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Old 24th September 2005, 05:01   #1
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Default Need Help in selecting Audio for Swift

Hi,

For past one week, I was doing my research on what Audio system to install on my new Swift ZXi. I checked Blaupunkt showroom, PFM and couple of other shops in Bangalore. I found this forum through google and for past two days, I tried reading as much possible from this forum. Man, there are some serious audio gurus in this forum.

Before starting my homework, I decided on the following configuration:
61/2" component speakers in front
61/2" coaxial or triaxial in the rear
Buget - 30K.
Here are my basic questions:

1. HEAD UNITS:

Confusion about Head Units: I wanted to buy a decent but cheap HU since I might anyway require an amp to drive the components in front.

I narrowed it to Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 (costs 9.5K). My choice was biased by the vario-color display which I can set it to orange which would match the climatic control and dash color.

But, now, PFM offers Alpine 9830 for 13K. I know this is a good unit but I hear complains about not able to read the panel during day time, motorised panel being too slow and changing sound preference will be complicated and cannot be done while driving.

I need an advice on this front. Please suggest me any other HU that is good enough and might fit my buget.

2. Components in Front:

I could check only Velocity VPC 172 in Blaupunkt showroom. It costs 10.5K. I also saw the following speakers but could not hear them.

JBL GTO 606ce (6K)
Polk EX3560 (8.5K)
Cerwin Vega V-Mag 606 (13K)
Polk DB6500 (11K)
Cerwin Vega HED 1602 (8.5K)
Of the lot, only Cerwin Vega V-Mag series gives a good bass output ( Frequency range - 25Hz to 22KHz). I thought I could live without subwoofer if I have V-Mag. Please correct me if I am wrong. Please suggest me which one I should go for.

3. Requirement of AMP

My requirement is a clear sound at low to mid volumes. I would hardly touch half the max volume on any of the Head Units. So do I require an amp for the component speakers?

Also, the amps come with active crossovers. So can I use the crossovers in Amp instead of external crossovers? This way, I could buy a Mid-Bass woofer and a tweeter and use the amp's crossover to get the effect of a component speakers. If this is possible, can we get a mid-bass woofer in India (and in Bangalore)?

The prices for various Amps that I saw (could not hear it though)
JBL GT410 (9.5K)
Sony (not sure of model) (5.3K)
Kenwood 6401 (7.9K)
Blaupunkt GTA 450 (9.5K I think)
4. Do I need a subwoofer

I was very hesistant towards sub since I dont want to lose my boot space. Do I require a sub anyway. Will the the components lack the bass that much that I would miss it?

My listening habits are Pop, country rock, english and indian classical, oldies, etc. I am definitely not into hard rock.

Also, is it possible to fit a subwoofer under the rear seat? Blaupunkt has some thin-line subwoofers but I am not sure of the sound quality and whether it would fit under rear seat. Will Velocity series VRT 6.5 fit under the seat?

Various Subwoofer that I saw are:
Blaupunkt VRT 6.5 (5.5K)
JBL subwoofer 10" (4.5K + box)
Cerwin Vega HED 10" (5K + tube)
Since I have not decided on the HU and Components, I did not look for the rear coaxials.

PRICE ANALYSIS

Now, If I put the price:

Blaupunkt Monterry MP35
+ Velocity VPC 172
+ GTA 450
--------------------------------------------------
9.5 + 10.5 + 9.5 = 29K
--------------------------------------------------

With alpine 9830 = +2.5K
With Kenwood amp instead of Blaupunkt = -1.7K
With Sony amp instead of Blaupunkt = -4.5K
With Cerwin Vega instead of Velocity = +2.5K
With JBL components instead of Velocity = -4.5K


At this point, I am lost. I don't know what to chose from. Please advice.
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Old 24th September 2005, 09:44   #2
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aHa, a thing for our audio experts to deal with for this weekend.

HU: I think all will ask u to go for Alpine, but heard thers a prob with one of it model.

Front: Components . Again

check these links too

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=33

Rear: Coaxial.

Amp: I bet experts will ask u 2 go for it.

Sub: emm, JB says the OD series ( teh slim one sub ) r crap. So maybe they r crap and costly 2 it seems.

Gunbir has the following setup in his car...


HU> 4 Ch Amp > 2 Ch - Tweeters XO 3.15KHz + 2 Ch - Midbass XO 80Hz ~ 3.15KHz
HU> 2 Ch Amp > Bridged Mono - Sub XO 80Hz

I run my HU flat, the amps run flat too, there is no bass boost.

