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Old 12th December 2009, 23:43   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
My budget for the amp is 250$.

1. I will not be fitting rear speakers.
2. I may go for a sub later in which case 2 channels could be bridged.
3. Wattage needed 80 - 100
I'd suggest a couple of other options as well -

Last edited by CrackedHead : 12th December 2009 at 23:53.
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Old 13th December 2009, 00:04   #17
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Can someone with a punto measure this for me please.
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Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-untitled.jpg  

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Old 28th December 2009, 23:07   #18
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Hey guys, I'm back in India and now trying to get the speakers to fit.

The position I had marked out in the picture above wont work. I guess the only position left is the quarter glass area. I have 2 questions about that:

1. Where should the speakers be facing? Towards each other, straight towards the passengers or angled to face towards the other seat?

2. Should the tweeter be placed in the stock position in the door? or should that too be moved somewhere to the A pillar.

Request your help with this as i would need to take a decission on this by tomorrow. Thanks in Advance.
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Old 29th December 2009, 07:25   #19
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The problem for you is that the midranges here are cones instead of domes. The complication arises more because a dome would have a sealed rear chamber at the back hence wont need any form of enclosure but a cone midrange will need some sort of enclosure so you will need to do some construction in order to fit these

If you are going to go full active and have time alignment for each speaker pair then it becomes easier and i could suggest that you install the tweeter on the A-pillar and the midrange very low down in the kick panels because the vertical orientation does not matter as much as the horizontal ie having the midranges lower down will not matter so much if you could get the arrival times of the wave to your ears more-or-less at the same time point

If you are going to run passive then you need the midrange and tweeter closer to each other and you need to correct for pathlength distance differences by where you install the speakers so in that instance it would e far better to install both the mid and tweeter in the kick panels as far away from you as possible ie something like this (random illustrative pic from the net .... not my vehicle)

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Please note this is purely from a technical standpoint since the guys installing the mids and tweeters up on the A-pillars will most likely be running active most of the time and will most likely have some form of time alignment on each speaker driver to adjust for pathlength differences

However nothing stops you from installing the speakers up-top for now and upgrading to the active setup at a later stage.

Sorry that i cant be of more specific help but i have not come across that particular vehicle so i dont know of any vehicle specific tips that i can provide

about the on axis vs off axis debate remember that the higher frequencies will tend to roll off much quicker when off axis so that will depend on the type of sound you prefer ie lots of high frequency or a more relaxed laid back type of sound that is not so aggressive
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Old 29th December 2009, 08:12   #20
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Thanks naughty, that was helpful indeed. I guess I will have to go for the A pillar for now.

Now I have paid partially for the Focal Solid 4 amp (http://signature.crutchfield.com/S-t...lid-4-Red.html) but since I have a Blaupunkt player, I was just considering this amp as a last minute check. Connecting would be simpler as I would get the exact adapter for my stock player.

Here are the details of the AMP: Blaupunkt - THA 475 PnP - Technical Details Any idea what would be the approx price?

Please help me decide between these 2.

Option 1: Focal Solid 4 - approx 17k
Option 2: Blaupunkt THA 475 PnP - approx price ?????

Last edited by Crimson : 29th December 2009 at 08:14.
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Old 29th December 2009, 13:56   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
I will be mounting the mids in the front quarter glass area and need help urgently on the direction these speakers need to face. Pl keep in mind that the quarter panel is quite far ahead from the driver.

1. Mids point straight towards each other
2. Mids point straight back to driver and passenger
3. Mids point across (point to opposite seat)

Lastly, considering that the mid bass driver would be in the door, the mids in the quarter pannel, where should the tweeter go? Stock location? or slightly above the mids, in the A column?
The Mids you have are cone mids and are quite deep. Given that this is a car that is dirven daily I would prefer the mid to be installed in the door but the Punto door does not seem like it offers the space to do so. In the photo above (post 17) you have maked the location you hope will work with a red cross. I suspect that this location will not be big enough to accomodate the midrange.

If you are mounting the mids in the quarter panel area please drive the car around with area covered to ensure that it does not hamper with your visibility. The cone mids have a faster roll off than most dome midrnages hence it would make sense to have the mids point to the passenger on the opposite side (left mid to right passenger).

The tweeter should be mounted as close to the midrnage as physicallly posssible and on-axis with the midrange. THe woofer-midrange freq is about 300hz which means that the c-c distance can be about 1 meter apart before comb filtering is noticeable. The midrnage tweeter crossover is at 4kHz which means the tweeter and midrange c-c should be about 7cm apart!
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Old 29th December 2009, 17:01   #22
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My suggestion to you is please go with the FOCAL or the Eclipse and not the blau. while i love em and have the blau head and speakers. I've heard of quite a few blown blau amps.

