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Old 27th March 2010, 22:36   #16
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
First things first -

1. The "Brand" or "Manufacturer", i.e. GZ is not handling your service. It would be incorrect to name them as a deficient party wrt the services you are (not) getting.

2. There is no warranty on the product when it is sold by the original owner irrespective of whether 1 year has transpired since the original sale. None of the parties are really obliged to give you service. They can very well decline to help you altogether. I see this is not the case.

3. Irrespective of the above two facts, I think the matter should have been handled much better.



It's a dual 2 ohm subwoofer, not dual 4 ohm. Not that it matters, I believe it must have been hooked up with voice coils in series, to the amp in concern.



Firstly, I don't know why LBM is involved in this. Maybe he wanted to help you as a dealer for GZ. He has not sold the sub to you, has he?

I suppose he voluntarily agreed to ship the sub to Hermit Audio, Mumbai to get the sub reconed. I also assume that the recone kit for the 30SPL was not available with Hermit at that time, which is perhaps the reason for the delay. After the sub was reconed, I assume the sub was not packed properly causing it to be damaged.

Few facts about out-of-warranty service.

1. You have to request the concerned distributor either through a dealer, or if the dealer declines (since you have not purchased through him), directly to the distributor. Even the distributor may express their inability to help you out on the grounds of parts not being available.

2. The product has to be shipped at your risk and expense to and back from the distributor.

Unfortunately for LBM, it seems like he has somehow taken the responsibility to ship the product out to Hermit and get it back. Do you want to blame him for that?

As for the damage during return shipping - As long as I was with Hermit, we had a strict policy that any customer's goods were insured at our end to be delivered to the customer in perfect condition. If there was any damage, it was our responsibility, and the customer was entitled to a replacement. I don't know if they still work that way. Check with them. Write to them and explain the matter to them in detail as you have in this thread here. I'm sure LBM too has done the same, but you need to follow this up yourself.



Don't write such things to them. As I told you, they really do not have any obligation towards resold products.



It's a well-built, tried and tested product, that does exactly what the box says. Don't play that line with Hermit. And you are indeed liable for damage to it, since it's not in warranty.



1000W rms "SPL Power". The 30 SPL is 500 W rms in the true sense of power handling in Watts, RMS. SPL Power means short bursts, not continuous. 30SPL has the same motor and coil as the 12XD-AL which states 500 W rms as the power handling.



Again, not the brand i.e. GZ. They are not in this loop in any way when they are represented by a distributor here.

Well you have a lot to say here. Is there anywhere documented that

1000W rms "SPL Power". The 30 SPL is 500 W rms in the true sense of power handling in Watts, RMS.
if this is the case then why not rate the Sub as 500Watts. I have seen subs taking more of their rated Waatages with ease. I dont say that its a inferior product but surely somewhere something is wrong.

Regarding LBM present in that case I didnt knew he was not getting it done from GZ and if GZ is not involved where can i get a original Voice Coil as replacement.

Moreover i think we Bhpians are ready to help each other when necessary if things have changed with time i would not know. LBM just helped me out there is nothing wrong he did neither did i said something about him.Abhinav bought the Woofer from him so i got in touch with him and he agreed to help me out and he is completely right. I am writing things here after things went out of his hand after asking from him

I know there is no warranty but is warranty everything about a product. Cant i get a repair even after the warranty is over or is the Brand is only ready to Cater new products and after one year they are not responsible for A.S.S. For me Hermit is GZ here. To a consumer the distributor is important but not everything.

IF the kit was not available for recone what would have happened if the sub would have been in warranty. They would have done something but as this was not in warranty it was taken for granted. Thats a not the correct attitude.
I would have required a more honest attitude here. If this was not possible then it should have been told to me and i would have bought another sub. Honestly i would have said nothing about it. IF after 5 months i am writing things i would be right a little bit and most frustrated. I think this is the most i am gonna right. I don't have energy to fight for anything here now.

Whats done is done now. No point is fighting over it. But i am pretty displeased at the treatment i got.Its became more of a business thing here.

P.S:LBM Paaji tried almost everything to help me out. I am very thankful to him for his efforts.
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Old 27th March 2010, 22:46   #17
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Some info about measurement of SPL Audio power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if i am wrong somewhere please correct me
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Old 28th March 2010, 09:00   #18
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I thought the FTC had settled the matter
If they had would PMPO still be around. I see adverts for such things as "MUsic Power" and wonder what that is after all my home amp is a measly 25W rms (or maybe 30W).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
I have seen subs taking more of their rated Waatages with ease.
100W at 20Hz and 100W at 200Hz will put very different stress on a subwoofer.

In most cases it is the physical limits of the subwofer (you mgith have seen something called Xmax being used) that determines how much power and at what frequency the subwoofer can handle.

Xmax is also much mis-used. The only X-max measurement that makes any sense is "Linear, One-Way, X-max". Divide Peak-to-Peak by 4 and you'll get the linear one way numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
Some info about measurement of SPL Audio power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if i am wrong somewhere please correct me
Nothing wrong, the question however is how much excursion did the woofer have.