The Image Dynamics speakers and sub are fantastic and almost all listeners cant believe there is only a single pair of components in the front.


Components should give good bass, but again, sub would give liven ur sound space and i think it would better if u have one adn moreover u can take it out when u need the boot .

wait till Navin, JB and Gunbir pour in ther advise. Sam wher ru.. by the way Sam was gonna by a swift and hence maybe u should check out his config too. let me try 2 find if he has posted his config

Last edited by jkdas : 24th September 2005 at 09:45.
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Old 24th September 2005, 11:14   #3
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ya id totally agree with jk..regarding the alpine HU,just checked out the 9833 yesterday,and man isnt that set made for the aliens(an ordinary man wont be able to figure it out for days)..it took a long long time for me to configure the settings and yet im not sure i have been in terms with 40% of it..maybe navin can help out with configuring the settings if i get one..
and ya at the front components are the best bet..even at the back u can use components if u can afford to as the door pods allow that(too bad my zens front doors cant accomodate even the smallest of compos without any mods,let alone the idea of fixing them at the back)..
amps i think u do require to give that additional clarity and better effectiveness to ur sysytem,so the sony combo of 504&502 should do great at the unbelievable price they can be bought at..

and ya a sub is also prefferred to get out those low punches out of ur music and set ur car on fire..preferably a 10'' or 12'' sub with a sealed box enclosure..and in case of a long journey u can always give it a rest at home and use the boot for loading the luggage..

i would suggest u wait for gunbirs and sams replies for the model numbers and specs..

PS: in the mean time just read a thread named "statuatory warning- 10 risks to know before u come to this forum"..haha guys sorry couldnt keep that one out...
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Old 24th September 2005, 11:19   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertClive
61/2" component speakers in front
61/2" coaxial or triaxial in the rear
Buget - 30K.
I narrowed it to Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 (costs 9.5K).
But, now, PFM offers Alpine 9830 for 13K.

2. Components in Front:
I could check only Velocity VPC 172 in Blaupunkt showroom. It costs 10.5K. I also saw the following speakers but could not hear them.

JBL GTO 606ce (6K)
Polk EX3560 (8.5K)
Cerwin Vega V-Mag 606 (13K)
Polk DB6500 (11K)
Cerwin Vega HED 1602 (8.5K)
Of the lot, only Cerwin Vega V-Mag series gives a good bass output ( Frequency range - 25Hz to 22KHz). I thought I could live without subwoofer if I have V-Mag. Please correct me if I am wrong. Please suggest me which one I should go for.

3. Requirement of AMP
The prices for various Amps that I saw (could not hear it though)
JBL GT410 (9.5K)
Sony (not sure of model) (5.3K)
Kenwood 6401 (7.9K)
Blaupunkt GTA 450 (9.5K I think)
4. Do I need a subwoofer

I was very hesistant towards sub since I dont want to lose my boot space. Do I require a sub anyway. Will the the components lack the bass that much that I would miss it?

My listening habits are Pop, country rock, english and indian classical, oldies, etc. I am definitely not into hard rock.

Also, is it possible to fit a subwoofer under the rear seat? Blaupunkt has some thin-line subwoofers but I am not sure of the sound quality and whether it would fit under rear seat. Will Velocity series VRT 6.5 fit under the seat?

Various Subwoofer that I saw are:
Blaupunkt VRT 6.5 (5.5K)
JBL subwoofer 10" (4.5K + box)
Cerwin Vega HED 10" (5K + tube)
At this point, I am lost. I don't know what to chose from. Please advice.
Wow! you are one well researched person. very good. I always said the best customer is a knowledgeable customer.

The Monterrey and 9830 are both nice units. Both companies give good service though if I were to choose I'd say Blau (Mico) gives better service but the Alpine is a nicer sounding unit. Lets leave that choice for later and see if the budget allows both to begin with.

Of the front component speakers you have listed I have only heard the JBL 606 and the Polk DB6500. They are sold at very different price points. I found teh polk bass better and did not like either's high frequencies. I would consider the following: Infinity and Alpine if you prefer a more laid back sound. Note the Polk and JBL are not bad just a bit sweet in the top end for my tastes.

For the amp I would choose between the JBL and the Blaupunkt. I have used both and in my install used the Blaupunkt GTA 450. Both are good amps as is the Alpine 340.

Lets put in the Balupunkt (as much as I like Alpine)
So your Head unit will cost about 9.5K.

Your amp about 9.5K but wait till Sam get son I am not sure if the prices you got are right. I would look at saving some cost here so at to accomodate a sub/amp and or rear speakers.

