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Old 9th October 2009, 13:25   #121
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In other words, is there a cross over that permits me to do the following?
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:33   #122
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Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
yes, it will then work perfectly as long as you have the amplifier that allows that adjustment and on the 360.2 you leave that particular channel as fullrange

EDIT : sorry for two posts so quickly after each other, i should have edited my previous post
Ya, i get it now. What you say is to just make the sub+centre output as fullrange, so that the AMP(50HZ-500HZ as XO points) will get the work done.

Excellent.

BY the way howz the RF360.2 as a product? Any technical issues / bugs.
Just read few reviews, mostly good, except one which complained of everything possible in a processor
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:36   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post

you connect the front output of the clarion headunit to the front input of the 360.2 and this will sum all 6 inputs as described in the manual as follows

dont worry about what they say about imaging because the setup we are considering here is a bit more complicated than the simple setup that the manufacturer suggests and we are not concerned with fader, all we want is that the left and right inputs create three left and three right outputs of the same signal because we want to use this for the front stage only

then the 360.2 outputs are used for the three way front stage, only snag i have discovered for that setup is that the sub outputs of the 360.2 can only be lowpassed up to a maximum of 200hz, this may create a problem to lowpass the midbass and that brings us back to square one where you need an amplifier with the relevant crossovers for the midbass
Exactly, RF processor was developed to be used with a just pre out-input, However if you feel you need to feed all inputs on the RF than you can always use the line output convertor something from the Audiocontrol which can convert 2 input signal to 3 or even 4 output singal, however result will be some same.

Secondly as RF manual mentions that you could have freq. adjustment from 50 to 10000hz for front, rear and center which means you will be connecting tweeters to the front, mids to the rear, now the center channel is more like a mono signal either you could use a Y splitter or another solution is to connect the sub on the sub output of RF and use the Sub output on the Clarion for the midbass. Clarion has adjustment for the sub from 25 to 10000hz as in somecases people use it for just straight 3 way on clarion.

What you want is to run 3 way front active, 2 way at the back passive and the sub. It doesn't matter whether the sub connected on Clarion or RF. You either way in the end get what you want.

To sum it up: Run the Clarion in 3 way mode active instead of normal mode.

High's output on Clarion: Cross this at lowest by HPF at "through". and it Goes to RF. From RF front goes to tweeter, RF rear goes to mids, RF sub goes to SUB.
Furhter xover on RF can be used to feed the required freq to the respective drivers along with a separate 2 way electronic xover.

"Mid" output from Clarion: Goes to Rear 2 way comps running is passive.
Xover on Clarion can be used to band-limit them.

"Sub" output from clarion: Goes to front midbass. Here you have flexibility of using the clarion xover where it has LPF from 25 to 10khz and HPF from 16 to 250hz or through.

So there you have 3 way active in front with TA, 2way passive at rear with TA, and sub which doesn't require TA.

Last edited by Invinsible : 9th October 2009 at 13:40.
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:38   #124
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I hope this thing works..
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:40   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Ya, i get it now. What you say is to just make the sub+centre output as fullrange, so that the AMP(50HZ-500HZ as XO points) will get the work done.

Excellent.

BY the way howz the RF360.2 as a product? Any technical issues / bugs.
Just read few reviews, mostly good, except one which complained of everything possible in a processor
the RF 360.2 is excellent as a product as long as you get one of the new ones, the old one had a problem with the bluetooth connectivity which is the only way you can get it to interface with a control unit

remember that it has no control unit and you need either a palm PDS unit or a smartphone with windows mobile which allows you to load apps into it or a laptop with bluetooth facilities, otherwise you cannot control the 360.2

i have used it with the palm and also the laptop and its easy enough to use and it did everything that the system design required only it had to be replaced because the first unit was one of the ones with a problem on bluetooth connectivity ... and there is no facility for a cable connection, all the connectivity depends upon a working bluetooth connection

EDIT NOTE : you could also use a PC with a bluetooth dongle if you could take it close enough to your car

the audison bit one (original) was initially a nightmare but in the bit one.1 all the issues have been ironed out

EDIT : that last diagram looks about right

Last edited by naughty001 : 9th October 2009 at 13:47.
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:49   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Exactly, RF processor was developed to be used with a just pre out-input, However if you feel you need to feed all inputs on the RF than you can always use the line output convertor something from the Audiocontrol which can convert 2 input signal to 3 or even 4 output singal, however result will be some same.

