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Old 3rd June 2010, 12:22   #31
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Any other choices in the same range / budget?
JL and DLS have offerings in the same budget.

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JL Audio 300/4 v2

The problem with most amps, apart from everything else is - where will I install them?!! I dont think I can put a 22" long amp under the seat (or can I?), and add the monoblock to it! I am worried for my car's boot space now!
Of the 3 I'd take the JL.

nice places to intall.
a. On side wall of car near fuel tank (the opposite wall which has more space since there is no fuel tank can then hold your subwoofer in a custom FG box).
b. on rear of rear seat
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Old 3rd June 2010, 23:00   #32
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JL and DLS have offerings in the same budget.

Of the 3 I'd take the JL.

nice places to intall.
a. On side wall of car near fuel tank (the opposite wall which has more space since there is no fuel tank can then hold your subwoofer in a custom FG box).
b. on rear of rear seat
JL it is then!! Thanks for settling the amp part... (am not able to find any discounts / offers on DLS like I am for the JL, hence the choice)
...now let me order the amp and the sub, and then get to the components!

am not worried too much about the sub's install - the g51044 can sit in as little as 0.5cuft sealed, which, ofcourse will be a removable box. If I put the amps on the rear seat's rear, then am thinking how will I fold the seat if required. Maybe I will create a MDF plank extending from the sub's enclosure, holding the amps and the components, and have the connections removable. haven't thought that thru yet, but hey, there is plenty of time to wait for the stuff to be carried back to India!
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Old 7th June 2010, 06:11   #33
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Here is what I have now:

4-Channel AMP - JL Audio 300/4v2 (yet to order)
Mono block - Alpine PDX 1.600 (have it already)
Components - Front - JL Audio C5-650 (75W RMS, 3/4" Silk Dome Tweeters) (yet to order)
Components - Back - Illusion Audio EL6.1 (have it already)
Sub-woofer - Boston Acoustics G5 104

It would take a month or two for these stuff to reach me. I am also looking at noisekill / dynamat extreme for damping. Still toying with attempting a DIY

EDIT: how is DLS Reference R6A in comparison to the JL C5 components?
(Damn! It is so difficult to make up my mind!)

Last edited by ph03n!x : 7th June 2010 at 06:22.
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Old 7th June 2010, 09:36   #34
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EDIT: how is DLS Reference R6A in comparison to the JL C5 components?
(Damn! It is so difficult to make up my mind!)
If you do not use your ears (I know it is diffcult given the availability but unfortunately that is how it is) you will forever be confused. There are many other brands like Rainbow, Focal, etc... that could confuse you still further.

Both JL and DLS are good components. Each one of them has slightly diffferent characteristics - how can we know how uch tadka you like with your dal?

This is why I do not subscribe to magazines. The reviewers taste might not be anything close to mine and if I am to go by reviewers taste I will be building a system for the reviwers and not me.

Good speaker (car and home audio) companies have a set of listeners who help 'voice' their premier speakers. These listeners might be a combination of employees, consultants, and just plain ordinary folk with good ears. Once the premier lines are voiced the characteristics are carried through to the lesser liines with allowances for the variances in driver response (a carbon cone driver will have different break up nodes than a cheaper poly cone driver) and complexity of crossover (premier lines have more care taken with respect to driver anamolies).

Do not trust the ears of reviewers (no matter how reputed) or designers (no matter how reputed). You can however trust these people to produce a good quality product and that is where it stops. The only ears you SHOULD trust are your own.
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Old 7th June 2010, 15:08   #35
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Thanks navinji! That, am sure, is the best audiophile advice ever!

Like you said, we do not get to listen to all the choices. In general, I feel that metallic tweeters are more in the face, and silk are laid back- like the way I want. I'd also want some good bass from the mids. That's what got me on to the C5 (am I mistaken anywhere?). DLS, I read, has a 1" tweeter as against the 3/4" in the C5 - though I don't know how DLS sounds like, I didn't know what would be the effect of a larger tweeter (is it better?). Hence the confusion (that, and the DLS reference being pretty much lesser priced than C5)...
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Old 7th June 2010, 16:15   #36
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That's what got me on to the C5 (am I mistaken anywhere?). DLS, I read, has a 1" tweeter as against the 3/4" in the C5 - though I don't know how DLS sounds like, I didn't know what would be the effect of a larger tweeter (is it better?). Hence the confusion (that, and the DLS reference being pretty much lesser priced than C5)...
Generally most silk domes are considered to be more laid back than metal domes but there are many very good metal domes out there. Silk domes however are easier to design XOs and surrounds for as there is no ringing to filter.

Surround materials have become a lot better since the mid 90s. I have seen some that are very 'dead' - Jordan, Audax, ScanSpeak have been using these surrounds since the 90s. With the advent of LMS-Leap (in the 80s) etc.. XO design has also become possible for almost anyone with the inclination to do so.

3/4" domes have a higher Fs than 1" domes and hence cannot handle as much power and as much excursion as 1" domes but they do have better dispersion at 10kHz+.

in the end you cannot look at a few parameters in isolation but the system (drivers, XO, install) as a whole - which is why listening is so important.
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Old 8th June 2010, 10:52   #37
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Default Difference between 1" and 3/4" tweeters and silk VS metal

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
Thanks navinji! That, am sure, is the best audiophile advice ever!

