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Old 3rd November 2005, 15:58   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
ok here it goes dmitri..maybe its on the other end that is the opposite end where u are to connect ur speaker wires..do check on it..
http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/media/d...left041021.jpg

the pic of the other side of that amp

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...onomy_id=25-29

Last edited by jkdas : 3rd November 2005 at 16:01. Reason: added an extra link
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Old 4th November 2005, 10:27   #32
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according to this link

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=14518

crossovers: YES
Variable: NO
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Old 4th November 2005, 11:33   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
according to this link

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=14518

crossovers: YES
Variable: NO
hhhmm..thats very strange..a few websites mention it as variable and few as non-variable..but to end all these confusions here is a link to the official pioneer website australia where it is clearly mentioned both LPF and HPF is constant at 80Hz, -12dB/oct..
hope that helps..
http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/car_ent...ex.html#anch_3

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 4th November 2005 at 11:38.
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Old 19th December 2005, 22:11   #34
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Smile Help me in finalizing!!!

Guys, I am planning to put the amp this weekend.

I got the following choices now.

1.JBL CS50.4(New!), new model with 70W RMS per channel, Rs 8990 with bill and warranty.
2.JBL CS50.4, 50W RMS per channel, old model Rs 6800 in grey.
3.Blaupunkt GTA 470, 70W RMS per channel with Bill and Warranty @ Rs 8075(after 15% employee discount for bosch employees); MRP is 9500.
4.Blaupunkt GTA 5000,35W RMS per channel x 4 and 110WRMS x 1( This is a two year old model and was used for only 2 months, i am getting it for Rs 6000)

All these have the variable electronic crossover which i am looking for.

Currently i want the amp to power a pair of Infinity Reference 5010CS components and Lighting Audio 6x9s in the rear. Both speakers are capable of taking upto 75W RMS.
I am thinking of getting a monoblock later and install a sub.

Note : I am ready to stretch my budget to 8k from my previous 6k.
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Old 19th December 2005, 22:41   #35
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dmitri, i feel if you have decieded to power your rears and components and not a sub to the amp then i feel it would be better if you consider the pioneer 6100f amp. look i too have a new esteem too(23-10-2005) and my setup of pioneer-P1Y, Jbl-gto936 and Ma-Audio Y3040k fronts run amazingly well with the pio amp. I had the blau gto470 installed around 4 days back but i didnt enjoy the sound soo much so got it replaced with the pio the very next day. Believe me to run 4 speakers this amp is a jewel atleast at my budget which was around 8-10k.

I have heard from a few installers in milan subway, mumbai that the blau amp is better suited if you plan to bridge the 2 channels and power a sub(200 watts rms) compared to the pio which is 150 watts rms. Hence i feel that since you don't wish to power a sub through this amp, a pio would be better suited to your setup.

And since your head unit is also a pioneer i somehow feel that the 6100 will suit it better coz its also pioneer

I noticed that you have the infinity fronts which are 5 inch components. Wonder how you fit them in the dash of the esteem which are strictly 4 inch pods
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Old 20th December 2005, 06:55   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
1.JBL CS50.4(New!), new model with 70W RMS per channel, Rs 8990 with bill
4.Blaupunkt GTA 5000,35W RMS per channel x 4 and 110WRMS x 1( This is a two year old model and was used for only 2 months, i am getting it for Rs 6000)
hoping that JBL has improved on the old 50.4 the new 50.4 might be smoother and offer you best sound of the 4 you have listed. the Blau 5000 would be great VFM too.
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:26   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
hoping that JBL has improved on the old 50.4 the new 50.4 might be smoother and offer you best sound of the 4 you have listed. the Blau 5000 would be great VFM too.
I have a doubt navin, do i need to go for a high powered amp for the coax/comps as i have already planned to go for a monoblock amp and a sub later for the bass. Will the 35W RMS suffix? and how will be the sound quality of the GTA 5000 considering its an old design.

