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Old 28th February 2010, 15:24   #31
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Here is one which was done in a Wagon-R.
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Old 1st March 2010, 10:16   #32
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Here is one which was done in a Wagon-R.
Thanks. Went through this and the related threads about " space saver installs". Quarter glass mounted speakers would be a no no for me as -
1. Addition of panels - in a 10 year old car (with already loose ones!) means more rattles.
2. Blocking the glass - safety?
3. Quarter panel area of the Zen not as wide as the wagon R? Will 6x9 speakers (with additionally wider mounts) fit anyway? Have seen the pics of the same done in blueraven's Zen though - looks odd and cramped.

Any possibilty of getting the 6x9s fixed in the rear door panels? (No power windows)?

Last edited by Zen2001 : 1st March 2010 at 10:19.
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Old 1st March 2010, 13:19   #33
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Sorry, can't help but mention: you seem to prefer looking for problems, rather than solutions!

Sure, no reason why 6x9s cannot be mounted on the rear doors. They might jut out a couple of inches due to the MDF adapter you have use so that the magnet does not foul the window glass. At worst, the door pad may sag - after all it is a 'cardboard' door pad, but that can be corrected by a layer of fiber glass laid on the inside of the pad. I will not talk on the effect on the door hinges due to the additional weight of the 6x9 drivers.

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Old 1st March 2010, 13:37   #34
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Sorry, can't help but mention: you seem to prefer looking for problems, rather than solutions!
No, I'm looking for problems WITH the solutions!

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Sure, no reason why 6x9s cannot be mounted on the rear doors. They might jut out a couple of inches due to the MDF adapter you have use so that the magnet does not foul the window glass. At worst, the door pad may sag - after all it is a 'cardboard' door pad, but that can be corrected by a layer of fiber glass laid on the inside of the pad. I will not talk on the effect on the door hinges due to the additional weight of the 6x9 drivers.
I've got to look into this. As I said, I don't want the "rattle orchestra" caused by loose panels for accompaniment! I have to look at other potential spaces again now.
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Old 1st March 2010, 17:59   #35
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I have a Hyundai Accent GLE 2008 model. At this time, I only have 6x9 speakers in the rear and nothing in the front doors. What set of speakers would you guys recommend?
I have a Pioneer 5090UB HU and cannot invest in an amplifier at this time.
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Old 1st March 2010, 20:04   #36
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I have a Hyundai Accent GLE 2008 model. At this time, I only have 6x9 speakers in the rear and nothing in the front doors. What set of speakers would you guys recommend?
I have a Pioneer 5090UB HU and cannot invest in an amplifier at this time.
a good set of components(5.25" or 6.5") up front ;pl ensure that the impedance of speakers is 4 ohms so that they can be driven off the HU

choices :Illusion Electra,JBL GTO(budget good stuff)
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Old 3rd March 2010, 00:09   #37
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Got down to measure the "cut" necessary to mount 6x9's...the dimensions are only slightly (maybe 0.5cm) less than the cone size. However the face (surface grill & periphery) needs a mounting area of atleast 10.5 x 8 with a depth of 5". The height could be crucial as the space below the rear window winder lever is barely 8". Depth of the door from inside of the panel also may not be 5" but I suppose that could be "created" by an additional MDF mounting rim on the outside of the panel. However, will the doors be able to manage the weight in the long run? Or will there be subsequent loosening and rattling?
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Old 3rd March 2010, 00:36   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
Got down to measure the "cut" necessary to mount 6x9's...the dimensions are only slightly (maybe 0.5cm) less than the cone size. However the face (surface grill & periphery) needs a mounting area of atleast 10.5 x 8 with a depth of 5". The height could be crucial as the space below the rear window winder lever is barely 8". Depth of the door from inside of the panel also may not be 5" but I suppose that could be "created" by an additional MDF mounting rim on the outside of the panel. However, will the doors be able to manage the weight in the long run? Or will there be subsequent loosening and rattling?
Better still, get rid of Cylinder in the boot!
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Old 3rd March 2010, 21:06   #39
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Dr. Zen, you may not be measuring properly. For depth, please measure from the rear plane of the frame (where the frame will touch the mounting) to the rear face of the magnet (plane to plane, not edge to edge ). Just sit the speaker on a flat surface - magnet side down, and measure the height from the surface to the underside of the frame, with a flat scale. One expects this to be less than 5".

