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Old 24th August 2010, 23:08   #1
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Default Advice on ICE - New Palio MJD [DELHI]

I went down to Ahuja Car Decor in Lajpat Nagar in Delhi and got the following quotation.

Head Unit: CDX-GT696UI : Xplod CD Receiver : In-Car Entertainment : Sony India [CDX-GT696UI XPLOD]

Speakers [Rear]: JBL 400 Watt. I can't remember the model number for crying out loud.

Speakers [Front]: JBL. Again, I can't remember the model number, but the dealer said "Simple JBL front speakers." I'm guessing it's the size that'll fit into the Palio front speaker provisions. There's three sizes of front speakers shown here: India JBL
It's one of those.

Amplifier: JBL 800W JBL GT5-S644

Wiring Kit for Amp

The total came to 18,500/- which is including 1,100/- discount (Special discount for t-bhp members he said!)

The guy was very helpful. I just wish I had more time to note down the model numbers. The prices quoted for each component were below what I found online for the same.

Now comes my requirements.
  • I listen to a lot of Metal and Rap. I really enjoy my music and want excellent sound quality throughout the sound ranges.
  • Bass needn't be earth shaking, it needs to be nice and powerful within the car. I don't want to have to turn the bass down when a song with particularly booming bass comes on.
  • I want really loud music sometimes, and not tear my speakers in the process. The best sound system I've had in a car is in my i10 Asta which came with the car. It's decent, but I can't turn it up as much as I'd like to. The bass ranges from -10 to +10 in it's settings, and I always have to have it on 0 to around -3. I can't go into the positives.
Basically, if I spend 19k on a music system, I want to be able to enjoy some really loud powerful music now and then, but yet have clarity!

Thanks guys, I plan to decide by Saturday!
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Old 24th August 2010, 23:55   #2
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I just got my ALTO iced and it did cost me 27K
Here is what I got (I listen to Rock / Hip-hop / Trance)

H.U - Kenwood KDC-7046BT
Front - Auditor RIP-165S Components
Rear - Auditor RIP-690C Co-axials
Amp - Auditor RIP-4280

Damage - 27K

I'm completely satisfied with the bass it produces (without sub)

I also recommend Infinity / Polk / Rockford Fosgate speakers and Pioneer H.U.

But please audition before you buy, it will help you decide!

P.S - Also check the Palio ICE threads.

Cheers!
-Z
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Old 25th August 2010, 13:28   #3
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Seem to be quite reasonable prices, except:
* Avoid the Sony - he gets a good margin, but you get bad music. Not really bad, just that Pio, Kenwood, JVC, Blau etc. are miles ahead in value / quality / robustness
* "Simple JBL front speakers" : This is where he is pulling a fast one. This means that he is putting simple coaxials in front (I am sure he will try to impress you with the 'bass' from the rear speakers, and remain silent on lack of clarity or excessive brightness of the front coaxes). You don't need an amp if he puts coaxes in front. Ask for components (separate mid-bass and tweeter units, with a cross-over) in front

Don't worry about the xxxWatts figures - the rear ovals are good, though there can be better ones. Not to be expected to replace a sub-woofer.
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Old 25th August 2010, 14:22   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie69 View Post
I just got my ALTO iced and it did cost me 27K
Here is what I got (I listen to Rock / Hip-hop / Trance)

H.U - Kenwood KDC-7046BT
Front - Auditor RIP-165S Components
Rear - Auditor RIP-690C Co-axials
Amp - Auditor RIP-4280

Damage - 27K

I'm completely satisfied with the bass it produces (without sub)

I also recommend Infinity / Polk / Rockford Fosgate speakers and Pioneer H.U.

But please audition before you buy, it will help you decide!

P.S - Also check the Palio ICE threads.

Cheers!
-Z
Congrats on your setup, that sounds pretty brutal. And thanks for the tips too, I will follow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Seem to be quite reasonable prices, except:
* Avoid the Sony - he gets a good margin, but you get bad music. Not really bad, just that Pio, Kenwood, JVC, Blau etc. are miles ahead in value / quality / robustness
* "Simple JBL front speakers" : This is where he is pulling a fast one. This means that he is putting simple coaxials in front (I am sure he will try to impress you with the 'bass' from the rear speakers, and remain silent on lack of clarity or excessive brightness of the front coaxes). You don't need an amp if he puts coaxes in front. Ask for components (separate mid-bass and tweeter units, with a cross-over) in front

Don't worry about the xxxWatts figures - the rear ovals are good, though there can be better ones. Not to be expected to replace a sub-woofer.
Thanks for your input, and to be quite frank, I didn't understand much of the 2nd paragraph. About co-axials, components and cross-overs. Are co-axials different from normal front speakers? If I do get these separate components, where do they physically go? What would be in the front speaker sockets? And if I leave out the 800W amp, how do 120W front co-axials do the job instead? Wouldn't I be spending much more if I went for these other components? Can I also ask what an amp actually does? Do I need it for distinctly more powerful sound throughout the ranges?

