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Old 18th September 2010, 12:58   #61
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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Well in that case how would we explain this LBMbhai

Morel shows sensitivity of 88db @ 2.83V/1m
If we calculate the efficiency in Mh-audio software with given factors like Fs:20, Qes: .46, Vas: 105L, the result is 84.4db as efficieny. The published sensitivity of Morel Ultimo 12" 2ohms is 88db at 2.83V/1m.
This might help a bit in understanding.

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
In what different way is Hertz measuring? Did you understand exactly how different? Let me try and explain.

Normal home audio standards has it to supply 2.83 volts to any driver/ system for sensitivity measurements. A lot of guys do exactly that for car drivers. Which is wrong. While home drivers/ systems 'usually' (not always) have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms, this means that 2.83V across it produces 1 watt of power. The same voltage applied to a 4 ohm speaker will produce 2 watts of power. There are some brands that will still refer to this as 1 watt of power as per standards (not in real terms), however absurd that may be.

In reality, this should mean that, if measured with 2.83V, a 4 ohm driver should show 3dB more than what the actual sensitivity is, on account of doubling the power. This seems the case with Image Dynamics (atleast 2 of the subs that you mention here)
Besides that, the sensitivity numbers have been rounded off to the nearest whole numbers.

Now you know what Dan was talking about.
Also the morel is say what you are saying then what is the difference !!!

Morel Loudspeakers - Mobile Audio - Subwoofers - Ultimo Subwoofer - Ultimo Subwoofer
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Old 18th September 2010, 13:45   #62
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Well I did mention Efficiency is power out/power in. Sensitivity is power out/voltage in. So for instance if the Morel mentions the sensitivity at 2.84v/1m to be at 88db which means at 1w/1m it will be 3db less which is about 85db close to that concluded by Mh-audio. however in case of kappa its not same. It mentions 91db at 2.83v/1m which means theoretically it should be 88db at 1w/1m. Where as the efficiency that the software mentioned said to 85db.
Now the kappa manual says - The SSI 2-ohm setting increases the subwoofer's output over the 4-ohm setting by up to 3dB, depending on the amplifier, Performance is identical in all other respects, If the connected amplifier is rated for 2-ohm operation and its 2-ohm power ratings are within the subwoofer's power-handling specifications, setting the SSI switch in the 2-ohm position will achieve maximum output,
Going by the above statement would mean that at 2ohms the efficiency could be at 88db against the 85db that was concluded.
Also like to add that if you look at the Le in the manual at 2ohm, it remains the same as it in 4ohms where as with other subs Le will double.

Navin had the same doubt here is that post which explains that it's the coil design here that keeps it's Le constant and which could be the reason for adding of 3db more output when played at 2ohms. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1831988-post26.html
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Old 18th September 2010, 14:52   #63
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Ive heard of Diamond Audio but are these subs/brands available here in Mumbai?
I know DD used to be available here, but not sure of the present status. I don't think Diamond is available locally. But these subs and Morel and JL are in a different league both in terms of performance and price compared to the Kappa. If your budget for the sub is 15K, buy the Kappa blindly. It will be able to handle 750W RMS as long as you are careful with the gains.
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Old 18th September 2010, 15:01   #64
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Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
I know DD used to be available here, but not sure of the present status. I don't think Diamond is available locally. But these subs and Morel and JL are in a different league both in terms of performance and price compared to the Kappa. If your budget for the sub is 15K, buy the Kappa blindly. It will be able to handle 750W RMS as long as you are careful with the gains.
Diamond subs are available and is being distributed by As-caraudio. However their prices are exorbitant. AS Caraudio
With that kinda price I would choose to buy 2 of Morel ultimo.
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Old 18th September 2010, 16:44   #65
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Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
I know DD used to be available here, but not sure of the present status. I don't think Diamond is available locally. But these subs and Morel and JL are in a different league both in terms of performance and price compared to the Kappa. If your budget for the sub is 15K, buy the Kappa blindly. It will be able to handle 750W RMS as long as you are careful with the gains.
If you say that the Kappa will be able to handle the 750W RMS power then I rather buy the Kappa which is apparently 10k on checking today and not 15k which makes it probably the most VFM SQ sub available I guess.