Last edited by valhallen.282 : 29th December 2009 at 17:03.
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Old 29th December 2009, 17:28   #23
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i would use the focal amplifier as well.
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Old 30th December 2009, 10:22   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Given that this is a car that is dirven daily I would prefer the mid to be installed in the door but the Punto door does not seem like it offers the space to do so. In the photo above (post 17) you have maked the location you hope will work with a red cross. I suspect that this location will not be big enough to accomodate the midrange.
Well in the door, the midrange cannot be inset. There is just no surface flat and large enough. Secondly, even if i could squeeze it in, its not deep enough and there would be a lot of metal cutting involved which i would like to avoid.

One possibility is mounting it on a ~4 inch cylinder and mounting the cylinder on the door as done here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post1655218

But this would stick out quite a bit. However do you feel this would be better for SQ? I do like the higher end frequencies sharp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
If you are mounting the mids in the quarter panel area please drive the car around with area covered to ensure that it does not hamper with your visibility. The cone mids have a faster roll off than most dome midrnages hence it would make sense to have the mids point to the passenger on the opposite side (left mid to right passenger).
The quarter pannels on the punto are practically useless. Especially the one on the drivers side. I would not loose much. The visibility is bad no doubt - but loosing the quarter pannels wont really make it much worse.

By "Roll Off" do you mean how quickly the tone finishes / lasts?

About the direction, i can fix the mids as you have suggested but for the right mid, the sound waves would hit the hump of the dashboard. Would that be a problem? Thats why I was considering making each mid point straight back to each passenger and not across. What do you suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The tweeter should be mounted as close to the midrnage as physicallly posssible and on-axis with the midrange.
Got it - So in lay mans terms the angle at which the tweeter is mounted should be same as that of the mids. Similar to what Naughty explained in this post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post1655024

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
THe woofer-midrange freq is about 300hz which means that the c-c distance can be about 1 meter apart before comb filtering is noticeable.
So you mean the distance between the midbass and the midrange centers should be 1 meter apart?
I dont know what comb filtering is but ill look it up on google rather than just ask -

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The midrnage tweeter crossover is at 4kHz which means the tweeter and midrange c-c should be about 7cm apart!
Got it! This would not be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
i would use the focal amplifier as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
My suggestion to you is please go with the FOCAL or the Eclipse and not the blau. while i love em and have the blau head and speakers. I've heard of quite a few blown blau amps.

I just was considering the Blau because of the compatibility and ease of setup with the stock system. But OK will go for the FOCAL.

Thanks a ton Navin, Van , Naught for all the answers and suggestions. Really appreciate the help.

Last edited by Crimson : 30th December 2009 at 10:27.
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Old 30th December 2009, 10:54   #25
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Quote:
By "Roll Off" do you mean how quickly the tone finishes / lasts?
actually no

sorry if you already some of this stuff but im giving a more-or-less complete description for the sake of a more complete explanation here

humans hear from 20 hz to 20000 hz and an ideal speaker should be one which plays all those frequencies but such a speaker dees not exist since higher frequencies would need the speaker cone to move faster and lower frequencies would require the cone to move slower ie 1 hz is a representation of one cycle per second so 20 hz would be 20 cycles per second whilst 20000 hz would be 20000 cycles per second, so speakers are made to conform to specific purposes and sizes according to the frequencies they need to reproduce

so the mid would be restricted to the frequencies that it can play well whilst the frequencies it does not play so well would tend to reduce in energy naturally or with the aid of a crossover network. this reduction in the energy is known as the amount that the speaker rolls off. if not using a crossover the speaker would have a natural roll-off but with a crossover the speaker would have an enforced roll-off at the rate determined by the slope of the crossover

to correctly describe how long the tone lasts you would call that the "decay" of the note and during transients how quickly a note is able to start is referred to as the "attack", quicker attack and longer decay would lead to more detail in the music hence it becomes more lifelike
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Old 30th December 2009, 12:20   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
So you mean the distance between the midbass and the midrange centers should be 1 meter apart?
1 meter would be the maximum c-c distance.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 13:03   #27
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Hi Guys,

The install is done. Sounds pretty good. Will post snaps and details in the evening.

Sounds pretty good but will need help setting the gain and the frequency. Thanks a ton for all your help.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 13:22   #28
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Sweet stuff. where did you get the install done ?
Looking forward to see the install pics soon.

Since you are in pune, any possibility of an audition ? hehe
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Old 4th January 2010, 16:37   #29
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Here are the snaps.

Any of the Guru's in Pune? Id like some one to help me set the amp. The speakers are very clear but just SO BRIGHT!! Or Maybe its how they are installed?
Attached Thumbnails
Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-01012010284.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-02012010288.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-02012010289.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009277.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009278.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009279.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009280.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009282.jpg  

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-31122009283.jpg  


Last edited by Crimson : 4th January 2010 at 16:41.
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Old 4th January 2010, 16:45   #30
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Is there any tweeter attenuation on the crossover, you could drop this to around -3db. If there isnt the only way to sort that out would be to use an EQ to drop the offending frequencies
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