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Old 4th January 2010, 16:54   #31
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Yes there is and i have set it to -3db. Its actually the Vocals that are too sharp. not the tweeter. The Mids just overpower the rest.

I have to set vocals on the HU all the way down.

As of now I am running with HPF with Frequency at 55HZ and gain is just 3-4%. I am going to need some help getting the system set up correctly. As of now I dont have a sub so i need to use the Mid bass to produce all the depth.

Note: I'm running this using High level inputs. My stock system does not have any Line out's.

Last edited by Crimson : 4th January 2010 at 16:57. Reason: High Level Inputs note
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Old 4th January 2010, 17:14   #32
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I never really listed down the full setup as of today.

Focal 165 A3 Components: 400$ (~18000 Rs)
Focal Solid 4 Amplifier: 17000Rs
Dynamat 1.5 Sheets: 1700Rs
Monster Power cable 2000Rs
Monster 16 Gauge speaker cable: 1300Rs

TOTAL: 40000 Rs

I dont know whats happened to me! I still dont feel satisfied. Now I want a Sub! and I feel I would have been better off with the CA470! And I want a Signal processor! and I want Rear Fills!!!!

Whats happened to me? I was a happy and satisfied bloke with the stock system! PLEASE HELP!

Last edited by Crimson : 4th January 2010 at 17:16.
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Old 4th January 2010, 17:52   #33
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Ha ha.. Once you enter the ICE section, you'll never be satisfied..!

Nice equipment! Can a 3 way setup be driven by a 4-channel amp? Where in Pune are you getting the installation done?

There are a few very good 3 way setups in pune, you can take advice from them.


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Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
I never really listed down the full setup as of today.

Focal 165 A3 Components: 400$ (~18000 Rs)
Focal Solid 4 Amplifier: 17000Rs
Dynamat 1.5 Sheets: 1700Rs
Monster Power cable 2000Rs
Monster 16 Gauge speaker cable: 1300Rs

TOTAL: 40000 Rs

I dont know whats happened to me! I still dont feel satisfied. Now I want a Sub! and I feel I would have been better off with the CA470! And I want a Signal processor! and I want Rear Fills!!!!

Whats happened to me? I was a happy and satisfied bloke with the stock system! PLEASE HELP!
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Old 4th January 2010, 20:14   #34
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whats the CA470 ?

you have the beginning of a good system, all you need to do expand is to get that signal processor you speak of - then use the focal amp to run the tweeters and midrange drivers - then get a sub in a good enclosure and also another strong 4 channel amplifier, from the second amp you run two channels to power the midbass drivers and bridge the remaining two channels to run the sub

this will allow you to drop the levels of the midrange and tweeter drivers by using manipulation of the gain levels (even though its not a volume control it does restrict the input voltage so it will drop levels effectively) and the midbass and sub can be as loud or soft as you like depending on the second amp that you get

if you are clever about how you go about it you can do this step by step and you dont need it all in one huge expensive step UNLESS you have the spare cash to do it all in one go

forgot to mention you can run rear fill off your headunit rear speaker outputs, so when you dotn want those to work you can fade them out

Last edited by naughty001 : 4th January 2010 at 20:15.
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Old 4th January 2010, 22:14   #35
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^^ That must be the Harman Kardon CA 470 4-ch amp.
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Old 4th January 2010, 22:34   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
Ha ha.. Once you enter the ICE section, you'll never be satisfied..!

Nice equipment! Can a 3 way setup be driven by a 4-channel amp? Where in Pune are you getting the installation done?

There are a few very good 3 way setups in pune, you can take advice from them.
Not a problem as long as there is a 3-way passive crossover in the kit which this kit has.

@ Crimson, give some time for the speakers to open up and then do some fine tuning, should sound sweet.
It has a woven cone, will take some time to open up, have patience.
Just checked the specs, the tweeter seems to be an aluminium dome one so it wont sound as sweet as a silk dome one. It will be slightly slightly on the brighter side but that can be taken care of with fine tuning.

As mentioned above, you might want to get a better HU or a signal processor. TA is something you might wanna have, makes a world of a difference, atleast it does in my case.
Why have you set the HPF at 55Hz ?

That's what I feel, based on the limited knowledge I have.I may be wrong.hehe

Last edited by Amey : 4th January 2010 at 22:41.
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Old 5th January 2010, 07:30   #37
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Yes. The kit has a 3 way crossover. The install was done at Poona Motors, However the bracket for the mids I made myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
Nice equipment! Can a 3 way setup be driven by a 4-channel amp? Where in Pune are you getting the installation done?