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Diamond subs are available and is being distributed by As-caraudio. However their prices are exorbitant. AS Caraudio
With that kinda price I would choose to buy 2 of Morel ultimo.
As mentioned before, if the Kappa is a sub that is in par with JL, Morel and the like in terms of efficiency and plus will be able to handle the 750W RMS provided fitted in the right enclosure (as mentioned in a previous post by you), I believe the Kappa is the sub to go for without hesitation at the moment.
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Old 18th September 2010, 18:46   #66
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Originally Posted by Epic View Post
If you say that the Kappa will be able to handle the 750W RMS power then I rather buy the Kappa which is apparently 10k on checking today and not 15k which makes it probably the most VFM SQ sub available I guess.



As mentioned before, if the Kappa is a sub that is in par with JL, Morel and the like in terms of efficiency and plus will be able to handle the 750W RMS provided fitted in the right enclosure (as mentioned in a previous post by you), I believe the Kappa is the sub to go for without hesitation at the moment.
For 10K you wouldn't get any better sub out there in the market for SQ purpose. It's a low distortion sub that can work beautifully if install and tuned right. You can get a .8 cu.ft enclosure fill it with 500 grams of polyfill to work with your current Amp and when you upgrade your amp to the Audison in future you get take off all the polyfill to make use with it's available power without affecting the sound quality on it.
Or in future you could sell this off add some more money and get W6, Ultimo, hex pro or others.

Last edited by Invinsible : 18th September 2010 at 18:49.
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Old 18th September 2010, 21:03   #67
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Is Kappa a SVC sub ?

I haven't heard one, but seems like under 10K, thats the best option for you.

GZ, RF Primes are not exactly SQ
ID CTX and ID are'nt really loud


IMHO, Audison amps are very good. BUt you ll find their fullest use if you are using thier fully variable onboard crossovers. becasue i think thats why Audison Amps cost a bomb (apart from the make), AS such if you have a cost per watt criteria i am sure audison would find itself well below the average.

In fact you could hav invested in the Amp first and settled with a slightly lesser priced HU. Because those Amps from audison, they really dont require a highend HU for going Active.

Any idea on the Price of the Lrx 5.1 ?
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Old 19th September 2010, 07:58   #68
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Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Is Kappa a SVC sub ?
120.9 is a triple voice coil sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
In fact you could hav invested in the Amp first and settled with a slightly lesser priced HU. Because those Amps from audison, they really dont require a highend HU for going Active.
You mean one can build an active setup with LRX5.1 even without a HU that doesn't support going active?

Last edited by Sankar : 19th September 2010 at 08:01.
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Old 20th September 2010, 11:00   #69
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To be honest, I have been taking feedback from various sources which always seem to be contradicting each other. Actually, every post on this thread seems to be contradicting the previous posts and this has really confused me even more than I was in the beginning. Now, I was ready for this as this seems to always be the case in the TBHP ICE section, so I'm not complaining.

I have been told that the Audison LRx 5.1k will be an overkill for my set up, especially for the rear Morel Maximo Coaxials and hence retain my current JBL 75.4. Instead I should upgrade the monoblock and the sub. However, I have not been told to what I should upgrade the same, not yet at least. There was a mention of the Focal Solid 4 & Focal Solid 1 to replace my JBL amps but apparently the difference will be minimal and not worth the cost.

So I have decided to just retain my current amps and only go for the Infinity Kappa 120.9 at the moment. As mentioned in a previous post of mine, my reason for this is -

My current mono set up is the JBL 301.1 which gives 204W RMS & 300W RMS at 4 Ohms & 2 Ohms respectively. My current Infinity Reference 1200T sub is a SVC sub and is capable of handling 300W RMS at 4 Ohms and 1200W peak. Now, this sub is anyway not getting its full power from the mono. The Kappa can handle 350W RMS at 2 Ohms & 4 Ohms, so I will instead run the Kappa at 2 Ohms and at least extract the full 300W from the mono.