Bare with a newbie please and I'll google up stuff I didn't understand.

Last edited by ByDesign : 25th August 2010 at 14:24.
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Old 25th August 2010, 14:28   #5
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HI. I'd recommend you go in for Alpine or Pioneer head units instead of sony. Also, do invest in good component speakers in the front. Its worth every penny you pay for. The Palio's original provisions in the front door will easily take up a 6.5" component speaker. You can go for Polk / Kicker / Auditor components. They will cost somewhere between 6000 to 6500. But trust me, you will enjoy the performance.
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Old 25th August 2010, 17:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
Congrats on your setup, that sounds pretty brutal. And thanks for the tips too, I will follow up.



Thanks for your input, and to be quite frank, I didn't understand much of the 2nd paragraph. About co-axials, components and cross-overs. Are co-axials different from normal front speakers? If I do get these separate components, where do they physically go? What would be in the front speaker sockets? And if I leave out the 800W amp, how do 120W front co-axials do the job instead? Wouldn't I be spending much more if I went for these other components? Can I also ask what an amp actually does? Do I need it for distinctly more powerful sound throughout the ranges?

Bare with a newbie please and I'll google up stuff I didn't understand.
you don't have to Google it! everything is available here
Check this thread and it will make your life easier in understanding the ICE terminologies.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...rminology.html

Happy reading!

Cheers!
-Z
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Old 27th August 2010, 12:41   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie69 View Post
you don't have to Google it! everything is available here
Check this thread and it will make your life easier in understanding the ICE terminologies.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...rminology.html

Happy reading!

Cheers!
-Z
Thanks for that. Lets say I go in for the Pio HU, and the JBL speakers I've mentioned in my first post, do I need to get the amp? If I don't get any compos, no mediums no tweeters and no bass tube, do I still need the amp to get more juice out of the speakers? If I get compos, the ones mentioned above, I'm sure I'll be going above 20k and I don't want to do that. The quotation in my first post was as much as I can spend right now on a music system.

Inputs?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 27th August 2010, 15:08   #8
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No you don't. Run them off the HU amp for some time. An external amp will make the system better, but that can come later.

I would still advise you to look around at what else you can get in your budget. I am sure you will be able to get the HU, components in front and a pair of 6x9 at the back (for the bass) within 18K. An amp and sub can wait till you have sufficient Vit M. Visit some more reputed ICE shops / installers.
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Old 27th August 2010, 17:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
Thanks for that. Lets say I go in for the Pio HU, and the JBL speakers I've mentioned in my first post, do I need to get the amp? If I don't get any compos, no mediums no tweeters and no bass tube, do I still need the amp to get more juice out of the speakers? If I get compos, the ones mentioned above, I'm sure I'll be going above 20k and I don't want to do that. The quotation in my first post was as much as I can spend right now on a music system.

Inputs?

Thanks in advance.
Here is what you can get with 20K

H.U -> Pioneer / Kenwood ~ 6.5K
Front Comp -> Auditor 6.5 ~ 4.5K
Rear Co-axial -> Auditor 6x9 ~ 3K
Amp -> JBL 4 Ch. ~ 6K
2K more for wiring and installation

A little bit over your budget but you'll love this setup when you hear it!

Cheers!
-Z
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Old 27th August 2010, 22:32   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie69 View Post
Here is what you can get with 20K

H.U -> Pioneer / Kenwood ~ 6.5K
Front Comp -> Auditor 6.5 ~ 4.5K
Rear Co-axial -> Auditor 6x9 ~ 3K
Amp -> JBL 4 Ch. ~ 6K
2K more for wiring and installation

A little bit over your budget but you'll love this setup when you hear it!

Cheers!
-Z

I'm heading down to the market tomorrow. Will check if he has auditor, otherwise will go in for the JBL setup. I'll also take a look at some demos. From what DerAlte said, I'll go in for JBL compos in the front (6.5's) instead of the coaxes. Will keep you posted. Should have the system up and running by tomorrow night!
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Old 28th August 2010, 12:18   #11
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Guys, quick question, I need to leave in about an hour to do this.

I spoke to the guy about having components in front, JBL components were quoted at 4800 Rs. I told him I'd cut down to a 2 channel amp only for the rear ovals since compos don't need amplifying. He said I won't get the maximum juice untill I amp the front compos as well, hence go in for the 4 channel amp? Is this right? Thanks!
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Old 28th August 2010, 14:36   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
Guys, quick question, I need to leave in about an hour to do this.

I spoke to the guy about having components in front, JBL components were quoted at 4800 Rs. I told him I'd cut down to a 2 channel amp only for the rear ovals since compos don't need amplifying. He said I won't get the maximum juice untill I amp the front compos as well, hence go in for the 4 channel amp? Is this right? Thanks!
Amplifying the front components is advised rather than the rear coaxials. Co-axials can run from the H.U directly. Music sounds much more refined when you amp the components. you can use 2 ch. Amp, but amplify the front comps!

