indeed a better place
Why would that be? If it's due to the modifications needed on the panel, can you not first try out the door position(s) by sticking the tweets with double-sided tape?
shuvc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 10:50   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Why would that be? If it's due to the modifications needed on the panel, can you not first try out the door position(s) by sticking the tweets with double-sided tape?
Yeah I could try that (surface-mounting) on doors, just hope that double tape sticks for at least 2-3 days while i listen and listen to make up my mind! I've so far struggled to keep the tape stuck to either A-pillar, or the tweeter.
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 11:03   #18
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
Illusions are universally termed as laidback, I am finding them a bit too bright (the tweeters pinch and pierce my ears on sufficiently loud volumes).

Secondly, I feel that some frequencies are rolling off or are missing the necessary decibels.

The tweeters are temporarily mounted at base of A-pillar (resting on dash

1. Can you read anything blantantly wrong in my description as above? Anything I am not doing right?

2. Could bumping up the component gains from the amp a little bit help

3. Is smearing a big reason for this perceived harshness (ear-pinching) of the tweeters?

4. Lastly, should I first try going active

5. A bonus question for the gurus- is it true that some amount of phase cancellation is inevitable when 2 mid-basses are firing at each other?
1. The illusions I have heard were also too bright for me but the XO I got had a -6db setting (either that or a +3 and -3db - the diffference being 6db) and that worked after we tricked the Alpine 650.

2. upping the gains wont change the balance.

3. smearing has other effects. It might make the treble harsher but more likely it will cause a funny phasey effect where you will find that the image is not right.

4. going active can change the balance

5. the phase canellation will happen in the lower midbass (depending on width fo the car) but really you wont hear it. If you had 2 subs firing at each other it would be another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
The switch is there, but seems to not help matters much even when used at -3db setting (if tweeters are on-axis). Although, -3db setting works wonders for off-axis placement (on A-pillar's base).

DA, if you were me, would you experiment with an active set-up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post

Yes, I am all prepared for XO modification - although I'm a total noob in hi-fi audio, but somehow feel that I just need to level down the power going to tweeters to make truce with my speakers. Could you please point me to the right direction?
without a schematic do not change the XO. However XOs are pretty simple so the schematic can be traced.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 12:15   #19
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Thanks Navin, I was waiting for your feedback and really appreciate it. There are couple of things I need to experiment with (including wiring tweeters out of phase) today, following which i can post the results and ask for more help.

One more thing, the sound of guitar distortion (on all metal/heavy metal songs) sounds way too distorted on tweeters (at respectably higher volumes). Is this an indication that I'm feeding too much power to tweeters?

Once I've dealt with the tweeter harshness- there is another issue at hand. On some favourite songs I can feel that some instruments are not heard at all, or are faintly audible. Looks like some frequencies are rolled off (most likely around 3k-5k band). Am I witnessing a hole in FR somewhere, and finally, do you think I would be complicating things too much if I were to use an RTA to figure out what's going wrong? (Getting access to an RTA is going to be the biggest complication )

Last edited by greenh0rn : 14th September 2009 at 12:21. Reason: added one more symptom/clue
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 13:40   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Set the one of the tweeter out of phase and on set at -3db on crossover. Try doing this with the TA on and off, considering the midbass. That way you would can judge where you image stands, whether it's being pulled towards left or right with Tweeter in phase and out phase.
And ya go out and buy the album The Very best Dire Straits, got some great very engineered tracks with good kick drum and guitar work, tracks like So far away, Private Investigation, brothers in Arms.
It did help a lot in determining where I wanted my image and vocals to be.

Quote:
Once I've dealt with the tweeter harshness- there is another issue at hand. On some favourite songs I can feel that some instruments are not heard at all, or are faintly audible. Looks like some frequencies are rolled off (most likely around 3k-5k band). Am I witnessing a hole in FR somewhere, and finally, do you think I would be complicating things too much if I were to use an RTA to figure out what's going wrong? (Getting access to an RTA is going to be the biggest complication )
EQ my friend make use of the EQ. you can get certain things right if not almost everything right due to limitation of bands.

Last edited by Invinsible : 14th September 2009 at 13:46.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 15:14   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
And ya go out and buy the album The Very best Dire Straits, got some great very engineered tracks with good kick drum and guitar work, tracks like So far away, Private Investigation, brothers in Arms.
A bit OT, Sultans of Swing: The very best of Dire Straits was the first ever disc I bought online on what was then called Largest Online Shopping mall in India, Buy and Send Gifts to India (using my first credit card) circa July 2001!

