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Old 4th October 2010, 18:00   #46
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Good to hear your issue is resolved. From all the symptoms, it was very obvious it was a cable issue.


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Originally Posted by pras.oct25 View Post
Secondly, how can you depend on the installer, or others for doing your tuning for you?

I took inputs from the equalizer setting he had done to arrive at the perfect combination.
Tuning should be done to each person's taste. What one perceives as bright or heavy might be just the opposite for someone else.
I'm sorry I don't agree with you on this. I think it's the installer's job (and I'm not saying this specific to PZ or any other installer) to understand the taste of the customer, way before he gets down to tuning it perfectly to the customer's taste. Because, otherwise on what basis is he recommending the configuration to the client in the first place?

After setting up the system to what the installer thinks is ideal, he should let the client hear the setup for a while and come back to him with his feedback. Based on which further customization can be done. That's my take.
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Old 4th October 2010, 21:48   #47
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
I'm sorry I don't agree with you on this. I think it's the installer's job (and I'm not saying this specific to PZ or any other installer) to understand the taste of the customer, way before he gets down to tuning it perfectly to the customer's taste. Because, otherwise on what basis is he recommending the configuration to the client in the first place?

After setting up the system to what the installer thinks is ideal, he should let the client hear the setup for a while and come back to him with his feedback. Based on which further customization can be done. That's my take.
Somehow I have always felt that it is just not possible for an installer to be able to cater to everyone's taste of music. Even if he manages to recommend products based on the customer's description, at the end of the day how one perceives the music coming from the setup will be different.
A simple case being how everyone kept saying polk db is bright, while I insisted on having them in my car cause I loved the clarity. I have only the 4 speakers and HU running right now, and that itself took me 2 weeks to adjust to my liking. How does one judge an installer's ability to tune an amp + 4 high end speakers + HU + sub over a period of a few hours?
To compare one installer to another based on tuning abilities is unfair, and expecting him to cater to all kinds of ears is even more unfair.
Yes, if the installer doesnt know the ABC of tuning, thats a different case altogether.

And just a quick word on your point about the customer's taste - In this era where people go around with 80 gb and 120gb ipods, and with the amount of music available for download on the internet, everyone pretty much downloads and loads all kinds of music onto their respective devices. It really is very very difficult to find the perfect setup that will bring out the best in all these songs. I think the installer needs to give the most balanced setup, and the customer has to work on it further based on his taste.

Last edited by pras.oct25 : 4th October 2010 at 21:52.
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Old 5th October 2010, 19:53   #48
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IMHO, Tuning is not just about tweaking with few equilizers, faders and balance. It is not just about getting the sound sharp or laidback.

To me tuning is;
  • Setting the Gains right, (Done in a proper way, by sending test signals)
  • Ensuring my crossovers are correctly set, so that i dont have dark spots in my Freq range
  • Correct adjustment of slopes
  • Ensure Imaging and sound stage as liked by the user (includes positioning of Tweeters etc..)
And for these, i dont think the installer needs to know the customer preference, rather he needs to know the equipment he is selling well enough.

All the tuning is only in getting the setup, the right way and not as per user's requirements. Ofcourse, once this is done correctly, we as users can always tweak whatever our limited knowledge could comprehend and bring it to our taste.

Last edited by Mi10 : 5th October 2010 at 19:54.
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Old 5th October 2010, 20:27   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
To me tuning is;
  • Setting the Gains right, (Done in a proper way, by sending test signals)
  • Ensuring my crossovers are correctly set, so that i dont have dark spots in my Freq range
  • Correct adjustment of slopes
  • Ensure Imaging and sound stage as liked by the user (includes positioning of Tweeters etc..)
Let us all know if you find someone who can do all that, in Chennai, at least Oh yes, and not charge more than a couple of Ks.
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Old 5th October 2010, 20:39   #50
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Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
[/list]Let us all know if you find someone who can do all that, in Chennai, at least Oh yes, and not charge more than a couple of Ks.
Hey its just my take on 'Installer's tuning'. Dont get me wrong!

Why Chennai ?, i am sure none of it happens in other places as well.

But probably if one of us open a shop someday, it would be really good if we set such high standards.
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Old 5th October 2010, 21:05   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Hey its just my take on 'Installer's tuning'. Dont get me wrong!

Why Chennai ?, i am sure none of it happens in other places as well.

But probably if one of us open a shop someday, it would be really good if we set such high standards.


With your kind of inventory of "spare" ice, a shop can definitely be started But your fetish for upgrade every other day, people might suspect that you are passing your used stuff on new installs, and getting the new stuff on yours, on the sly.LOL.

On the other hand, are we not screwing up the songs by going to insane lengths on tuning? How do one knows what was the music composer's intention? And, as I was asking Gilead the other day, is there any "mother of all tuning" setting which will play nice across all genres? What's the fun if for each song the eq needs to be adjusted? Or, am I asking/expecting too much?

Last edited by sanjayc : 5th October 2010 at 21:11.
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Old 5th October 2010, 22:00   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
But your fetish for upgrade every other day, people might suspect that you are passing your used stuff on new installs, and getting the new stuff on yours, on the sly.LOL.