The Pioneer 5750 is having 22W RMS per channel, so do i feel more power if i put the 35W RMS per channel amplifier?
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:31   #38
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Hi prince, thank you for your reply. Well i have put MDF rings in the front door pad and mounted the woofers and flush mounted the tweeters a little above that. It sounds good though not much bass coming from those. The door pads rattle and create some noise at some bass frequencies, so i want to control the frequency of the signal fed to the components. That is the reason i am going for an amplifier with variable crossover. As per my knowledge the pioneer 6100f doesn't have that feature, well you can confirm that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prince85
dmitri, i feel if you have decieded to power your rears and components and not a sub to the amp then i feel it would be better if you consider the pioneer 6100f amp. look i too have a new esteem too(23-10-2005) and my setup of pioneer-P1Y, Jbl-gto936 and Ma-Audio Y3040k fronts run amazingly well with the pio amp. I had the blau gto470 installed around 4 days back but i didnt enjoy the sound soo much so got it replaced with the pio the very next day. Believe me to run 4 speakers this amp is a jewel atleast at my budget which was around 8-10k.

I have heard from a few installers in milan subway, mumbai that the blau amp is better suited if you plan to bridge the 2 channels and power a sub(200 watts rms) compared to the pio which is 150 watts rms. Hence i feel that since you don't wish to power a sub through this amp, a pio would be better suited to your setup.

And since your head unit is also a pioneer i somehow feel that the 6100 will suit it better coz its also pioneer

I noticed that you have the infinity fronts which are 5 inch components. Wonder how you fit them in the dash of the esteem which are strictly 4 inch pods
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Old 20th December 2005, 17:20   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
I have a doubt navin, do i need to go for a high powered amp for the coax/comps as i have already planned to go for a monoblock amp and a sub later for the bass. Will the 35W RMS suffix? and how will be the sound quality of the GTA 5000 considering its an old design.

The Pioneer 5750 is having 22W RMS per channel, so do i feel more power if i put the 35W RMS per channel amplifier?
your Pio is 22W rms at probably 10% distortion at 1KhZ. 35w RMS 0.1% distortion, 20-20,000Hz is enough for most sensitive speakers. remember the difference between 35 and 50W is about 2db.
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Old 30th December 2005, 10:14   #40
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Hi guys,

Finally I installed the JBL CS60.4 in my car(esteem) powering 2 Infinity Refernence Comps in the front and two Lightning Audio 6x9s in the back(connected parallely to the front channel). The rear channel is bridged to power a Rockford Fosgate Punch Stage 1 subwoofer(loaded prefab subwoofer PL1-112) put in the trunk.

I have some doubts at this point, my trunk lid and reg. plate rattles when i turn up the volume. Currently the sub is facing to the back of the car, is this a good setup? Also two holes are drilled in the parcel tray to bring the sound waves in.

Also Sam I need your help in setting the crossovers as i am very much confused on it.

I understood the working of the HPF - the 32-320Hz filter will provide less bass when i turn it to the 320Hz side.

When the setting is to the LPF side - What all frequencies will it cut? @ what all positions.

Also I couldnot feel much change in the bass as I change the Bassboost. Can you explain how is this bassboost working?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
Guys,

Need help in buying a 4 channel amp for my car(esteem) audio setup. I want the amp to power a pair of Infinity Reference 5010cs comps in the front and Lightning Audio Bolt 6x9s at the rear.Both these speakers are 75W RMS and 225W Peak. I have shortlisted Sony 504Z(VFM)/JBL CS 50.4

The Blaupunkt GTA470(70W p.channel) is also in my mind but its bit outta budget . My budget is around 6K.

Also i got an offer for an used Pioneer GM-X564 from my friend.Is this a good amp? Its pretty old model i think. This one has got almost equal specs at 50W RMS per channel.

Please guide me....

Regards,
Dmitri

Note: My HU is Pioneer 5750.
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Old 30th December 2005, 11:46   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
Hi guys,

Finally I installed the JBL CS60.4 in my car(esteem) powering 2 Infinity Refernence Comps in the front and two Lightning Audio 6x9s in the back(connected parallely to the front channel). The rear channel is bridged to power a Rockford Fosgate Punch Stage 1 subwoofer(loaded prefab subwoofer PL1-112) put in the trunk.

