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Old 22nd August 2010, 07:14   #1
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Default Adding A Sub woofer on the Pioneer DEH-P5950 without amp?

Hi experts,

I was just browsing the manual of my Pioneer DEH-P5950 and it mentioned that the HU supports subwoofer settings.

Does this mean I can get a subwoofer attached to the HU directly without having to set up an amp ?

I could see settings to direct low freq notes to the sub and run a hp filter on my other 4 spkrs.

I have six inch JBL front coaxials and Pioneer 6x9 Ovals in the rear. To be honest, this setup has worked satisfactorily for me but I have just moved to some lounge and new age music genres that are really high on bass and it would feel great to upgrade slightly to get richer bass notes.

Would you recommend this setup or would u strongly recommend an amp?

Please let me know. An image of my HU is attached. Regards

PS: The image is off the web...not the real HU pic..
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Adding A Sub woofer on the Pioneer DEH-P5950 without amp?-dehp5950ib_es061110l.jpg  

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Old 22nd August 2010, 14:34   #2
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HU pre-out for sub is basically for tweaking the sub while running on an amp. It gives you flexibilty. However, if you try to attach a sub directly, you'll fry the HU.
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Old 22nd August 2010, 19:08   #3
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detailed discussion here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ier-works.html
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Old 22nd August 2010, 19:31   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
Hi experts,

I was just browsing the manual of my Pioneer DEH-P5950 and it mentioned that the HU supports subwoofer settings.

Does this mean I can get a subwoofer attached to the HU directly without having to set up an amp ?

I could see settings to direct low freq notes to the sub and run a hp filter on my other 4 spkrs.

I have six inch JBL front coaxials and Pioneer 6x9 Ovals in the rear. To be honest, this setup has worked satisfactorily for me but I have just moved to some lounge and new age music genres that are really high on bass and it would feel great to upgrade slightly to get richer bass notes.

Would you recommend this setup or would u strongly recommend an amp?

Please let me know. An image of my HU is attached. Regards

PS: The image is off the web...not the real HU pic..
Hi Vikram,

As mentioned by Panky, you cannot connect a sub directly to any HU without an external amplifier. The subwoofer settings that you see on the HU is for a subwoofer that is connected through an external amplifier only. However, have three options :

Option 1

Since you seem to be happy with your current setup, you can probably damp the front doors and fit the 6X9s in a sealed box. This will considerably increase bass to a certain extent.
This would be the cheapest option and difference will be marginal.

Option 2

Change your front coaxials to component speakers, add a 4ch amp and a sub. Drive the front components through 2 channels on the amp and bridge the other two channels on the amp for the sub. You can retain the 6X9s and drive them directly through the HU.
This is a budget option and difference will be very noticeable.

Option 3

Change your front coaxials to component speakers, add a 4ch amp, add a monoblock and a sub. Drive the front components & 6X9s (6" coaxials would be a better option for the rear and installed in the rear doors) through the 4 channel amp. Drive the sub through the monoblock.
This is a reasonably expensive option but will give you the best results. Actually, this is the most common setup in most vehicles.

Which car is this for?
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Old 23rd August 2010, 00:21   #5
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@greenhorn - thats scary stuff on the post man.. no way am i gonna risk frying my HU..so will go for a sub

@ epic - Option 2 sounds great. Let me check out the mkt for prices and models and will write back. Option 3 does seem fantastic but i think will be too much gadgetry inside the car..so will stick to option 2. This is for the swift ..
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Old 23rd August 2010, 13:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
@greenhorn - thats scary stuff on the post man.. no way am i gonna risk frying my HU..so will go for a sub

@ epic - Option 2 sounds great. Let me check out the mkt for prices and models and will write back. Option 3 does seem fantastic but i think will be too much gadgetry inside the car..so will stick to option 2. This is for the swift ..
Hi Vikram,

Yes Option 2 should suffice but please remember that this is a setup which will give u more front stage and recommended if you drive yourself only. This would also require the front doors and boot to be well damped for best effect.

Two amps in a car are not too much gadgetry. I am running two amps, 4 speakers and a sub in my Swift with no issues. You will be shocked with the amount of equipment some of our members are running in their vehicles. But let's not get in to that

Anyways, I strongly recommend you keep a budget and work upon it accordingly or else you will go out of control!
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Old 25th August 2010, 22:22   #7
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agree epic sky is the limit with accessories these days.. however i drive myself so i think 1 amp will be good enuff..when u say dampening...what all does this include...and does that apply to only the front doors?
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Old 3rd September 2010, 13:50   #8
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Quick q, i am still thinking about the sub. I like bass but i dont need to shake the ground and buildings around me. I believe that having an amp would still be a good idea even if i dont want to go for a sub. is my understanding correct? The objective is more refined bass and mids. Also, could anyone recommend 6x9s that have fantastic performance for bass and can help eliminate the need for a sub. I am happy to deploye the money I save on the sub to buy better speakers...pls advise...I am thinking of the Pioneer GM-6400F 4 ch amp for my ice...any thoughts on this model ?
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Old 3rd September 2010, 16:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
agree epic sky is the limit with accessories these days.. however i drive myself so i think 1 amp will be good enuff..when u say dampening...what all does this include...and does that apply to only the front doors?
Damping is a procedure to prevent rattles and vibrations that are produced from your car doors & boot when you play your system at loud volumes. Apart from it sounding ridiculous to those outside the car, it can also spoil the image of a really good sounding system. It will also help improve the way your mids and bass sound. More tighter and not loose.

Damping material, which come in large alluminim based sheets which can be stuck on the inside of your doors and plastic panels of your doors; is available in many brands. Noise Kill and Dynamat Xtreme are the most commonly used. Noise Kill is the cheaper and more economical brand with good value for money. However, Dynamat Xtreme is the best but double the cost of Noise Kill.