This is probably not an upgrade but I'm sure will definitely make a good difference to the sub section. For 10k, I think it would be worth it. What do you guys think?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
I haven't heard one, but seems like under 10K, thats the best option for you.
I haven't heard one either, just going by the reviews and suggestions which seem to be positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
IMHO, Audison amps are very good. BUt you ll find their fullest use if you are using thier fully variable onboard crossovers. becasue i think thats why Audison Amps cost a bomb (apart from the make), AS such if you have a cost per watt criteria i am sure audison would find itself well below the average.
I have no idea what this means.

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Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
In fact you could hav invested in the Amp first and settled with a slightly lesser priced HU. Because those Amps from audison, they really dont require a highend HU for going Active.
Not sure about this and don't plan on going active. I just required a basic set up that sounds good and is towards SQ. The Morels made a good difference in sound and the P80RSII further improved it by a huge margin. I am not sure that a change in amp instead of the head unit would have made such a vast difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Any idea on the Price of the Lrx 5.1 ?
The last I was quoted a month back was around 70k from Kumar's Auto.

Last edited by Epic : 20th September 2010 at 11:04.
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Old 28th December 2010, 11:49   #70
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Default Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

Hi guys,

I am back and ready to look at an upgrade for my amps and sub. I am not in a hurry and looking at the upgrade in the next 2-3 months as I want to make sure that the equipment I choose are the right ones. Again, I am looking towards SQ. Music I listen to are Hip-Hop, Rap, House.

Current Setup:

Head unit: Pioneer P80RSII
Front Stage: Morel Tempo 6
Rear Stage: Morel Maximo Coaxial
Sub: Infinity Ref 1200T in a sealed box
4 ch Amp: JBL 75.4
Mono Amp: JBL 301.1
Damping: Noise Kill on all 4 doors and boot

I have no intention of changing the speakers and the head unit!!

Now, I am looking to only upgrade the amplifiers and the sub woofer. I am sort of sold on the Infinity Kappa 120.9 sub woofer for its reviews and cost as mentioned in my earlier posts.

I have been recommended many amplifiers, many which are high end and many which are towards SQ but no so high end. I have been told and personally feel so too; that high end amps are not required for my current setup as my speakers (which are above average but not high end) will not do justice to the amps. So either to stick to my current amps or upgrade to a not-so-high end amp. The choices are:

High End Amps:

Audison LRx
Steg
Tru Tech
Genesis

The Not-So High End Amps:

Focal Solid
Alpine PDX
Kenwood KAC
Infinity Kappa


I do not have a huge budget, around 50k for a 4 channel and a mono so would require your suggestions on the above.
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Old 28th December 2010, 12:04   #71
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Default Re: Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

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Originally Posted by Epic View Post

[/b][/u]Audison LRx
Steg
Tru Tech
Genesis

The Not-So High End Amps:

Focal Solid
Alpine PDX
Kenwood KAC
Infinity Kappa


I do not have a huge budget, around 50k for a 4 channel and a mono so would require your suggestions on the above.
50K budget is good for the amps. Anyone of the above will be a good upgrade over the JBL amps. Morels have a good laid back sound especially the tweeter. A good match to the Morels could be the Audison Lrx & the Tru Tech. However since you are using the Morel Tempo comps you could also opt for Alpine v power amp instead of the PDX and for that matter Focal Solid will be good.

As for the sub Infinity Kappa is a good choice for subs below 15k.
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Old 28th December 2010, 12:34   #72
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Default Re: Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
50K budget is good for the amps. Anyone of the above will be a good upgrade over the JBL amps. Morels have a good laid back sound especially the tweeter. A good match to the Morels could be the Audison Lrx & the Tru Tech. However since you are using the Morel Tempo comps you could also opt for Alpine v power amp instead of the PDX and for that matter Focal Solid will be good.