I have some doubts at this point, my trunk lid and reg. plate rattles when i turn up the volume. Currently the sub is facing to the back of the car, is this a good setup? Also two holes are drilled in the parcel tray to bring the sound waves in.

Also Sam I need your help in setting the crossovers as i am very much confused on it.

I understood the working of the HPF - the 32-320Hz filter will provide less bass when i turn it to the 320Hz side.

When the setting is to the LPF side - What all frequencies will it cut? @ what all positions.

Also I couldnot feel much change in the bass as I change the Bassboost. Can you explain how is this bassboost working?

Set both HPF & LPF at 100-120 first and then try to reduce it to point where u like it.It should be around 80Hz.
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Old 30th December 2005, 12:06   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
Hi guys,

Finally I installed the JBL CS60.4 in my car(esteem) powering 2 Infinity Refernence Comps in the front and two Lightning Audio 6x9s in the back(connected parallely to the front channel). The rear channel is bridged to power a Rockford Fosgate Punch Stage 1 subwoofer(loaded prefab subwoofer PL1-112) put in the trunk.

I have some doubts at this point, my trunk lid and reg. plate rattles when i turn up the volume. Currently the sub is facing to the back of the car, is this a good setup? Also two holes are drilled in the parcel tray to bring the sound waves in.

Also Sam I need your help in setting the crossovers as i am very much confused on it.

I understood the working of the HPF - the 32-320Hz filter will provide less bass when i turn it to the 320Hz side.

When the setting is to the LPF side - What all frequencies will it cut? @ what all positions.

Also I couldnot feel much change in the bass as I change the Bassboost. Can you explain how is this bassboost working?

Congratulations on your setup. The CS60.4 has turned out to be a runaway surprise success, I am surprised you managed to get a piece at all. I guess it's the new amps ability to power a subwoofer with ease. Navin will be happy with your choice of components too.

Facing the sub to the back of the car is not unacceptable, but if it is a prefab box, experiment with the positioning inside the boot, you might be surprised. Trunk lids and number plate rattles are quite common. Take the number plate off and glue a sheet of heatlon to the back of the plate and mount it back.

Though your explanation of the HPF is simple, it is true. High Pass filter, will allow all frequencies ABOVE the chosen figure. So when you move to 320, all bass below 320 is cut, hence you say the bass reduces.
From experience i can tell you that the HPF for the front infinity components should be set at about 80Hz.
Your problem is that your are running the speakers in parallel on one stereo channel. (incidentally, 4 speakers on the front channel and a sub bridged on the rear is a fairly heavy load on a little amp like the 60.4, I would love to know if it's still doing fine)
So the same cut off frequency will go to the lightning audio ovals as well, that can actually handle lower frequencies. So a decent compromise is about 60Hz HPF.

For the sub you can experiment with the LPF. Start at about 150 and work back to about 80Hz. Remember the lower the frequency setting, the lesser boom and hum you will get. it's a matter of personal choice. If you want to do it blindly, I think a reasonable setting is a a 60Hz HPF (speakers) and 80Hz LPF(sub)
Aur isske saath hamkare aaj ke samachar samapt huve. Jai hind.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 30th December 2005 at 12:07.
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Old 31st December 2005, 22:17   #43
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i am never happy with anything unless it is DIY. even speakers like the 5010cs and alpine SPR17 or Focal or Vifa benefit from a crossover that is suited to the amp, vehicle, listener, etc..

In my view the choices one should have for amplification should be between Class A Solid State or Triode SE. Ideally a 20W Class A SS amp for the midbass and a 4W Triode SE amp for the tweeter would be fantastic. Sam when are you installing a system along these lines.