Secondly as RF manual mentions that you could have freq. adjustment from 50 to 10000hz for front, rear and center which means you will be connecting tweeters to the front, mids to the rear, now the center channel is more like a mono signal either you could use a Y splitter or another solution is to connect the sub on the sub output of RF and use the Sub output on the Clarion for the midbass. Clarion has adjustment for the sub from 25 to 10000hz as in somecases people use it for just straight 3 way on clarion.

What you want is to run 3 way front active, 2 way at the back passive and the sub. It doesn't matter whether the sub connected on Clarion or RF. You either way in the end get what you want.

To sum it up: Run the Clarion in 3 way mode active instead of normal mode.

High's output on Clarion: Cross this at lowest by HPF at "through". and it Goes to RF. From RF front goes to tweeter, RF rear goes to mids, RF sub goes to SUB.
Furhter xover on RF can be used to feed the required freq to the respective drivers along with a separate 2 way electronic xover.

"Mid" output from Clarion: Goes to Rear 2 way comps running is passive.
Xover on Clarion can be used to band-limit them.

"Sub" output from clarion: Goes to front midbass. Here you have flexibility of using the clarion xover where it has LPF from 25 to 10khz and HPF from 16 to 250hz or through.

So there you have 3 way active in front with TA, 2way passive at rear with TA, and sub which doesn't require TA.
Wonderfully conceived,

This is what you want it to be like;
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:53   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Exactly, RF processor was developed to be used with a just pre out-input, However if you feel you need to feed all inputs on the RF than you can always use the line output convertor something from the Audiocontrol which can convert 2 input signal to 3 or even 4 output singal, however result will be some same.

Secondly as RF manual mentions that you could have freq. adjustment from 50 to 10000hz for front, rear and center which means you will be connecting tweeters to the front, mids to the rear, now the center channel is more like a mono signal either you could use a Y splitter or another solution is to connect the sub on the sub output of RF and use the Sub output on the Clarion for the midbass. Clarion has adjustment for the sub from 25 to 10000hz as in somecases people use it for just straight 3 way on clarion.

What you want is to run 3 way front active, 2 way at the back passive and the sub. It doesn't matter whether the sub connected on Clarion or RF. You either way in the end get what you want.

To sum it up: Run the Clarion in 3 way mode active instead of normal mode.

High's output on Clarion: Cross this at lowest by HPF at "through". and it Goes to RF. From RF front goes to tweeter, RF rear goes to mids, RF sub goes to SUB.
Furhter xover on RF can be used to feed the required freq to the respective drivers along with a separate 2 way electronic xover.

"Mid" output from Clarion: Goes to Rear 2 way comps running is passive.
Xover on Clarion can be used to band-limit them.

"Sub" output from clarion: Goes to front midbass. Here you have flexibility of using the clarion xover where it has LPF from 25 to 10khz and HPF from 16 to 250hz or through.

So there you have 3 way active in front with TA, 2way passive at rear with TA, and sub which doesn't require TA.
yep, great solution. I think this should more or less covers it instead of what ive said above
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Old 9th October 2009, 13:54   #128
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There is something more I like to add. RF does gives the flexibility of BP as option and in your car you would need BP filter just for your midrange which is connected to RF, apart from the midbass. > So we can rule out the 2 way electronic crossover.
Here's what the manual says and mentions about BP filter

"Filter Type - Front, Rear and Center Channels
1. The crossovers for each channel can be configured as either high-pass
(HP), low-pass (LP), band-pass (BP) or completely by-passed (AP).
Except the subwoofer channel which is set to low-pass (LP).
Xover Freq (Crossover Frequency)

2. Frequency is adjustable between 50 and 10000Hz in stepped
increments for front, rear and center channels and between
50 and 200Hz for the subwoofer channel

3. When in band-pass mode (BP) there are 2 corner frequencies. The high-pass frequency is the lowest frequency you want for your speaker while the
low-pass frequency is the highest frequency. See the sample graph.

4. When you select any mode (except AP) the current crossover frequency will be displayed. Use the arrows to the immediate right of each field to adjust
the frequency up or down.

5. Frequency adjusts in stepped increments, 5 increments between 50 and 100, 10 increments between 100 and 250, 50 increments between 250 and 1000, 250 increments between 1000 and 5000, and 1000 increments between
5000 and 10000".
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Last edited by Invinsible : 9th October 2009 at 14:00.
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Old 9th October 2009, 14:23   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Wonderfully conceived,

This is what you want it to be like;
That's right but in your diagram the Rear which would be "MID" in active mode on clarion, will be connected to the Coax and not the midbass as shown in the diagram.

You could also do it the other way.
You could have the Front tweeter and Midrange running through Clarion which would be under "High" and "Mid". Take the Sub output of Clarion to the RF360 as full range freq which would be from "through/16hz to 10khz". On the RF360 you can connect the midbass driver on Front output (BP filter), Rear speakers passive in Rear output (BP filter) and subwoofer on sub output.

This would be simple and straight and looks less complicated plus an advantage here would be you get to operate or play around with different xover points for the Tweeter and Midrange from the Head unit, sitting in the car without any hassle rather than going back to the RF360.
Where as the xover points on the midbass and rear speakers on the RF would barely require any alteration once they are set.

Note: In this case you would need to check what BP freq. flexibility RF360 offers to be used on the Midbass and Rear speakers, if it doesn't offer as per the liking than you could stick with the previous setup I mentioned.
You could download the RF360 manual to understand it better from here. Answer

Last edited by Invinsible : 9th October 2009 at 14:35.
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Old 9th October 2009, 15:29   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
then the 360.2 outputs are used for the three way front stagez
Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
navin - thats the exact setup that invinsible suggested but instead of a basic three way crossover he suggests the 360.2 since this will work as the three way crossover but also with T/A included (see my post above)
nice idea, I did not think of this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
What you want is to run 3 way front active, 2 way at the back passive and the sub. It doesn't matter whether the sub connected on Clarion or RF. You either way in the end get what you want.

To sum it up: Run the Clarion in 3 way mode active instead of normal mode.
High's output on Clarion: Cross this at lowest by HPF at "through". and it Goes to RF. From RF front goes to tweeter, RF rear goes to mids, RF sub goes to SUB.
Furhter xover on RF can be used to feed the required freq to the respective drivers along with a separate 2 way electronic xover.

"Mid" output from Clarion: Goes to Rear 2 way comps running is passive.
Xover on Clarion can be used to band-limit them.

"Sub" output from clarion: Goes to front midbass. Here you have flexibility of using the clarion xover where it has LPF from 25 to 10khz and HPF from 16 to 250hz or through.
So there you have 3 way active in front with TA, 2way passive at rear with TA, and sub which doesn't require TA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
You could also do it the other way.
You could have the Front tweeter and Midrange running through Clarion which would be under "High" and "Mid". Take the Sub output of Clarion to the RF360 as full range freq which would be from "through/16hz to 10khz". On the RF360 you can connect the midbass driver on Front output (BP filter), Rear speakers passive in Rear output (BP filter) and subwoofer on sub output.

Note: In this case you would need to check what BP freq. flexibility RF360 offers to be used on the Midbass and Rear speakers, if it doesn't offer as per the liking than you could stick with the previous setup I mentioned.
Yes this method is far cleaner both in logic and in wiring and even is easier to tune while sitting in the cabin.
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Old 9th October 2009, 15:46   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
That's right but in your diagram the Rear which would be "MID" in active mode on clarion, will be connected to the Coax and not the midbass as shown in the diagram.

You could also do it the other way.
You could have the Front tweeter and Midrange running through Clarion which would be under "High" and "Mid". Take the Sub output of Clarion to the RF360 as full range freq which would be from "through/16hz to 10khz". On the RF360 you can connect the midbass driver on Front output (BP filter), Rear speakers passive in Rear output (BP filter) and subwoofer on sub output.

This would be simple and straight and looks less complicated plus an advantage here would be you get to operate or play around with different xover points for the Tweeter and Midrange from the Head unit, sitting in the car without any hassle rather than going back to the RF360.
Where as the xover points on the midbass and rear speakers on the RF would barely require any alteration once they are set.

Note: In this case you would need to check what BP freq. flexibility RF360 offers to be used on the Midbass and Rear speakers, if it doesn't offer as per the liking than you could stick with the previous setup I mentioned.
You could download the RF360 manual to understand it better from here. Answer
Sounds even better!.

Just to see if i have understood correctly?
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Old 9th October 2009, 16:05   #132
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Guess the above model wont work with Sub output to 360.
Just found this while reading through the manual
Quote:
1. The crossovers for each channel can be configured as either high-pass (HP), low-pass


(LP), band-pass (BP) or completely by-passed (AP). Except the subwoofer channel which is set to low-pass (LP).