There are a few very good 3 way setups in pune, you can take advice from them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
whats the CA470 ?

you have the beginning of a good system, all you need to do expand is to get that signal processor you speak of - then use the focal amp to run the tweeters and midrange drivers - then get a sub in a good enclosure and also another strong 4 channel amplifier, from the second amp you run two channels to power the midbass drivers and bridge the remaining two channels to run the sub

this will allow you to drop the levels of the midrange and tweeter drivers by using manipulation of the gain levels (even though its not a volume control it does restrict the input voltage so it will drop levels effectively) and the midbass and sub can be as loud or soft as you like depending on the second amp that you get

if you are clever about how you go about it you can do this step by step and you dont need it all in one huge expensive step UNLESS you have the spare cash to do it all in one go

forgot to mention you can run rear fill off your headunit rear speaker outputs, so when you dotn want those to work you can fade them out
I am only using 2 channels of the Focal Amp. Channel 3 and 4 are not connected. You have mentioned driving the Mid Bass directy through another amp? How would that be possible? Would it not need to be through the crossover?

Also, if this is possible, why cant I do this just now? As I mentioned, Channel 3 and 4 are not used.

I feel the Mid Bass as of now does not produce that much punch. I am wondering if the 75W per channel RMS was enough for these speakers. May be because th gain is currently set at just 2-3 %? If i raise the volume too high the Mid bass distorts a bit. Something does not feel right. When I heard the similar 2 way at the dealers shop the bass was much deeper...
May be because it was in the demo wall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
^^ That must be the Harman Kardon CA 470 4-ch amp.
Yup! I meant the Harman Kardon CA 470. The reason I went for the Focal over the Harman Kardon CA 470 was that the Focal had line level inputs which the CA 470 did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
Not a problem as long as there is a 3-way passive crossover in the kit which this kit has.

@ Crimson, give some time for the speakers to open up and then do some fine tuning, should sound sweet.
It has a woven cone, will take some time to open up, have patience.
Just checked the specs, the tweeter seems to be an aluminium dome one so it wont sound as sweet as a silk dome one. It will be slightly slightly on the brighter side but that can be taken care of with fine tuning.

As mentioned above, you might want to get a better HU or a signal processor. TA is something you might wanna have, makes a world of a difference, atleast it does in my case.
Why have you set the HPF at 55Hz ?

That's what I feel, based on the limited knowledge I have.I may be wrong.hehe
I dint know speakers needed a "Run-In period" . The HPF is at 55Hz because that the minimum frequency response for this set.

Whats a TA?

I will need someone to in Pune to help me tune the set....

Last edited by Crimson : 5th January 2010 at 07:32.
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Old 5th January 2010, 07:37   #38
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Sure! anytime this weekend.

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Originally Posted by Amey View Post
Sweet stuff. where did you get the install done ?
Looking forward to see the install pics soon.

Since you are in pune, any possibility of an audition ? hehe
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Old 5th January 2010, 11:17   #39
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Ouch! No wonder they sound bright. The tweeters are, from what one can make out in the pics, made to face the right ear of the driver and the left ear of the front passenger directly. It should be the other way around - make the right one face the right ear of the front passenger and the left one the left ear of the driver.

Also, the installer has done a rather shoddy job with the dark grey carpet on the mounting arrangement. Ask that thing to be taken out, all the edges rounded off (with a radius of say 1cm), sand the wood surfaces well and cover it with light grey felt pasted on with Fevicol taking care that no folds form. That way it will look well integrated with the surrounding plastic.
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Old 5th January 2010, 15:11   #40
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I have found the individual spec sheets for aech component of the three way.

From what I understand, the mids and the mid-bass are both capable of individually handling 80W RMS each.

Can I do something that Naughty001 suggested with the existing setup?

1. Use channel 3 & 4 to power each mid-bass directly (not through the passive crossover) by enabling the LPF

2. Use Channel 1 & 2 to power the mids and the tweeter through the provided crossover and leave the wooker leads on the crossover unconnected?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf tweeter.pdf (1.36 MB, 270 views)
File Type: pdf mids.pdf (1.25 MB, 241 views)
File Type: pdf MidBass.pdf (1.10 MB, 275 views)
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Old 5th January 2010, 15:37   #41
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Crimson, what Naughty is suggested is an active setup, where each of drivers (tweeters, mids and midbasses) get separate amplification direct from the amplifier, and the passive crossover has no role to play. Unless you find yourself a very competent tuner or are prepared for weeks, perhaps months of agonizing bouts of tuning yourself, I'd say steer clear of going active at this point in time.

As DA has suggested, first work to tune your passive setup properly. From what it looks like, your gains need adjustment. Mid-bass should never distort even at high volumes, so find out what's its problem.

Why did you go for an amp that takes line level inputs? What did you want to feed it with?