I don't mind EQing, but having an RTA would really simplify the matters.
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 16:30   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,885 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
One more thing, the sound of guitar distortion (on all metal/heavy metal songs) sounds way too distorted on tweeters

On some favourite songs I can feel that some instruments are not heard at all, or are faintly audible. Looks like some frequencies are rolled off (most likely around 3k-5k band).
it is more likely that the midbass cone breakup is adding to the distortion the other senario could be that the Q of the tweeter XO (for reasons of tweeter protection) is set too high and the XO's ringing is adding to the music.

a hole might well me an inverted phase or a placement problem.

the car is not an easy enviroment for good sound. thankfully our brains are distracted with ambient sounds and hence do not always get alarmed by the deficiencies of car audio systems.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 17:02   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
it is more likely that the midbass cone breakup is adding to the distortion the other senario could be that the Q of the tweeter XO (for reasons of tweeter protection) is set too high and the XO's ringing is adding to the music.

a hole might well me an inverted phase or a placement problem.
Sigh! At the end of the day, I have to, just have to make a pilgrimage to the land of Sheikh Farid, treasurer of Emperor Jehangir, to get things sorted. Bhai LBM, please keep Saturday or Sunday free for me!
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 17:05   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Sure sir...Welcome to the Faridabad !!!!
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 20:04   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Guys an important and critical update- I just reversed the polarity of passenger-side tweeter and the harshness is totally gone!! This is an amazing discovery, I even readjusted the tweeters to make them more on-axis than ever (one is firing straight and direct at me, while the other (driver side) is <30 degrees of me), and pumping up the volume there is no harshness!

I just listened to 3-4 songs so far and clarity of speakers now is a revelation! Earlier I couldn't crank up the volume above 22 (the max is 33), because of tweeter harshness, now I can take it all the way to 26 and all I hear is pulsating, throbbing, car-full of music, no ear-pinching brightness!!

Now just need to give it more of a earful - listen to some metal/heavy metal (Metallica, Staind, GNR) and see if I still need to worry about going active, going off-axis or modifying my passive XOs. So far, everything looks quite promising and I finally enjoyed listening to my set up today!

Now just one quick question to the gurus, will it matter if I reverse the polarity of driver side tweeter 'instead of' passenger-side? I wanted to try it today for myself, but had ran out of time and also the sky got too dark.

Last edited by greenh0rn : 14th September 2009 at 20:05.
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 20:10   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
frankmehta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,866
Thanked: 2,231 Times
Default

anything that sounds good holds true rishi. Just enjoy the music. If you place ALL your speakers on one side of the car, and YOU like it (you are the one paying for all of it), then so be it. That's your preference.
Enjoy music without being too technical. It's the best way to roll ;-)
frankmehta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 20:23   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
anything that sounds good holds true rishi. Just enjoy the music. If you place ALL your speakers on one side of the car, and YOU like it (you are the one paying for all of it), then so be it. That's your preference. It's the best way to roll ;-)
Yeah man, anyways my tastes are simple, I am easily satisfied with the best Btw, seems like these Electras truly deserve their reputation!
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 20:36   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
abhinav.gupta88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delhi , India
Posts: 4,087
Thanked: 308 Times
Default

Finally.
Congrats Rishi.
Enjoy the thing.
don't think about more polarity changes.
Pack your equipment ( tools etc).

Listen to music and enjoy it
abhinav.gupta88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 20:48   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
ramie2400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,900
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

While installing components one has to play with all the 6pairs of wires connected to the crossover,buy just connecting the +ive/-ive wires on the said points wont give you the SQ your searching after installing the components.

Congrats greenhorn on getting the stuff installed Happy Iceing enjoy the electras.
ramie2400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2009, 22:41   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 393
Thanked: 39 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Finally.
Congrats Rishi.
Listen to music and enjoy it
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
While installing components one has to play with all the 6pairs of wires connected to the crossover,buy just connecting the +ive/-ive wires on the said points wont give you the SQ your searching after installing the components.

Congrats greenhorn on getting the stuff installed Happy Iceing enjoy the electras.
Thanks guys, and special thanks to Abhinav, Frank, Invinsible, LBM for being always accessible on phone and suggesting different things (one of which finally worked for me just right), the gurus (Navin, DA) for excellent suggestions and feedback. You guys really make all the effort, all the planning and all the experience fully worth it in the end!

I might still find my setup a little less warm for my taste, and will keep on tuning it further under the gurus' watchful eyes.
greenh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY : Swift + Electra comps + Electra sub + havells power wire jithudigitised In-Car Entertainment 17 26th October 2009 16:38
Illusion Electra 4.1 in Alto - Upgraded with Clarion DXZ 785 USB HU + 6.5 mid bass Technocrat In-Car Entertainment 110 11th September 2009 13:34
Bullet 350/Electra 4S/ Electra 5S neoisme Motorbikes 23 16th June 2009 17:24
GZTC 2165T vs Illusion Electra chiragh_bir In-Car Entertainment 10 23rd January 2009 14:07
UVA ICE! (Pio 7950U + Illusion Electra 6.1) EatMyDust In-Car Entertainment 21 3rd October 2007 20:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:41.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks