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Old 28th October 2009, 11:06   #1
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Default Problem with My Swift's ICE

Hi BHPIANS,

need the help of the experts,

i have an ice setup in my Swift, recently i changed my Amplifier to Alpine, and i am facing a different problem.

Here are the Details of the setup:
JVC Double DIN, JBL Components, Pioneer 4 way Speakers, Alpine 1200 wats Amp, JBL Basstube 1100 watts.

problem:

The rear Speakers are taking the engine sound when ever i raise the Accelerator.

tried all the options but feel the amp is having the problem, since first i was told the speakers are gone, changed the new one but problem exists

then i was told that the problem is with the earthing in Music system, tried no use.

then i was told that the problem is with music system which needs a service, tried no use.

i am telling the seller that the issue is with amplifier, but he is not agreeing, and he tells that there is no problem issue is with wiring(funny part is he changed the entire wiring and tells issue is with wiring)

please help me what can be the root cause.

i have taken it to the Apline also, and they told that they will check the amp and let me know.
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Old 28th October 2009, 11:43   #2
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Er, what amp is this mate?
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Old 28th October 2009, 11:55   #3
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hi speed racer,
i am facing the same problem with my ICE. there is a hissing sound in the rear speakers and it increases when i rev my throttle. this problem could be because of 2 reasons

1. wiring problem ( if your wiring is new, check if it is genuine)
2. amplifier ( again you would face this problem if the amp is not genuine or you are using a Desi amp)

i know the hissing in my car is because of the panasound amp which i am using at present.

regards
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Old 28th October 2009, 12:50   #4
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I had a similar problem with the ICE Set-up of my Wagon-R. I had a Pioneer HU, with Xenos Components powered by a JBL 4 Channel Amp. All of a sudden I heard a strange noise after which all the speakers started producing the engine noise as and exactly in sync with the RPM levels whenever accelerator was pressed.

I tried the following-

1. Powered the speakers only with the HU and all was fine - Hence, Speakers, Wires and HU were fine - Amp was the culprit??

2. Powered the speakers this time through the Amp but with a different sound source, not even a different HU but I sed my IPOD's stereo out output and used a Stereo - Line out (pair) and connected that to the AMP's Input - This time too, All was fine. Hence, Amp was not the culprit.

3. The noise was only when the AMP and HU were used together, hence I checked the AUX Cable pair connecting HU and AMP for any damage - All was fine again.

4. Drilled another small hole and grounded the AMP to this point and the problem persisted.

I was fed up now since I was doing it all by myself. Then I googled and got this specific phrase called "Alternator Grind" and similar problems people faced.

There were only 2 solutions to this:

Option 1.
Ensure that the Co-Axial cables from HU to AMP are not running in parallel with the Power cable that runs from AMP to the Battery. Try keeping this perpendicular.

Option 2.
Make a small cut on the the pair of Co-Axials and have another set of wires coming out from here and connecting to a single point on the Head-Unit itself as shown Below.

Problem with My Swift's ICE-alrernator_noise.jpg


(Have used mspaint as I couldnt find exact picture in google due to time constraints, so excuse with the quality of the image)

Try these 2 options and you may well end up resolving the problem and do let me know if it worked. For me, Option 2 worked and I am using this set-up since almost a year now.
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:27   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Option 1.
Ensure that the Co-Axial cables from HU to AMP are not running in parallel with the Power cable that runs from AMP to the Battery. Try keeping this perpendicular.
The co-axial/aux cable you are talking about is generally called RCA cable, which carries pre-amp signal (not line-level) from the HU to the amp. How do you make this cable go perpendicular (90degrees) from the Power cable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Option 2.
Make a small cut on the the pair of Co-Axials and have another set of wires coming out from here and connecting to a single point on the Head-Unit itself as shown Below.
As I mention, RCA cables carry pre-amp signal to the amp, this signal is anyways low in power and is highly sensitive. Why on earth would anyone want to mess with this signal by opening up the RCA cable (in case you didn't know, most good RCA cables come with specially made electromagnetic-shielding shells) and only a fool will cut open this shell and not only expose the cable, but open a new path for signal loss by making a new connection from it to the outside.

There are better, saner ways to get rid of alternator whine.

1. Get better RCA cables (cost about Rs.600 onwards)
2. Route RCA cables from a car side opposite to where power cable is routed
3. Get proper grounding for both HU and amp

Generally, all three are necessary to completely rule out alternator whine. Of course, it preassumes your HU and AMP are not the culprit for this whine.

Last edited by greenh0rn : 28th October 2009 at 13:29.
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:00   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
There are better, saner ways to get rid of alternator whine.
Dear greenhorn,

In no particular way, I have used my response to force someone to resolve the problem only MY way. As you can see, I have only mentioned those solutions which have worked for ME . Anyone else coming up with their ways of resolving this are welcome. Rating them better or worse will only be the next level of analysis if the problem is ever resolved but only temporarily.

In my case, I almost ended up asking my friend to buy a new HU from the US and I just tried the last trick.

I am very much aware of the RCA cables and that they come with a wonderful insulation (If genuine) and what they are used for. To be very honest, I wasnt able to get the right acronym for the same (Yeah RCA OK?)

In my case, I completely disconnected all the wires, purchased a set of new speaker wires and RCAs too and reconnected them such that I never had to use any joints, anywhere. Ensured proper wires with the right guage for the Power supply to the HU and the Ground terminal for the Amp as well.

Regarding how to keep the Power and the RCA perpendicualr, I never used a T-Square to keep them at 90 Degrees but simply ensured that they never ran in parallel and were seperated in a way that they were almost perpendicular - Simple!! (I routed Power wire from battery terminal through the glove box of the dash board and then underneath the co-passenger's seat to the AMP. I then routed the RCA pairs from HU to AMP from below the Dashboard's RHS underneath the driver seat keeping it almost perpendicular)

Also, I have tried known good RCA pairs and couldnt fix them and I currently see no signal leak from different cables when used with different sound sources though your mentioning of the fact that there might be signal loss cannot be ruled out.


Finally, there are lots of audio forums that talk about this peculiar problem and ways to resolve it and that is where I was able to manage my issue from.


Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post

1. Get better RCA cables (cost about Rs.600 onwards)
2. Route RCA cables from a car side opposite to where power cable is routed
3. Get proper grounding for both HU and amp
Also in my case, all these 3 options above had failed and hence that LAST RESORT which eventually worked and is working.

Last edited by paragsachania : 28th October 2009 at 14:07.
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Option 1.
Ensure that the Co-Axial cables from HU to AMP are not running in parallel with the Power cable that runs from AMP to the Battery. Try keeping this perpendicular.

Option 2.
Make a small cut on the the pair of Co-Axials and have another set of wires coming out from here and connecting to a single point on the Head-Unit itself as shown Below.
What you have suggested in Option 1 is what we used to suggest in the early days on this forum. It still is valid - just that people forgot about it. Thanks for reviving our memories.

Option 2 essentially shorts the ground. An easier way is to short (ground of) the RCA outputs from the HU. Just take a naked wire and wrap the RCA outputs (female) togehter. There is a pic of someone who did this to a Pio HU somehwere on this forum.
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Old 28th October 2009, 15:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
What you have suggested in Option 1 is what we used to suggest in the early days on this forum. It still is valid - just that people forgot about it. Thanks for reviving our memories.

Option 2 essentially shorts the ground. An easier way is to short (ground of) the RCA outputs from the HU. Just take a naked wire and wrap the RCA outputs (female) togehter. There is a pic of someone who did this to a Pio HU somehwere on this forum.
You are correct on Option 2 and I couldnt find the right picture. But I found it now right here on Team-Bhp.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tor-whine.html

In case soldering or wrapping the wires on RCA sockets of the HU becomes difficult, some have suggested cutting it. In my case, due to the smoother surface of the RCA Sockets, soldering or even winding was difficult and hence the cut on RCA pairs.
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Old 28th October 2009, 22:54   #9
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Hi All,

thanks for the input for solving my problem, i have an Alpine MRP-M1000 model, which was imported from my cousin and i am using it. it was fitted by my friend, but it has international Warranty so can be get it done where ever i require.

As paragsachania mentioned i will be working on it tommorow and see whether i will still face the problem or not.

keep you posted on progress
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Old 4th May 2012, 18:16   #10
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Default Re: Problem with My Swift's ICE

Bumping up this old thread and using this thread to place my problem with the ICE in my Swift. It is a Sony HU and the problem that I am facing is that the CD is not getting loaded into the unit. The system gives out a whinning noise like when the CD is normally being loaded but it does not pull in the CD. Even if it is forced inside, its of no use. The CD keeps coming out or remains stuck around the opening. Have given to the service centre twice and the guys there told me that it is a very common problem with Sony systems and they repaired it promptly both the times. But, the problem comes back after 3-4 days. Can gurus throw some light on this problem and shall I ask the service centre guys to look for some specific issues? Or it is not a curable problem? The service centre guys tell me that "no guarantee on loading unloading problem repair" and charged me Rs 500 each time. So, if its not permanently repairable then I'll change the unit rather than spending money on such repairs. People with experience of this problem pls help with your inputs.
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