Cheers!
-Z
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Old 28th August 2010, 23:02   #13
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Ok, everything's been done.

I've installed the following

JBL GTO948 Rear Ovals 400W on the tray
JBL GTO 608C front components
JBL GT5 S644 800W 4channel Amp
Pioneer DEH 5250SD Head Unit

The amp's been connected to the rear ovals as well as the front compos. Now let's get down to business.

I paid about 22.5k for this setup which I thought was pretty decent.

1. When I turn the engine on, and then the music system, I can hear a high pitched noise coming from the speakers. For instance, when no music is playing, like the song is paused, I can hear this noise. The guy who was setting up the system showed me this sound and said this is pretty low in my case and that it happens with most setups. The weird thing is, the pitch of the sound increases as I rev the engine (even when I'm driving). Again, the volume of the high pitched squeal remains constant, but the pitch goes up as I rev, and drops as the RPM drops of the engine. Anyone tell me why this is happening?

2. The sound is absolutely brutal. Music sounds rich and fulfilling, including my metal and hiphop. Lucky Ali and Michael Jackson never sounded this good before either.

3. The head unit does not sit properly in the slot! The guy had a hard time stuffing it in there and it simply doesn't look right. I've also looked at Architect's Palio MJD, and his head unit looks the same. It doesn't seem like a good fit. Any fixes for this?

If anyone could help, especially regarding the noise from the tweeters.

EDIT: After googling the problem this is what I got. And this matches what I'm saying EXACTLY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.termpro.com
Alternator Whine

To me, alternator whine is the most annoying form of noise. For those of you who are lucky enough never to have been exposed to alternator whine, it sounds like a miniature siren that rises in pitch with the speed of the engine. Alternator whine is almost always caused by a ground loop. The following steps will aid you in locating and correcting a ground loop problem.
  1. Verify that all levels are set properly. (Click here for related article.)
  2. With the system turned off, unplug the RCA inputs to the amplifier.
  3. Start the vehicle and turn the system on. If the noise is gone go to step 8. If the noise is still present, it is coming from the amp or the speaker wiring. Continue.
  4. Turn the system off and disconnect the speaker harness.
  5. Start the engine and verify that no noise is present. In a few rare instances, I have actually heard speakers reproduce noise without being connected to an amplifier. This noise was being induced by power cables that were very close to the speaker wire. If you do have this type of noise, reroute the appropriate speaker lead and go to step 3.
  6. With the speaker harness still disconnected, check to make sure there are no shorts between the speaker leads and the chassis of the vehicle. A shorted negative speaker lead will create a ground loop by establishing a second audio ground reference point. If you do have a short, trace the wire out and repair it then go to step 3.
  7. With the RCA inputs and speaker harness still disconnected from the amplifier, use your VOM to measure from the shield of the RCA jacks on the amp to the chassis of the vehicle. This reading should not be a direct short (100 ohms or more is acceptable.) If this reading does indicate a direct short, you might have a defective amp and should contact the manufacturer for verification. (Note that there are a few "inexpensive" amps or boosters on the market that have their audio ground and electrical ground commoned internally. For units of this type, the information in this article will be of very little value.)
  8. If you've made it here, you know that the amplifier and speaker wiring are okay.
  9. Connect the accessories in front of the amp (crossovers, equalizers, etc.) one at a time and check for alternator whine. When each device is tested, there should be nothing plugged into the input of that device. In this way, we will work toward the source unit piece by piece. Be sure to turn the system power off before connecting or disconnecting any cables or accessories.
  10. Repeat step 9 until all accessories have been tested.
  11. If a particular accessory is causing noise, try disconnecting it's power ground wire. Go to step 9.
  12. Now it's time to connect the source unit. Do that now and test for noise.
  13. If noise is present, try unplugging the antenna. If the noise goes away, you will need to use an antenna isolator. This little gismo opens the shield wire of the coax to eliminate the ground loop caused by the ground at the antenna.
  14. If you still have noise, try connecting the source unit's ground wire in another location,. preferably as close to the source unit as possible.
  15. Does the noise vary in amplitude when you adjust the volume control? If it does, the problem is probably power line related and not a ground loop. If this is the case, run the source unit's B+ (yellow) wire directly to the positive terminal of the battery. If this doesn't do the trick, you will probably have to use a power line filter on the source unit's B+ (Yel) and Ignition (Red) wires.
EDIT 2: Found this on our forum - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...pine-hu-2.html

Last edited by ByDesign : 28th August 2010 at 23:15.
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Old 29th August 2010, 16:46   #14
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Post some pics of the HU.

Alternator whine: The installer is trying to explain away what he is unable to figure out a solution for! The problem is improper grounding of the amp. Ask him to redo it properly.
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Old 29th August 2010, 17:16   #15
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I took these just for you just now. Shoddy picture quality attributes to my Rs. 32k Motorola Milestone!
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Advice on ICE - New Palio MJD [DELHI]-20100829_171133_502.jpg  

Advice on ICE - New Palio MJD [DELHI]-20100829_171200_132_delhi.jpg  

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