Second, measure the distance from the outside of the door pad to the plane of the glass movement (say, the glass holder channel). This dimension, minus the speaker height, plus 1/2" for clearance will be the thickness of the spacer required. The spacer will allow the speaker to be mounted without the magnet fouling with the glass. Don't worry about the space below the winder, since the speaker has to be positioned towards the bottom of the pad on the door-hinge side, and only the magnet and part of the frame will be inside the door cavity.

Don't worry about the weight of the speaker affecting the hinge. You should realize that the force put on the door, when a passenger uses the door to lever oneself up from the seat while getting out of the car, is much much higher than the speaker weight. Instead, think about whether the door pad can take the weight of the speaker.
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Old 4th March 2010, 01:21   #40
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Dr. Zen, you may not be measuring properly. For depth, please measure from the rear plane of the frame (where the frame will touch the mounting) to the rear face of the magnet (plane to plane, not edge to edge ). Just sit the speaker on a flat surface - magnet side down, and measure the height from the surface to the underside of the frame, with a flat scale. One expects this to be less than 5".
True. I took it as 5" to be safe. The actual "height" (measured as you have said) from rear plane to rear magnet is about 3-4cm less. The overall size of the 6x9 (with the grill-frame et al) comes to 10.5x7.5x5 inches

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Second, measure the distance from the outside of the door pad to the plane of the glass movement (say, the glass holder channel). This dimension, minus the speaker height, plus 1/2" for clearance will be the thickness of the spacer required. The spacer will allow the speaker to be mounted without the magnet fouling with the glass. Don't worry about the space below the winder, since the speaker has to be positioned towards the bottom of the pad on the door-hinge side, and only the magnet and part of the frame will be inside the door cavity.
Lets say theoretically, this space (below the lowermost level of the glass channel) is available, with the clearance margin. The issue is that the winder lever (which has a radius of 2 inches or so) will not have space to complete a full rotation once the speaker (with its mount) is affixed on the outer side of the panel just below its centre of rotation. The height of the door panel below the window winder is 8". The only way then would be to mount the entire speaker from within the panel, so that it does not project out from the panel and foul with the movements of the lever. But then, thickness of the door from the inside of the panel would have to be atleast 5" (I haven't removed the panel to measure this yet).

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Don't worry about the weight of the speaker affecting the hinge. You should realize that the force put on the door, when a passenger uses the door to lever oneself up from the seat while getting out of the car, is much much higher than the speaker weight. Instead, think about whether the door pad can take the weight of the speaker.
Sorry, I should not have mentioned the hinges; its the flimsy panel that's the suspect. Maybe some reinforcements, if you can advise? Thanks.
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Old 4th March 2010, 14:16   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
... rear plane to rear magnet is about 3-4cm less. ...
OK, so about 3.5" depth behind mounting plane.
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... The height of the door panel below the window winder is 8". The only way then would be to mount the entire speaker from within the panel, ...
I actually went out and checked an old Zen to relate to the problem! Yes, the winder location is a constraint - not enough space below it. The widest part of the speaker will be right below it. Please do measure accurately once again. I wouldn't, for the sake of mounting, recommend that you put power windows on the rear door, even though that is a possibility to solve your problem!

Anyhow, the old Zen door is too shallow to accommodate 3.5" completely inside the door pad, so it HAS to be mounted from the outside.

