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Old 26th September 2009, 10:21   #1
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Default Why do SQ HUs have to be so clunky

I've been trying to narrow down on an HU for my new car (tentatively to be purchased in Jan), and am torn between a SQ HU (Eclipse CD7200 most likely) and a pretty HU (Pioneer AVH-4100).

What I'm frustrated about is that there isn't a single HU available that has good sound quality (24-bit DAC, copper chassis, time alignment, hi-volt pre-outs, no internal amp etc) and good functionality (2-din touchscreen, seamless bluetooth and iPod connectivity) and looks good at the same time.

So why do all the SQ HUs look like they're still from the 90's, while the nice looking 21st century HUs have terrible sound quality? Could it be something to do with interference from the additional electronics in a large touchscreen compromising the signals in a SQ HU?

I want the best of both worlds in my car. Is it possible?
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Old 26th September 2009, 12:36   #2
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check out the JVC range. they might have something you might like, say , the AVX 77
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Old 26th September 2009, 13:05   #3
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yes even i felt so after shifting from 8850 to P80 RS II

i was very much disappointed with display of this head

About double din heads , check what manan is using in his civic , head is from kenwood and has everything !!
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Old 4th October 2009, 21:28   #4
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i am using avx-44 The sound quality is good enough to give me clean mids and vocals. would be upgrading components/amplifier and wiring. then would know its true potential. will keep u posted.
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Old 7th October 2009, 15:11   #5
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double din heads generally are either DVD units or have lots of functionality that centres around using the screen, but the problem is that if you are aiming for pure SQ then the unit needs to be designed so that the power in the unit is utilized only for making the sound be as good as you can possibly make it. Now having touch screens and pretty displays with GPS does nothing for how good it sounds and because you are wasting power toward all these functions it actually detracts from where you need the power to be focussed .... which is toward how good it needs to sound

which is more or less on a proper SQ unit you will find a facility to have source direct modes as well as facilities to switch off the LCD's - the direct modes will actually shorten the signal path and actually make all components that are not required to actually be disconnected in that mode. Turning off the LCD actually saves power and it sounds better when the LCD is switched off (and yes it does i have tried many units and even my current 9887 sounds better in direct mode than in normal mode even with all setting centred)

so basically you wont get a unit that is designed to be an audiophile quality unit that will have all the bells and whistles because that defeats the purpose .... most audiophile units are minimalistic in nature and again as an example one of my first audiophile grade hi-fi integrated amplifiers (albeit entry level audiophile grade) did not even have tone controls ie it was basically a huge toroidal transformer with a few power supply circuits and a volume pot amongst circuits designed to just take a flat response signal and just make it louder - no treble and bass controls etc and the only controls on the face of it was a volume potentiometer and source select knob with nothing else, the unit did not even have a remote control and for th eprice it was the best thing id ever heard

and even now 25 years later i still have to hear stuff that costs 10 times as much sound as good as that little 60 watts x 2 amplifier sounded (i say little in terms of power output but it was physically huge)

so any claim that you can get the best of both worlds is just only that ie a claim, it will not give you audiophile quality sound ..... ever. In fact most DVD units are too complex to concentrate on great sound quality because they have to pack the circuit boards to the hilt with hardware for loads of functionality and they will not concentrate with how well the unit gives you this functionality just that they will make it give you all that functionality even if it is second rate in terms of quality. This is just my own personal opinion

Quote:
The sound quality is good enough to give me clean mids and vocals
well sir clean mids and vocals is not the only aspect you need to say that the unit provides excellent sound quality

sound Quality as a term encompasses many aspects and among those you would need the unit to provide you good clean unclipped sound as you surmise but the sound should sound as realistic as possible and needs to faithfully reproduce as accurately as possible the sound that was heard by the microphone in the studio or the venue where the recording was made. SQ also encompasses the need for each instrument to be heard in full detail and in a realistic soundstage. this soundstage is more or less like having a three dimensional wall of sound in front of you. You need to hear each sound more or less from where each artist was positioned whilst the recording was made heres a picture that conveys this idea