Just had a listen to a Lowther horn driven by a 8W KT88 SE. Magic.
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Old 2nd January 2006, 10:41   #44
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Hi Sam,

Thanks a lot for ur tips. I tried repositioning the sub inside the boot, but didnt help to the trunk lid rattle, is there any other way to remove it;Like a Sound dampening material or something like that, and how much its gonna cost? I got rid of the number plate rattle by fixing some soft sponge to its back

Also I am hearing a hiss from the speakers when the HU and amp is on and its not playing any music, like between tracks. This was not present when I was not using the amp. My HU is Pioneer 5750. Any setting is wrong here?

The three blue LEDs in the amp dims with each beat when i turn the amp up. I tried it with the engine running but its still the same, is this because of lack of current in the battery or the amp struggling to drive the sub?

Also the Sub I got is RF Punch Stage 1 which is 150WRMS/300W Peak. My question is whether its ok to feed the Sub with 160W bridged power(current setup). How differ it will sound when i get a mono Class-D mamp(say 200WRMS) to power it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Congratulations on your setup. The CS60.4 has turned out to be a runaway surprise success, I am surprised you managed to get a piece at all. I guess it's the new amps ability to power a subwoofer with ease. Navin will be happy with your choice of components too.

Facing the sub to the back of the car is not unacceptable, but if it is a prefab box, experiment with the positioning inside the boot, you might be surprised. Trunk lids and number plate rattles are quite common. Take the number plate off and glue a sheet of heatlon to the back of the plate and mount it back.

Though your explanation of the HPF is simple, it is true. High Pass filter, will allow all frequencies ABOVE the chosen figure. So when you move to 320, all bass below 320 is cut, hence you say the bass reduces.
From experience i can tell you that the HPF for the front infinity components should be set at about 80Hz.
Your problem is that your are running the speakers in parallel on one stereo channel. (incidentally, 4 speakers on the front channel and a sub bridged on the rear is a fairly heavy load on a little amp like the 60.4, I would love to know if it's still doing fine)
So the same cut off frequency will go to the lightning audio ovals as well, that can actually handle lower frequencies. So a decent compromise is about 60Hz HPF.

For the sub you can experiment with the LPF. Start at about 150 and work back to about 80Hz. Remember the lower the frequency setting, the lesser boom and hum you will get. it's a matter of personal choice. If you want to do it blindly, I think a reasonable setting is a a 60Hz HPF (speakers) and 80Hz LPF(sub)
Aur isske saath hamkare aaj ke samachar samapt huve. Jai hind.
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Old 2nd January 2006, 15:47   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri
Hi Sam,

Thanks a lot for ur tips. I tried repositioning the sub inside the boot, but didnt help to the trunk lid rattle, is there any other way to remove it;Like a Sound dampening material or something like that, and how much its gonna cost? I got rid of the number plate rattle by fixing some soft sponge to its back

Also I am hearing a hiss from the speakers when the HU and amp is on and its not playing any music, like between tracks. This was not present when I was not using the amp. My HU is Pioneer 5750. Any setting is wrong here?

The three blue LEDs in the amp dims with each beat when i turn the amp up. I tried it with the engine running but its still the same, is this because of lack of current in the battery or the amp struggling to drive the sub?

Also the Sub I got is RF Punch Stage 1 which is 150WRMS/300W Peak. My question is whether its ok to feed the Sub with 160W bridged power(current setup). How differ it will sound when i get a mono Class-D mamp(say 200WRMS) to power it?

Well like i told you earlier, soft sponge/heatlon will do the trick.
You are the second person with a similar complaint about the hiss from the pioneer 5750. Please clarify the following - do you get this "hiss" with the car engine turned OFF? Do you get this hiss at all volumes and does the HISS increase or decrease with the volume control?

The amp is definitely overloaded like i told you in my earlier post as you have connected 4 speakers to the front channel and the sub to the other in bridged mode. Putting a capacitor etc MAY help, but if it sounds good, i say leave it.
This problem will definitely be solved when you put a second amp for the subwoofer (any class). I suggest the CS300.1 to complement your CS60.4. It's less than 10k.
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