In general GZ make a decent product. My nephew has them in his car and he abuses these subs (and his ears) regularly. Young adults, sometimes, wont listen to us old people. I suspect (just a suspicion) that the voice coil got detached from the cone as this is a bond that can give way far more regularly than a voice coil buring out. Without a reconing kit and proper installing and measuring tools you cannot fit a new cone.

Do let us know when you finally get your woofer.
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Old 28th March 2010, 15:14   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
If they had would PMPO still be around. I see adverts for such things as "MUsic Power" and wonder what that is after all my home amp is a measly 25W rms (or maybe 30W).



100W at 20Hz and 100W at 200Hz will put very different stress on a subwoofer.

In most cases it is the physical limits of the subwofer (you mgith have seen something called Xmax being used) that determines how much power and at what frequency the subwoofer can handle.

Xmax is also much mis-used. The only X-max measurement that makes any sense is "Linear, One-Way, X-max". Divide Peak-to-Peak by 4 and you'll get the linear one way numbers.



Nothing wrong, the question however is how much excursion did the woofer have.

In general GZ make a decent product. My nephew has them in his car and he abuses these subs (and his ears) regularly. Young adults, sometimes, wont listen to us old people. I suspect (just a suspicion) that the voice coil got detached from the cone as this is a bond that can give way far more regularly than a voice coil buring out. Without a reconing kit and proper installing and measuring tools you cannot fit a new cone.

Do let us know when you finally get your woofer.
Bhai. i totally understand what you wanna convey here. I am waiting for it if i ever get it back
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Old 28th March 2010, 15:39   #20
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@greenhorn - LOL. This turns my electrical engineering fundamentals upside down. But B&T's remark is quite useful for reference. Good insight. thanks B&T

@B&T - I think Piyush is highlighting another point. There are brands that are much raved/feted on TeamBHP which do sell a fair bit through word of mouth channels like teamBHP - many people here wouldn't have bought GZ (for eg) if it was not for teamBHP. Here is a customer who for whatever reason has not got his sub back after 5 months. He's definitely not putting it most eruditely but he has got a right to be pissed. Don't TBHPians write emails to mfrs and start a moan thread here within hours when the service center does a below par service?? Sorry but your post could've been more friendly than legalese/defensiveness.

@abhinav - cmon. GZ and Bentley - what a comparison. Maybe with Palio would've been better

@Piyush - The thread is wrongly/emotionally titled.

Last edited by phamilyman : 28th March 2010 at 15:44.
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Old 28th March 2010, 20:38   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Now that's a new & very creative way of measuring RMS power .
All of the GZ subs that end with "SPL" are rated at "SPL Power" aka "Competition Power". This is a useful measure for SPL competitors, and not a gimmick. It gives competitors an idea about how much short term power can be fed to the sub during a drag without blowing it. So, to answer your question - Yes, it is indeed new and creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
Is there anywhere documented that
1000W rms "SPL Power". The 30 SPL is 500 W rms in the true sense of power handling in Watts, RMS.
if this is the case then why not rate the Sub as 500Watts.
I think I have explained the wattage logic above. If you look at the user manual also, you will see that power handling is stated as "SPL Power".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
Regarding LBM present in that case I didnt knew he was not getting it done from GZ and if GZ is not involved where can i get a original Voice Coil as replacement.
The distributor has the option of ordering and stocking original soft parts replacement kits for all subs except the most basic ones. Whether they do that or not is their choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
IF the kit was not available for recone what would have happened if the sub would have been in warranty. They would have done something but as this was not in warranty it was taken for granted. Thats a not the correct attitude.
They would have to organize a replacement subwoofer if the kit was not available in warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
Whats done is done now. No point is fighting over it. But i am pretty displeased at the treatment i got.Its became more of a business thing here.
Exactly. There's no point fighting. Which is why I am asking you to take it up with the distributor, stating all the facts that you have already in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
@B&T - I think Piyush is highlighting another point. There are brands that are much raved/feted on TeamBHP which do sell a fair bit through word of mouth channels like teamBHP - many people here wouldn't have bought GZ (for eg) if it was not for teamBHP. Here is a customer who for whatever reason has not got his sub back after 5 months. He's definitely not putting it most eruditely but he has got a right to be pissed. Don't TBHPians write emails to mfrs and start a moan thread here within hours when the service center does a below par service?? Sorry but your post could've been more friendly than legalese/defensiveness.
I'm not taking any sides here and I have no business defending GZ/ Distributor. I am just giving him information based on my experience as to how companies could choose to deal with such an issue. I could sugar coat it, but no point misleading him into believing that sitting pretty/ saying some strong words/ turning to any form of defamation etc. with the distributor is going to solve his issue. I am merely advising him to take it up in the best possible way, given the circumstances. Please don't think I am not sympathizing with Piyush, I really feel sorry. If there was anything more that I could do to help him, I would, as I'm sure many other Bhpians would probably confirm based on their interactions with me. But unfortunately I am not associated in any way.

Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 28th March 2010 at 20:40.
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Old 28th March 2010, 21:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
All of the GZ subs that end with "SPL" are rated at "SPL Power" aka "Competition Power". This is a useful measure for SPL competitors, and not a gimmick. It gives competitors an idea about how much short term power can be fed to the sub during a drag without blowing it. So, to answer your question - Yes, it is indeed new and creative.



I think I have explained the wattage logic above. If you look at the user manual also, you will see that power handling is stated as "SPL Power".
But then why Drag RMS into the picture. An alternative like , say Peak Musical Power Output would make the rating more self explanatory without sounding misleading
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Old 28th March 2010, 23:48   #23
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Mods i think may be the title of thread should be changed to something more appropriate. Please change as per need.
B&T bro: I totally understand your point but i hope you also understand the plight of a person who couldn't get his hands on his Sub gone for repair. It would have been better if they would have straight away said NO and i would have got another Sub. I waited for 5 months. Thats a long time....

I am still waiting. I will again get in touch with LBM bro who is also feeling very helpless after this episode. he tried almost everything to help me out.

To All :Guys you have been of great support and help here.. Lets see when i get my Sub back or else i am going to get a Morel Ultimo
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Old 29th March 2010, 14:22   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
B&T bro: I totally understand your point but i hope you also understand the plight of a person who couldn't get his hands on his Sub gone for repair. It would have been better if they would have straight away said NO and i would have got another Sub. I waited for 5 months. Thats a long time....
Which is why I suggest you take it up directly with the distributor. If they broke your sub, they owe you a replacement, even if it is a used sub with a blown coil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
Lets see when i get my Sub back or else i am going to get a Morel Ultimo
Good luck with getting the sub back. And, erm, speaking of Ultimos, I just got gifted a pair of those for my car.
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Old 29th March 2010, 14:50   #25
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
The distributor has the option of ordering and stocking original soft parts replacement kits for all subs except the most basic ones. Whether they do that or not is their choice.

Exactly. There's no point fighting. Which is why I am asking you to take it up with the distributor, stating all the facts that you have already in this thread.
Piyush, It is my understanding that the matter is already with the distributor. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush_Vroom View Post
I waited for 5 months...
You are a patient man. Have you not contacted the distributor?

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
speaking of Ultimos, I just got gifted a pair of those for my car.
B&T are these from Morel Israel or Morel USA - you know whole sordid drama dont you (I got caught between the 2 parties once; in the early 90s - man, the fur flew).
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Old 29th March 2010, 20:18   #26
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B&T are these from Morel Israel or Morel USA - you know whole sordid drama dont you (I got caught between the 2 parties once; in the early 90s - man, the fur flew).
Lol. These are from Morel, Israel.
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Old 29th March 2010, 22:33   #27
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Which is why I suggest you take it up directly with the distributor. If they broke your sub, they owe you a replacement, even if it is a used sub with a blown coil.



Good luck with getting the sub back. And, erm, speaking of Ultimos, I just got gifted a pair of those for my car.
Yup . I had a talk with LBM today and he told me that things are rolling now.

Wow!!!! Thats great. They seriously cost a bomb here as compared to their prices in USA!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Piyush, It is my understanding that the matter is already with the distributor. Right?



You are a patient man. Have you not contacted the distributor?



B&T are these from Morel Israel or Morel USA - you know whole sordid drama dont you (I got caught between the 2 parties once; in the early 90s - man, the fur flew).
Yes Navin bhai the matter is with distributor now.


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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Lol. These are from Morel, Israel.
When can i get mine . DO they have Morel Ultimo's in their lineup or i can get that from US only.

Last edited by Piyush_Vroom : 29th March 2010 at 22:40.
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Old 30th March 2010, 00:36   #28
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When can i get mine . DO they have Morel Ultimo's in their lineup or i can get that from US only.
Ultimo's are pretty much available here, last I had checked it and had got a quote of 35-40k. MRP is above 50K. Your 850rms amp will beautifully with one of these. But they carry lower sensitivity of 85db and are best rated for SQ.

Last edited by Invinsible : 30th March 2010 at 00:37.
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Old 30th March 2010, 09:46   #29
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Lol. These are from Morel, Israel.
Not so LOL if you stuck between the 2. I met party 1 first and opened my big mouth no knowning that they had had a falling out, then I met party 2 and he was ashened faced that I even had the gall to meet party 1 - apparently someone had told them that I visited party 1's room (at a show).

I dont go to audio shows now. I love all of audio and dont want to be caught in the crossfire again. India is just as bad, there are guys who dont like people you and I like (you know the names) for reasons I just dont care for.
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Old 30th March 2010, 14:50   #30
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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Ultimo's are pretty much available here, last I had checked it and had got a quote of 35-40k. MRP is above 50K. Your 850rms amp will beautifully with one of these. But they carry lower sensitivity of 85db and are best rated for SQ.
I am planning to get 2 of them.Alas!!! I have Swift...Whom i can contact for these? I think LBM can help me out on this?I am planning to Move to SQ now
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