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Old 5th November 2005, 12:18   #76
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I love that strech. there is a crepe place, a coffee place, an audio saloon, a tatooo parlour and more all in about 30 feet. BTW wish there was parking!

BTW I am hardening to the view that the freq. and phase response cruve of rear speakers should be significantly different from the front speakers. I think JBL/Infinity and co should consider positioning speakers specifically for rear or front use. somethine like 606EF or 606ER or maybe offer a toggle in the crossover.

BTW I also read the VQ literature and I think Infinity might be unwittingly infringing on someone else's patent. When I get time I will try and lay my hands on the details of both.

Variable BL had been around for some time so has variable Mms and Variable Cms I remember AES reading papers to this effect in the 80s and seeing a few prototypes.

Then again most patents have a 17 year life.

Last edited by navin : 5th November 2005 at 12:19.
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:37   #77
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There is a toggle in the crossover. But to offer 2 different SKUs, for the front and rear? Maintain sub inventories of the same model (f & r) when not all cars have the same sized front and rear?
Where customers put ENTIRELY different sounding speakers in the front and rear? In a country where installers cant read wiring diagrams? And dont know what speaker phasing is?
Nightmare old man, a nightmare.
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:44   #78
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the toggle is only a -3db sens drop for the HF. some amps have phase control for HP as well. but i am talking about serious issues here.

in fact i think for the rear a 9db/oct slope work best in my wife's sail. now how do i get that slope? well i tinker and tinker and tinker. it compensates for the relative locations of the tweeter and woofer.

i guess you are right. to do this you'd have to have all your customers as demanding as guys like me.
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:46   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
i guess you are right. to do this you'd have to have all your customers as demanding as guys like me.
NAHEE!!!! NAHEEEEEE!!! Now there's a real nightmare! Just imagine if there were more of you! AIIEEEE!!
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:48   #80
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you'd have to make better amps and speakers and get paid for it. what's wrong with that.
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Old 5th November 2005, 14:03   #81
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Well, we make money because we sell to consumers. Discerning consumers, but consumers nonetheless. If all our customers were as knowledgeable, nitpicky, fussy and worse, knew what they were talking about, we would be out of business. We're trying to sell a speaker at 2000 rupees Navin... The tough part is to provide maximum quality, at that price AND the speaker should be good enough to be called a harman.
Remember, the fussier and smaller the target audience is, the higher the prices would be. I'm sure you know that better than I do.
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Old 5th November 2005, 16:05   #82
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Guys, I am a bit inexperienced at posting pictures. Nevertheless, I am borrowing my neighbour's digital camera, and will attempt posting today as told. I talked to the car-audio outlet owner this morning, and asked him whether his "crew" knew what they were doing, including correct matching of the polarity of the wires. To this, he replied in strong affirmative, referring to the hundreds of installations they had already done. When I told him about the gaps, he told me to come to him on Monday (7th Nov.).

To me, Gunbir's "locks" explanation looks quite likely. But if McLaren knows a better installer, I would definitely like to try him.

Regarding the position of tweeter, one set is installed on the dash using a two-sided sticky tape, and another pair is stuck to the rear upper corners.
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Old 6th November 2005, 00:39   #83
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yikes why are the tweeters not in pods!
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Old 6th November 2005, 02:32   #84
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I took me 2 months and 5 sundyas to complete my install but now I am happy. I got it exactly right as I wanted.

And I agree with SAM and Navin Both. That whyt I have JBL 606C in front and Pioneer 1681 Coaxials in the back. That way diffrent freq response and better budgetting.


I also opted for the sticky tape solution as unfortunately JBL in dash mount rqeuires a huge hole and I was not sure if the plcement will be correct. May be after few months of adjusting them I will finally put them in.

By the way SAM one small deatils the tweeters in the componets do not have a notch on the bottom to take wires out if u decide to put them flush to any surface.
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Old 6th November 2005, 16:13   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranil
By the way SAM one small deatils the tweeters in the componets do not have a notch on the bottom to take wires out if u decide to put them flush to any surface.
Yes, Flush mounting a tweeter in the dash will require a pretty large hole to be cut in the dash.
Actually Pranil there is a VARIETY of hardware in the box of the 606Ce and allows practically any kind of fitting. (Navin, the hardware supplied is the same as the 5010.)
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Old 6th November 2005, 23:37   #86
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dude the 5010 hardware is fantastic, i dont know any other mid-fi company (Polk, Boston, etc...) that offer that level of hardware.
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Old 7th November 2005, 11:17   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin

BTW I also read the VQ literature and I think Infinity might be unwittingly infringing on someone else's patent. When I get time I will try and lay my hands on the details of both.

.
Navin there was Variovent by Dynaudio for aperiodic damping or something.

Dun know much about it and never got a chance to come across one
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Old 7th November 2005, 12:49   #88
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nah the varioent was for aperidoic damping. aperiodic damping is really creating a really lossy box.

you see dynaudio had this idea of really high Q drivers. I mean drivers with Qts of 0.7 etc. Now when you stick a driver like this in a small box (1 cu. ft. or less) you get a really peaky response so they built an air flow resistor on the box that made th box lossy. If you increase QL of the box form say 7 to 15 you drop the LF response which also kils the peak mentioned above.

what i was talking about in my post 76 was changing the characteristics of the driver by either adding mass to the cone (Mms), shorting part of the magnetic circuit (Bl) etc.
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Old 7th November 2005, 23:15   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Yes, Flush mounting a tweeter in the dash will require a pretty large hole to be cut in the dash.
Actually Pranil there is a VARIETY of hardware in the box of the 606Ce and allows practically any kind of fitting. (Navin, the hardware supplied is the same as the 5010.)

Sorry the correct wording should have been surface mounting. The wires get pressed on the bootom ring. The flush mounting kit is excellent with angle postioning but the surface mounting one is not so good. It is menat to be screwed down and also requires hole in the dash to run wires. May be JBL should consider a small 3 M tape and heat shrinkable sleeve for poor souls like us who do not have heart to cut a hole in a brand new car.
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Old 8th November 2005, 10:19   #90
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i dont think any manufacturer allows for surface mouting like you said. in most cases they expect a hole for the wire. I've used Blau, Vifa, Alpine, JBL and Infinity and all have the same. the reason why?

with the wire exposed a small tug ont he wire could damage the tweeter. Tweeter leads are extremely fragile and if the wire is exposed an accidental tug on the wire could damage the tweeter lead.
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