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Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post

On the other hand, are we not screwing up the songs by going to insane lengths on tuning? How do one knows what was the music composer's intention? And, as I was asking Gilead the other day, is there any "mother of all tuning" setting which will play nice across all genres? What's the fun if for each song the eq needs to be adjusted? Or, am I asking/expecting too much?
If tuning is only equilizers and faders then you are right, we are not really bringing out the composer's original flavour of music. And there is never a ,"mother of tuning" setting for this type.

Rather, if you can view tuning as a professional method of replicating the full frequency spectrum, through apt positioning and setting of Audio equipments, then this can actually can be your "mother of tuning" setting.

IMHO, there can only be two ways in tuning, its either right or wrong. If you get it right, all your fine tuning with equilizers, faders, TA to suit your taste will enhance the overall appeal. But if you get it wrong, whatever fine tuning you do, it will just not sound right.

Ideally i am viewing it like this;
So Tuning (Installer recomended) - Gains, X overs, RTA measurement, Equipment Positioning
Fine Tuning (User preference) - Equilizers, Faders, TA, Bass Boost etc...
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Old 5th October 2010, 23:17   #53
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Anachronix, I'm thinking why PZ has done this to you while other Bhpians were giving a +VE feedback from their install. Anyhow, I'm happy that your problem is resolved. . Kindly PM me the 2nd installer details.

Last edited by whizzkid_ram : 5th October 2010 at 23:21.
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Old 5th October 2010, 23:25   #54
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Anachronix, glad that all your issues are sorted out. Please post your current installer's details here so that everyone can benefit out of it.
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Old 6th October 2010, 11:12   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
i dont think the installer needs to know the customer preference.
I disagree. I believe the installer should ask the user for his/her preferences. My wife's ANHC and GTO's Civic have similar speakers (similar not same) and the decisions in both cases were taken after listening to the user's prepective. My wife listens to Jazz (Miles, Dizzy, etc..), GTO listens to very different music.
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Old 6th October 2010, 11:21   #56
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Anachronix, This Thread would be complete only if you could post the details of the "Other Installer", cost of rewiring and reinstall and also which other Bhp'n helped you with the re-install.
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Old 6th October 2010, 14:05   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
i dont think the installer needs to know the customer preference, rather he needs to know the equipment he is selling well enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I disagree. I believe the installer should ask the user for his/her preferences. My wife's ANHC and GTO's Civic have similar speakers (similar not same) and the decisions in both cases were taken after listening to the user's prepective. My wife listens to Jazz (Miles, Dizzy, etc..), GTO listens to very different music.
Going thru various ICE "show-off" forums/threads, mostly, it is the vehicle owner who are deciding and purchasing the ICE items, and landing up at the "installer" to get the installing done...Wonder how much leeway an "installer" gets in such instances to know the customer prefrences and do the tuning accordingly. Is there a need to demarcate between "sound consultants/engineers" & "installers".

Regarding positioning of speakers, apart from tweeters (that too in rare cases like what Frankmehta has done), does anyone have any choice other than placements in stock locations?

Coming to the point of listening preferences, am I out of luck if I listen to say 50% Bollywood, 30% Ghazals/Classicals/Oldies, 10% Tamil/Telugu & 10% Western - Is there any setup which will cater to such needs, and still not burn a biggish hole in the pocket?
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Old 6th October 2010, 17:08   #58
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I would agree with Mi10, there are 2 parts of tuning.

1. Getting the basics right (Gain settings in Amp/Adjusting the HU to match the speaker mode/cross over settings in the comps). A basic installer has to get this right. Choosing the right location to mount the speakers will also make a good installer.

2. The EQ settings. This is something I would like to change to my taste. Somedays I listen to rock genre where I look for good vocals and Indian OSTs which sounds bad with the vocals high. The installer's job is to get this atleast 75% right. Simply means a happy customer when he leaves after the work is done and is able to adjust the EQ settings to his taste which will make it 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
Anachronix, This Thread would be complete only if you could post the details of the "Other Installer", cost of rewiring and reinstall and also which other Bhp'n helped you with the re-install.
The "other installer" is a located around the same location as Powerzone, revealing his name here might create unnecessary confusions. If you are still interested to know, PM me!

You dint know the BHPian yet!?

Cost:
Genuine E2 RCA - 500
Grounding Pin - 10
RCA remove & reinstall & grounding - 300

Last edited by anachronix : 6th October 2010 at 17:19.
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Old 6th October 2010, 17:31   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
Coming to the point of listening preferences, am I out of luck if I listen to say 50% Bollywood, 30% Ghazals/Classicals/Oldies, 10% Tamil/Telugu & 10% Western - Is there any setup which will cater to such needs, and still not burn a biggish hole in the pocket?
Yes, all you need is a wise choice of components with reasonable expectations
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Old 11th October 2010, 11:24   #60
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Mate, it is not the amp,. but rather the installation that has caused the issue. If you paid somebody to do the job, then it is fair they rectify the problem for you.
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