Lets stick to JBL 606 for the front as the Alpine, Infinity and Polk are all over 10K and would leave you nothing for a sub or rear speakers.

This leaves you about 4K for the rear speakers. A sub would cost more as it would mean adding an amp as well. One nice way to add a bit of bass for the rear is to use the simple 6x9 (2 or 3 way) from Alpine or JBL. I would be quite happy with a 2 way 6x9 if anyone makes these as that would give me the opportunity to tinker with the tweeter's crossover and tame the highs.

One note of caution here: I am not recommending any brands. The only reason I have not listed Hertz (the stuff Gunbir sells) is (a) I am not sure about their availability and (b) I have not heard them at all (I hope to rectify this soon).

Expect to spend a bit on wires as well. The first wire I would upgrade is the RCA-RCA wire from amp to HU. the next would be the speaker cables and then maybe get some nice power wire for the amp.
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Old 24th September 2005, 11:22   #5
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BTW the alpines are not at all difficult to handle. I am not that smart and if i cna do it you young guns should have no trouble.

The 9833 and 9830 are really quite simple once you get the hang of them. So easy that I have on occasion even been able to guide my installer through the setup menu sitting in my office chair.
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Old 24th September 2005, 11:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
BTW the alpines are not at all difficult to handle. I am not that smart and if i can do it you young guns should have no trouble.
now now.. was that meant to be a joke..and im sure the others will soon pitch in about this ..what say navinji..we all young guns put together cant match the the wartanker that u supposedly are with all that technical info at ur finger tips..guns v/s a wartank..already see ourselves on the loosing end of the battle..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 24th September 2005 at 11:48.
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Old 24th September 2005, 11:57   #7
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I posted a query at 5 am in the morning. Had a nap and when I wake up, replies from the gurus to make me think....

I frequently make short trips. I am fond of the 52 Weekends from Bangalore by Outlook Traveller. And during the trips, I would definitely like to have good pleasant audio during the trips.

When I was searching through the forum, I found suggestions on putting subwoofer above the additional tyre at the rear. How is the performance of such a configuration. I don't need a kick ass bass but I would definitely prefer a good mild bass sorround.

Iwas also looking for 8" subs that could go under the seat. I enquired PfM in Bangalore but they dont carry 8" subs anymore.

Given a choice, I would prefer an alternative to having a sub box or tube in boot.

Does anyone have any experience with Cerwin Vega? I was kind of hoping using a Cerwin Vega V-MAG components in front might solve the requirement of a Sub. Cerwin Vega is pretty expensive thought. Costs 13K.

I will drop in the blaupunkt showroom and check the velocity subs one more time and I will let you know.

Thanks guys for your support. I would definitely look for Sam's Configuration for the Swift.
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Old 24th September 2005, 12:05   #8
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I definitely agree with McLaren about the young thing. We need to have as much interest as you gurus have to even come 50% closer to you.

As for me, it would take atleast couple of months more to get the terminologies right.
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Old 24th September 2005, 12:45   #9
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Default Just found out about Blau Monterrey

Blaupunkt Monterrey has only 2V preout. Is this very bad or what? If we use good RCA cables and decent AMP, does signal noise matters?

Should I look for any more HU.
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Old 24th September 2005, 13:03   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertClive
Iwas also looking for 8" subs that could go under the seat. I enquired PfM in Bangalore but they dont carry 8" subs anymore.

Does anyone have any experience with Cerwin Vega? I was kind of hoping using a Cerwin Vega V-MAG components in front might solve the requirement of a Sub. Cerwin Vega is pretty expensive thought. Costs 13K.
I think all Blau now sells in India is the 12" I called my guy in Mumbai and he said the same.

I have not heard the speare tyre or under seat subs ever. I doubt they subs will offer good VFM (bass for the buck) and in India VFM sells.

I think given those limitaions (and your budget) using 2 6x9 in the rear (a 6x9 has about the surface area of a 8") might be your simplest bet. The one 6x9 that impressed me was the Alpine 690A but I am told there are others from JBL, etc...that are just as good. Try and get a 2 way or 3 wayand avoid those 4 or 5 way versions.

Since the crossover on these 6x9s is farily simple one can tame the high freqencies coming from them (or i wold say adjust them to taste) and use them as effectively bass and surround speakers.
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Old 24th September 2005, 16:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertClive
Iwas also looking for 8" subs that could go under the seat. I enquired PfM in Bangalore but they dont carry 8" subs anymore.
Given a choice, I would prefer an alternative to having a sub box or tube in boot.
Hey Rob

For your swift, here's what I suggest...