It is usually recommended to damp doors in which you have your speakers installed. The boot is damped as the sub is usually placed there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
Quick q, i am still thinking about the sub. I like bass but i dont need to shake the ground and buildings around me. I believe that having an amp would still be a good idea even if i dont want to go for a sub. is my understanding correct? The objective is more refined bass and mids. Also, could anyone recommend 6x9s that have fantastic performance for bass and can help eliminate the need for a sub. I am happy to deploye the money I save on the sub to buy better speakers...pls advise...I am thinking of the Pioneer GM-6400F 4 ch amp for my ice...any thoughts on this model ?
You again have two options here and I suggest you try option 01 before you look at option 02 as investment is minimal.

Option 01

Connect your components and 6X9s to a 4 channel amp. Damp the front door having the components. You can probably install the 6X9s in a box made of MDF. This will definitely improve bass to a great extent. To my knowledge and personal experience, 3-way or 4-way 6X9s may end up sounding too bright and spoil the sound stage. I would hence recommend 2-way 6X9s OR 8" 2-way coaxials at the rear.

Listen to this set up and check if it is appealing to you. If not, go with Option 02.

Option 02

Connect two channels of your 4 channel amp to your components and bridge the other two channels to a 12" sub in a sealed box. The 2-way 6X9 coaxials OR 2-way 8" coaxials can be driven directly through the HU.

When choosing speakers, don't go by brands but listen to them yourself and decide accordingly as to what suits your ears best.

Hope the above helps. Do update us with your decision.
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Old 3rd September 2010, 17:05   #10
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Hi Epic...v v v useful..thx. However, 2 reasons made me go against a sub..I have a 3 year old daughter who is in the car all the time. Hence I will almost never need an earth shking thump. I just need tight, rich and "organised" bass. Second, I need the boot space as the Swift surely leaves much to be desired in that area :-) So will still stick to the 4 spkr setup. Again, may possibly go for a good boot dampening instead of MDF boxes. Can u help explain whether the EL693 is a 3 way coax or 2 way ? Any suggestions on what brands to go for when buying a 6x9 2way?

Here's what my research and a long discussion with another Team BHPian has yielded...

Amp: JBL S644
Rear Coax: Illusion audio EL 693
Front Compos: Illusion audio EL 6.1

Here is what I would love to hear about..

1. reviews and if possible personal experiences on this JBL amp
2. I am a sucker for symmetry. Would prefer that my entire speaker range be bought from a single manufacturer unless there is a major argument against having 2 speaker manufacturers
3. Any thoughts against the illusion speakers kit that someone's already running and feels gives kickass performance..thx
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Old 3rd September 2010, 17:48   #11
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Here's more on my research results.

1. Amp - Hands on all my audiophiles approve
2. Illusion audio - excellent rating but some advise trying the Bull Audio 2 way 6.5 inch compo set
3. Since I am not going for a sub i should consider ground zero 6x9 GZTF 69T

Any thoughts experts ?
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Old 5th September 2010, 15:40   #12
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Hi Vikram,

The experts are probably right with their speaker suggestions as the Illusions tend to be more laid back as compared to others. However, please remember not to judge or choose speakers with brands but listen to them yourself and choose the ones that sound the best to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
Hi Epic...v v v useful..thx. However, 2 reasons made me go against a sub..I have a 3 year old daughter who is in the car all the time. Hence I will almost never need an earth shking thump. I just need tight, rich and "organised" bass. Second, I need the boot space as the Swift surely leaves much to be desired in that area :-) So will still stick to the 4 spkr setup. Again, may possibly go for a good boot dampening instead of MDF boxes.
In that case stick to the 4 speaker set up but just damping the boot will not help the rear 6X9s to produce detailed bass. Every speaker sounds best and more detailed in an air tight enclosure. Just like in the case of components, the front doors act as an enclosure and the damping of doors prevent the metal of the doors from vibrating and improving mid bass of the speakers.

Now in the case of rear 6X9s, I am sure you will be installing them on the rear parcel shelf/tray, so they will be basically hanging in free air so bass will not be as good as if installed in a MDF box. In either case you will not require to damp the boot. Damp only the front doors.
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Old 5th September 2010, 20:58   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
Here's more on my research results.

1. Amp - Hands on all my audiophiles approve
2. Illusion audio - excellent rating but some advise trying the Bull Audio 2 way 6.5 inch compo set
3. Since I am not going for a sub i should consider ground zero 6x9 GZTF 69T

Any thoughts experts ?
If you are auditioning these setups, please try listening to POLK dB 691 Co-Axials for the rear! It sure is a little louder than the others!

Cheers!
-Z
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Old 6th September 2010, 11:12   #14
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thanks zombie, epic and all others.

Finally took the plunge yesterday!

Here's the final install:

Amp: JBL 644
Rear Coax: Illusion Audio GT 693. they were just awesome threw ground zero out of the park
Front Comps: Illusion Audio 6.1 series.

Got it done from the trusted Ramie @ Sound Factor and the setup ROCKS!!!! thx everyone for your thoughts...photos coming up
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Old 6th September 2010, 12:03   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram31 View Post
thanks zombie, epic and all others.

Finally took the plunge yesterday!

Here's the final install:

Amp: JBL 644
Rear Coax: Illusion Audio GT 693. they were just awesome threw ground zero out of the park
Front Comps: Illusion Audio 6.1 series.

Got it done from the trusted Ramie @ Sound Factor and the setup ROCKS!!!! thx everyone for your thoughts...photos coming up
Hey Vikram,

Congratulations on the install. Glad to be of help. Are the 6X9s installed in a sealed box or on the rear parcel tray? Are you happy with the bass? Yes, please do post the pics.
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