PS: You can add a sub and feed it bridged output from the two-unused channels from your amp. A decent new sub should cost you anywhere from 3-4k to 10-15k, or even 30-35k (really there is no upper limit), find what suits you best and go for it.

Last edited by greenh0rn : 5th January 2010 at 15:40.
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Old 5th January 2010, 16:08   #42
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Aah so the install was done at Vineet's place. Hmm..
Well since he has a lot of cars coming in daily, he doesnt have much time to dedicate for a good install on each car. I am not saying, he does a bad job.
Problem is, his installers will set gains slightly high by default so it sounds shitty which is how generic users like it, loud, tinny, bright and so on.

The concept of SQ is sort of unheard for these guys, not their fault.

As recommended by a few others above, all it needs is a bit of toning down of gains and fine tuning.

As Deralteji rightly said, the Mid range bracket could be implemented in a much better way.Ideally to be made in Fiberglass.
Something like this,

Attachment 257090

Attachment 257091

Otherwise you could also toy with the idea of installing the mid range driver in the door, just above the mid bass so only the tweeter is there on the dash.

Could you post more pics of how the amp is installed ?

Last edited by Amey : 5th January 2010 at 16:15.
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Old 5th January 2010, 16:47   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post

Your links don't work.
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Old 5th January 2010, 17:04   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amey View Post
Aah so the install was done at Vineet's place. Hmm..
Well since he has a lot of cars coming in daily, he doesnt have much time to dedicate for a good install on each car. I am not saying, he does a bad job.
Problem is, his installers will set gains slightly high by default so it sounds shitty which is how generic users like it, loud, tinny, bright and so on.

The concept of SQ is sort of unheard for these guys, not their fault.

As recommended by a few others above, all it needs is a bit of toning down of gains and fine tuning.

As Deralteji rightly said, the Mid range bracket could be implemented in a much better way.Ideally to be made in Fiberglass.
Something like this,

Attachment 257090

Attachment 257091

Otherwise you could also toy with the idea of installing the mid range driver in the door, just above the mid bass so only the tweeter is there on the dash.

Could you post more pics of how the amp is installed ?
Yes, I was very disapointed with the amount of time that was spend on the car. Everything was in a super hurry. Plus multiple people came and did half the job and then left and then someone else came and that just went on. They were even soldering the wires with the polarity incorrect which I had to correct them. If I was not paying attention it would have been soldered wrong. This is because one guy connected it to the speaker end and left and some other guy came and connected them to the crossover.

For the fiberglass he quoted me 5000, i made these brackets myself. The black carpet is what he stuck on. Maybe I will invest in the fiberglass mould later on.

The gain is now at 0. It cant go any lower.

I struggled with placing the mids in the door earlier. will give it another look but it seems unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg_chn View Post
Your links don't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
Crimson, what Naughty is suggested is an active setup, where each of drivers (tweeters, mids and midbasses) get separate amplification direct from the amplifier, and the passive crossover has no role to play. Unless you find yourself a very competent tuner or are prepared for weeks, perhaps months of agonizing bouts of tuning yourself, I'd say steer clear of going active at this point in time.

As DA has suggested, first work to tune your passive setup properly. From what it looks like, your gains need adjustment. Mid-bass should never distort even at high volumes, so find out what's its problem.

Why did you go for an amp that takes line level inputs? What did you want to feed it with?

PS: You can add a sub and feed it bridged output from the two-unused channels from your amp. A decent new sub should cost you anywhere from 3-4k to 10-15k, or even 30-35k (really there is no upper limit), find what suits you best and go for it.
The gain is on 0 now!

I cant change the stock head unit as I will loose the Blue & me functionality. And the stock system has no preouts. This Amp can take both High & low level inputs. I fugured getting an amp that also has line level inputs would be cleaner than going for line level converters.

Can someone recommend a professional good installer in Pune. I dont mind paying him again to set it up for me neatly again. But that person should have time to dedicate to the install.

Someone asked about the location and pictures of the amp. It is placed under the front passenger seat. I can take a snap but there is nothing fancy to it. It does get mighty hot though... wonder if thats normal.

My only reason to consider powering the Mid-Bass directly is because in the sheets I attached, it is mentioned that the Mid-bass & mids are both capable of handling 80W rms each. Where as I am feeding a total of just 75W rms to each crossover. Or am i wrong here.

Last edited by Crimson : 5th January 2010 at 17:14.
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Old 5th January 2010, 17:07   #45
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Sorry, I had uploaded wrong pics. When i went to edit it, I couldnt.

Anyway here they are,
Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-p1120516.jpg

Punto ICE - Focal Access 165 A3 + Focal Solid 4 AMP-p1120507.jpg
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