While your configuration is fine, out of your list, the Polks are the clear winner. The Cervin Vegas dont do anything well in particular and are not worth your hard earned money. Their frequency response figures are also optimistic (creative marketing). If you like warm, lush, full sound have a look at the Hertz Website ... Look at the Energy ESK165 and the Hi-Energy HSK165 comps. Both products have matching Coaxes in their respective ranges.

As for your subs... here are some pics from an install where we have two 8" subs mounted under the front seats.





The problem though is... thats an Innova and trust me it was tough getting those sealed enclosures under there. I dont know how much clearance the Swifts front seats have but I doubt they have enough. BUT, nothing sounds as good as upfront bass.

Anyhow, for your SWS (Spare Wheel Sub), an 8" would work well. Here you can see an 8 inch Image Dynamics ID8D2v3 sub in the spare wheel cavity. Its not installed, just demonsrating that you can do this without losing the spare wheel. All you need to do is make the MDF Infinite Baffle.





We have a lot of 8" subs, such as...

Image Dynamics ID8D2v3
Hertz Energy ES200
Hertz Hi-Energy HX200

As for your HU, you could do better than the Blau. Blaus arent what they used to be. You will get a better combination of features and sound in Pioneer and Alpine.

Now, your Amp(s), look around for a nice 5 channel amp. Its the simplest to install, specially when space is at a premium in a small car. Though it may be out of your budget, have a look at our Audison SRx5. Look for similar, 5ch amps with a small footprint.
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Old 24th September 2005, 19:50   #12
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The ideal setup which i recommend for swift is as following:

Head Unit : Pioneer 7750

Amplifer : Good 5 Channel from Audison, Alpine, Pioneer if out of budget go for 4 channel, run the fronts and sub with amp and HU powering the rears.

Speakers : 6.5" Componets for front stage and 6.5" coaxials for the rear fill (can be added later on)

Subwoofer : 10" in a box or IB install in wheel well as told by gunbir, 8" will be a little less for swift (though all depends on the musical preference)

For subs and speakers you can look for Hertz Energy lineup.
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Old 24th September 2005, 22:23   #13
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I'd thought of a similar setup for my swift and wanted to clarify if I could run the rears thru the Hu and the rest with a 4chaneel amp a sony 504. Youv'e clarified the rear thru HU thing. So, this is the lineup

1. HU - is Sony Cassette 5100 + Sony 10 CD MP3 Changer
2. Fronts - 6.5 compos - JBL/Alpine/Hertz(if i can have a listen to the Hertz range in Hyd)
3. Rear - 6.5 Coax same brand as above.
4. A sony 4 channel amp 504.
5. Subwoofer - Still in doubt - which brand and model no?

The shop guy was suggesting Blaupunkt Velocity Box sub. we also have JBL 1200D. Which brand of these or other would be best.

Also, I'm waiting for some concrete reviews on Soomoku for the Sub.
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Old 25th September 2005, 00:33   #14
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Velocity series VPC 172 component will not fit the Swift since the depth is too much. Also their tube subs sucks. I listened to VRT 10 fitted in Wagon R and I started questioning about blaupunkt. The Bass was very isolated and did not go well with the front stage. This may be because of the 4" drivers in the front in Wagon R.

I am definitely willing to give 8" Hertz subs a try. How shall I do it in Bangalore?????? Are there any other 8" subs I could look for. ES200 subs with 200W rms is way too much than I would need.

Are there any other components other than JBL 606ce in price range of 8K? I definitely liked Blaupunkt velocity components and that is because it is the only components that I listened to.

As for as 5 channel Amp is concerned, Blaupunkt is priced at 23K. I don't think that will fit my budget in any way.

Both pioneer 7750 and 5750 has three preamp but not sure of voltage. I guess the only difference is the organic blue display display and iTunes format support in 7750. I could live without those if 5750 is cheaper by considerable amount.
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Old 25th September 2005, 00:47   #15
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How would you rate the following:

1. Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 with 2V Preamp out for all channels at Rs 9500 with one year warranty
2. Alpine 9830 with 4V Preout at Rs 13000 without B&W
3. Pioneer 7750 (not sure of preout volt) (not sure of prices also) without B&W
4. Pioneer 5750 (not sure of preout volt) (not sure of price also) without B&W
5. Sony CDX-7710 with 4V preout for Rs 12000 with B&W
6. Sony CDX-5810 with 4V preout for Rs 8500 with B&W

Any money saved, I can spend it on better speakers.

Last edited by RobertClive : 25th September 2005 at 00:56.
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