Name:  SOUNDSTAGEwide.jpg
Views: 717
Size:  27.0 KB

so not only should the sound be in front of you and three dimensional ie it needs to sound like it has height, width and depth - it should also separate each instrument so that the detail of each item within the soundstage sounds like a different instrument being played with accurate tonality and timbre - so a bass guitar needs to sound like a bass guitar being strummed and not a mush of large bass sounds just hitting your head from the back. Each note must be realistically conveyed as the artist intended otherwise the emotion of the music gets lost

so the concept of sound quality is not as simple as people think, there are specific aspects you need to look at and whether the equipment provides these aspects before you qualify the equipment as capable of providing a sound quality experience .... so i hope that my ramblings above help you understand sound quality a bit better as the term "Sound Quality" would be referenced by an individual with audiophile aspirations
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Old 17th November 2009, 19:12   #6
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Well said,

Audiophile equipment tends to be minimalistic for the right reasons. The picture nicely sums up expectations.

SPL is quite a different ball game!!

Thanks, CJP
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Old 17th November 2009, 19:30   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
as an example one of my first audiophile grade hi-fi integrated amplifiers (albeit entry level audiophile grade) did not even have tone controls ie it was basically a huge toroidal transformer with a few power supply circuits and a volume pot amongst circuits designed to just take a flat response signal and just make it louder - no treble and bass controls etc and the only controls on the face of it was a volume potentiometer and source select knob with nothing else, the unit did not even have a remote control and for th eprice it was the best thing id ever heard

and even now 25 years later i still have to hear stuff that costs 10 times as much sound as good as that little 60 watts x 2 amplifier sounded (i say little in terms of power output but it was physically huge)
Agree on minimalism driving SQ...just curious which home amplifier was this?
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Old 17th November 2009, 19:35   #8
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If you want the ultimate then go for the Clarion HX-D2 or the Eclipse Cd7200 mk2 or the Ural HU's.
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Old 17th November 2009, 19:48   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I've been trying to narrow down on an HU for my new car (tentatively to be purchased in Jan), and am torn between a SQ HU (Eclipse CD7200 most likely) and a pretty HU (Pioneer AVH-4100).

What I'm frustrated about is that there isn't a single HU available that has good sound quality (24-bit DAC, copper chassis, time alignment, hi-volt pre-outs, no internal amp etc) and good functionality (2-din touchscreen, seamless bluetooth and iPod connectivity) and looks good at the same time.

So why do all the SQ HUs look like they're still from the 90's, while the nice looking 21st century HUs have terrible sound quality? Could it be something to do with interference from the additional electronics in a large touchscreen compromising the signals in a SQ HU?

I want the best of both worlds in my car. Is it possible?

I think the discontinued head from Kenwood X991 had most of the things you asked for, along with stunning dispay and looks. Sad its not available anymore now.

Its Asian counterpart is the X-9006U, which again is not available in India. If you have sources in Sing'pore you could lay your hands on one

Kenwood Corporation | Car Electroics | 1DIN Receivers | KDC-X9006U
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Old 20th November 2009, 18:45   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
Agree on minimalism driving SQ...just curious which home amplifier was this?
sorry for the late reply, I just saw this query now. It was a Pioneer A400x integrated amplifier, which was well thought off in the past - i actually used it till one channel got faulty last year.

Last edited by naughty001 : 20th November 2009 at 18:46.
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Old 30th November 2009, 18:36   #11
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what are we looking for performance with style, when we talk about eclipse 7200 its simple how we look up to it , it has its own style very elegant but yeah you dont have a dvd or a touch screen.
These players are meant for serious music for the pro listeners.
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Old 10th December 2009, 10:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
sorry for the late reply, I just saw this query now. It was a Pioneer A400x integrated amplifier, which was well thought off in the past - i actually used it till one channel got faulty last year.
My turn to apologize for the late reply....

Did some reading up on your Pio on the net...you own a piece of equipment that has cult status
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Old 10th December 2009, 11:07   #13
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Did you check the out the new Pioneer DEX P99RS? It Looks pretty cool for all the high end features it has.
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Old 10th December 2009, 12:11   #14
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It does cost a bomb. Even my the cheapest US rates, its close to 1500 USD

A better (in sense cheaper) option in this league would be the Clarion HX-D2
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Old 10th December 2009, 12:24   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
It does cost a bomb. Even my the cheapest US rates, its close to 1500 USD

A better (in sense cheaper) option in this league would be the Clarion HX-D2
Yes but it has everything including USB that the Clarion lacks which IMHO is a must these days.
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