As for the sub Infinity Kappa is a good choice for subs below 15k.
I believe the Focal Solid amps are the most value for money amps especially since they are more SQ oriented? I believe they cost inside the 20k bracket?

I don't think an Audison/Tru Tech will be available in my budget unless I manage to source them from abroad as I am looking for a 4 channel and a monoblock. How much will an Alpine V Power cost me? Is the V Power better than the PDX?? Ive just gone through the Alpine 2010 catalog and they have the PDX5 which is a 5-channel amp.

Last edited by Epic : 28th December 2010 at 12:45.
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Old 28th December 2010, 13:12   #73
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Default Re: Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
Hi guys,

I am back and ready to look at an upgrade for my amps and sub. I am not in a hurry and looking at the upgrade in the next 2-3 months as I want to make sure that the equipment I choose are the right ones. Again, I am looking towards SQ. Music I listen to are Hip-Hop, Rap, House.

Current Setup:

Head unit: Pioneer P80RSII
Front Stage: Morel Tempo 6
Rear Stage: Morel Maximo Coaxial
Sub: Infinity Ref 1200T in a sealed box
4 ch Amp: JBL 75.4
Mono Amp: JBL 301.1
Damping: Noise Kill on all 4 doors and boot

I have no intention of changing the speakers and the head unit!!

Now, I am looking to only upgrade the amplifiers and the sub woofer. I am sort of sold on the Infinity Kappa 120.9 sub woofer for its reviews and cost as mentioned in my earlier posts.

I have been recommended many amplifiers, many which are high end and many which are towards SQ but no so high end. I have been told and personally feel so too; that high end amps are not required for my current setup as my speakers (which are above average but not high end) will not do justice to the amps. So either to stick to my current amps or upgrade to a not-so-high end amp. The choices are:

The Not-So High End Amps:

Focal Solid
Alpine PDX
Kenwood KAC
Infinity Kappa


I do not have a huge budget, around 50k for a 4 channel and a mono so would require your suggestions on the above.
I would first look at a good monoblock to drive that Kappa 120.9 sub. For this I would look at the Kenwood 8104, JBL 14001, or PDX M6 (if space is an issue). I would assume the 8014 would be the most affordable of these.

For the front and rear channels the 75.4 you have is a good amp. If you want to move a step or two up you should look at the Infinity Kappa 4, JL XD400/4, DLS RA40, Audison SR4, etc..
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Old 28th December 2010, 15:24   #74
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Default Re: Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
50K budget is good for the amps. Anyone of the above will be a good upgrade over the JBL amps. Morels have a good laid back sound especially the tweeter. A good match to the Morels could be the Audison Lrx & the Tru Tech. However since you are using the Morel Tempo comps you could also opt for Alpine v power amp instead of the PDX and for that matter Focal Solid will be good.

As for the sub Infinity Kappa is a good choice for subs below 15k.
From what i heared (Morel Tempo, Maximo, HO, Elate) their tweeters are not exactly laid back, like say a DLS. The Tempo and Maximo especially are quite lively. I wont not called them sharp or harsh (i had this Hertz Deici and Energy series which are quite sharp).

Alpine V power is a good choice. The new Gen Alpine PDX F4/F6 is also getting some rave reviews. Solid 4 is good, i have heard it. Slightly less on Power levels and SNR though
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Old 28th December 2010, 15:58   #75
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Default Re: Amp & Sub Upgrade - But Which Ones??

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Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
From what i heared (Morel Tempo, Maximo, HO, Elate) their tweeters are not exactly laid back, like say a DLS. The Tempo and Maximo especially are quite lively. I wont not called them sharp or harsh (i had this Hertz Deici and Energy series which are quite sharp).
Morel's signature is warm & sound where warm is the midbass/midrange and sweet goes to the tweeter. Morel tweets are not sharp or forward like most. I would term them a bit laid back compared to Seas, Scans & Dyns.
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