Like you said, we do not get to listen to all the choices. In general, I feel that metallic tweeters are more in the face, and silk are laid back- like the way I want. I'd also want some good bass from the mids. That's what got me on to the C5 (am I mistaken anywhere?). DLS, I read, has a 1" tweeter as against the 3/4" in the C5 - though I don't know how DLS sounds like, I didn't know what would be the effect of a larger tweeter (is it better?). Hence the confusion (that, and the DLS reference being pretty much lesser priced than C5)...
So R6A ?

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Generally most silk domes are considered to be more laid back than metal domes but there are many very good metal domes out there. Silk domes however are easier to design XOs and surrounds for as there is no ringing to filter.

Surround materials have become a lot better since the mid 90s. I have seen some that are very 'dead' - Jordan, Audax, ScanSpeak have been using these surrounds since the 90s. With the advent of LMS-Leap (in the 80s) etc.. XO design has also become possible for almost anyone with the inclination to do so.

3/4" domes have a higher Fs than 1" domes and hence cannot handle as much power and as much excursion as 1" domes but they do have better dispersion at 10kHz+.

in the end you cannot look at a few parameters in isolation but the system (drivers, XO, install) as a whole - which is why listening is so important.
Navin, that was a good info. Was searching for this.
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:41   #38
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So R6A ?
Am thinking DLS Ultimate UP6i
But that is a 150W RMS component, and my amp is only 75W RMS per channel - and I really do not intend to go for another round of upgrades for a year atleast - so, does it make sense to go for a speaker whose rated RMS is twice my Amp's?!

Am also waiting for auditioning a friend's JL setup...
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Old 9th June 2010, 01:18   #39
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I have always mentioned this in other threads, have you tried playing 50-60rms comps with the Headunit which is rated max at 18rms. Have you noticed when you try to push the volume for the desired output and the sound it gives at the volume sounds distorted. Thats coz the amp has a limited and by pushing it the signal starts clipping. Whats the solution people suggest, add an external amp. Result? Well the sound is more cleaner, low freq is more defined and highs are crystal clear. under powering any speaker or sub is not good as long as you dont push hard. If you dont you are fine with 75rms but if you do matching the powe rating to that of the speaker will not only make it sound much cleaner but the midbass will be more punchier.
If not I would say stick to speakers rated max at 100rms.
Having more amp headroom is always good as one would set the gains lower making the sound more cleaner by not adding any clipping signal.
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Old 9th June 2010, 02:10   #40
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Makes sense. So a 75W JL C5 or a 80W DLS R6A makes sense for my choice of Amp. What is the signature sound of the DLS? I can audition the JL, but cant see anyone I know here who has a DLS...
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:12   #41
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I totally agree with Invinsible. The UP6i set deserves a lot more than 75W.

Quick question, slightly offtopic though. How can we best use a 4 channel amp providing 75W per channel with a 150W component set. Is it possible to use the left channels of the front/rear amp output and provide a joint input to the left crossover unit and likewise for the right channel. I understand this is not better than providing individual channels for tweeter and midbass but is it feasible for any component set?

@ph03n!x
I am using the DLS R6A set for couple of months now. Smooth tweeter, punchy mid-bass and detailed sound. You can read more here
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Old 9th June 2010, 11:39   #42
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Quick question, slightly offtopic though. How can we best use a 4 channel amp providing 75W per channel with a 150W component set. Is it possible to use the left channels of the front/rear amp output and provide a joint input to the left crossover unit and likewise for the right channel. I understand this is not better than providing individual channels for tweeter and midbass but is it feasible for any component set?

@ph03n!x
I am using the DLS R6A set for couple of months now. Smooth tweeter, punchy mid-bass and detailed sound. You can read more here
What you mean is if you can bridge the amp - Yes, you can. Check the amp's documentation on how to go about bridging it.

And thanks for the link, let me go through it!! (EDIT: I have already read your review, just realized when I started reading it!)

Last edited by ph03n!x : 9th June 2010 at 11:40.
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Old 9th June 2010, 11:58   #43
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Am thinking DLS Ultimate UP6i
But that is a 150W RMS component...
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Makes sense. So a 75W JL C5 or a 80W DLS R6A makes sense for my choice of Amp....
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I totally agree with Invinsible. The UP6i set deserves a lot more than 75W.
this can be esaily determined by the senstivity specs of the speaker. If the speaker is say 90db/1w/0.5m (car audio speakers are usually rated at 0.5m instead of 1m as they are installed closer to the listener) then you are fine even with 75W. At 10W the speaker will be close to 100db which is pretty loud and you still have about 9db in headroom. If however speaker senstivity rating is 82db/1W/0.5db you will need the extra 3db of power (150W/75W is 3db).
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Old 9th June 2010, 12:51   #44
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The UP6i are rated 88 db (1W / 1m), don't know (or dumb me didn't understand the math) how the calculation you have explained is arrived at...

...but the ICE bug is biting off huge chunks of me - the JL 450/4 is my carrot now (150W x 2 + 75W x 2)! I started off with a budget of $600 max, and now the amp itself is eating into $500, needless to include the UP6i and the Boston G5.


Last edited by ph03n!x : 9th June 2010 at 13:05.
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Old 9th June 2010, 13:07   #45
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What's your budget on the front comps?
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