2. Frequency is adjustable between 50 and 10000Hz in stepped increments for front, rear and center channels and


between 50 and 200Hz for the subwoofer channel
Will it work?
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Old 9th October 2009, 16:05   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post

Yes this method is far cleaner both in logic and in wiring and even is easier to tune while sitting in the cabin.
The 2nd option is fairly easier to setup, but with respect to tuning setting the Tweeter and Midrange on RF360.2 will be more helpful with the available 30band EQ option on it. Since Midrange and tweeter will be playing most part of music it would be better off if Mi10 uses the 1st option and take the advantage of using the Equalisers. If he seems to be fine with the way it sounds than I guess the 2nd option should work fine.
But for full potential of the RF360, I say Mids and tweeters on it would be better off. If a RTA program is used it would help in determine where the peaks and dips are in freq. and the boost or cut in freq. can be applied accordingly. Ofcourse this is going to be time consuming but the effort will be well worth it.

Mi10@ A subwoofer uses mainly a LP filter where the RF360 is offering from 50 to 200 which means if you keep the LP at 50 for the sub it will play all available freq. below 50 hz. Same way it you keep 80 or 100hz will be play everything below 80 or 100hz. In short it will work.
In some cases people uses in HP filter on a sub blocking it freq below 16hz or 25hz in order to have the sub play more clean as per it's specs. But if you select a good sub driver this will not be an issue. Some subs can play down to 20's and 10's (hz) without any issue and Some don't.
But don't worry this can be worked out.

Last edited by Invinsible : 9th October 2009 at 16:16.
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Old 9th October 2009, 20:36   #134
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Thumbs up Finalized

I have more or Less decided on the components that need to go in for this set up

Head: Clarion DXZ785USB
Amp 1: Blaupunkt GTA 480 (75W RMS x 4) 50-250HZ - HPF/LPF
Amp 2: Clarion APX 4361 (90W RMS x 4) 55-550HZ - HPF/LPF
Amp 3: RF Prime 500.1 Mono (500W RMS x 1 @ 2 ohm)
Processor: RF 3sixty.2
Front Compos: Hertz ESK 163L (125W RMS x 2)
Rear Coax: Hertz ECX 165 (70W RMS x 2)
Sub: 2 x 10" Blaupunkt Velocity (2 x 200 W RMS @ 2 + 2 ohm)

Concept:
From HU -
Preout 1 : to be given as input to RF 360.2
Preout 2 : to be given to 2 channels of Amp 2 and then to rear Coaxials (XO from HU)
Preout 3 : To be given to Amp 2(LPF at 500HZ by AMP 2) and then to the Mid-woofers of ESK 163L (rated power:70W RMS)

From RF 360.2 -
Front Channels: (Band passed from 550HZ - 5500HZ) to be given to 2 channels of Amp1 and then to midrange of ESK163L (rated power:75W RMS)
Rear Channels: (Highpassed from 5KHZ) to be given to 2 channels of Amp 2 and then to tweeters of ESK163L (rated power:100W RMS)
Sub Channel: (LPF at 100HZ) to be given to Amp 3 and then to Subs

Will this be fine?, If yes, i can proceed with buying the equipments

Awaiting your reply

Last edited by Mi10 : 9th October 2009 at 20:37. Reason: typo
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Old 9th October 2009, 23:05   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
I have more or Less decided on the components that need to go in for this set up

Head: Clarion DXZ785USB
Amp 1: Blaupunkt GTA 480 (75W RMS x 4) 50-250HZ - HPF/LPF
Amp 2: Clarion APX 4361 (90W RMS x 4) 55-550HZ - HPF/LPF
Amp 3: RF Prime 500.1 Mono (500W RMS x 1 @ 2 ohm)
Processor: RF 3sixty.2
Front Compos: Hertz ESK 163L (125W RMS x 2)
Rear Coax: Hertz ECX 165 (70W RMS x 2)
Sub: 2 x 10" Blaupunkt Velocity (2 x 200 W RMS @ 2 + 2 ohm)

Concept:
From HU -
Preout 1 : to be given as input to RF 360.2
Preout 2 : to be given to 2 channels of Amp 2 and then to rear Coaxials (XO from HU)
Preout 3 : To be given to Amp 2(LPF at 500HZ by AMP 2) and then to the Mid-woofers of ESK 163L (rated power:70W RMS)

From RF 360.2 -
Front Channels: (Band passed from 550HZ - 5500HZ) to be given to 2 channels of Amp1 and then to midrange of ESK163L (rated power:75W RMS)
Rear Channels: (Highpassed from 5KHZ) to be given to 2 channels of Amp 2 and then to tweeters of ESK163L (rated power:100W RMS)
Sub Channel: (LPF at 100HZ) to be given to Amp 3 and then to Subs

Will this be fine?, If yes, i can proceed with buying the equipments

Awaiting your reply
Everything looks good. If you can replace the blaupunkt amp will be good.. May be in fututre. Can you put up the t/s parameters of the sub?
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