So, that leaves you 3 options:
1. Hatch. IMHO the total additional weight - about 6 Kgs - is not going to adversely affect the pneumatic lifters; definitely the hinges will not be affected
2. C-pillars with fiberglass 'boxes'
3. Quarter glass mounting:
- Visibility is not so much affected, as you will get used to looking through the rear and hatch windows. It WILL be an "arrey yaar" kind of botheration though
- Since the mounting will require drilling the inside metal sheet and self-tapping metal screws, rattling should not be an issue even in a 10-year old car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen2001 View Post
... its the flimsy panel that's the suspect. Maybe some reinforcements, ...
Fiber glass layer laid on the inside of the door pad takes care of this. You can do it yourself. Check in the DIY section - there are a few threads that show how one does FG work, and what materials one needs
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Old 5th March 2010, 00:41   #42
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
OK, so about 3.5" depth behind mounting plane.
I actually went out and checked an old Zen to relate to the problem! Yes, the winder location is a constraint - not enough space below it. The widest part of the speaker will be right below it. Please do measure accurately once again. I wouldn't, for the sake of mounting, recommend that you put power windows on the rear door, even though that is a possibility to solve your problem!

Anyhow, the old Zen door is too shallow to accommodate 3.5" completely inside the door pad, so it HAS to be mounted from the outside.

So, that leaves you 3 options:
1. Hatch. IMHO the total additional weight - about 6 Kgs - is not going to adversely affect the pneumatic lifters; definitely the hinges will not be affected
2. C-pillars with fiberglass 'boxes'
3. Quarter glass mounting:
- Visibility is not so much affected, as you will get used to looking through the rear and hatch windows. It WILL be an "arrey yaar" kind of botheration though
- Since the mounting will require drilling the inside metal sheet and self-tapping metal screws, rattling should not be an issue even in a 10-year old car
Fiber glass layer laid on the inside of the door pad takes care of this. You can do it yourself. Check in the DIY section - there are a few threads that show how one does FG work, and what materials one needs
So the winder lever issue takes rear door mounting (which needs to be done from outside the panel) out of contention.

Hatch mounting with reinforcement and dampening material sounds like the only option which entails the least labour hassles in terms of fabrication etc.
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Old 10th March 2010, 11:49   #43
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I would like to install oval speakers on the sides of the car in the third row (Scorpio). Installing them on the rear door wouldn't make sense as the third door would dampen the sound emitted from these speakers. Has this done before? I'd appreciate pics and advice if any.
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Old 11th March 2010, 15:47   #44
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I would like to install oval speakers on the sides of the car in the third row (Scorpio). Installing them on the rear door wouldn't make sense as the third door would dampen the sound emitted from these speakers. Has this done before? I'd appreciate pics and advice if any.
Yes you can;here is a pic posted by a fellow bhpian NIP
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Last edited by vigsom : 11th March 2010 at 15:50.
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Old 11th March 2010, 18:29   #45
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@Zen2001,

4" speakers can be accomodated on the rear doors like shown in the image.(Picture taken from the other forum)

Name:  P1100788 Large.jpg
Views: 794
Size:  47.5 KB<br /> <br />
Keeping that aside, please consider few points that are already discussed and listed.<br />
6x9 on the rear door is a over kill. The lower part of the rear door pad doesnt have the space for mounting. Even if you end up deciding a place near the door handle/below the winder handle and compensate the magnet projection inside the door by extra spacers, the speaker will protrude out giving a tough time for rear passengers. The person will give the speaker a kick while getting in and getting out when fixed below.  Also consider that the depth of the door reduces as you try to place it higher. at any place, you have to cut the metal inside to accomodate the magnet. <br /> <br />
All this said and done, the door pad requires atleast 3-4 layers of fibreglass to stay hard. This in-turn adds weight on the door and the plastic clips that lock the door pad in place. <br /> <br />
You yourself have said that you dont want to add more rattles to the car. Keeping all these points I feel the safe place is the quarter glass. It doesnt rattle so much as the MDF doesnt come in contact with the body metal. Mount is covered with a carpet.<br /> <br />
I am sorry if this has demotivated you. But I just wanted to share what I acquired during the research that I did for my own ZEN.<br /> <br />
This may be irreleavant for you. But maybe useful for other zen owners.<br />
I have people at rear for about 1-2 hrs in a month. So I have done something for the rear fill that I will share shortly (Have to take a pic and post)</div>   <div style=

Last edited by shreyasma : 11th March 2010 at 18:34.
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