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Old 29th October 2010, 18:22   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
It is the alternator not keeping up with the ICE or the ELD playing. To confirm this simply measure the voltage when the dipping occurs.
How will you do it? I asked a friend of mine and he says even on a multimeter it'll only be momentary unless you are looking for lowest voltage across a specified period of time.
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Old 29th October 2010, 19:50   #32
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It will in the tune of 11-12 volts if this happens when the alternator is not charging. So it will be easily measurable. A amp will not shutdown under momentary fluctuations.

I have joined this forum in mar06 to ask the same question...

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...much-load.html

And today I am getting one as I am running 8000 rms load in my car which is no joke in any terms. Will sure share all the experience in the forum when I have achieved the same.
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Old 29th October 2010, 19:57   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
It will in the tune of 11-12 volts if this happens when the alternator is not charging. So it will be easily measurable. A amp will not shutdown under momentary fluctuations.

I have joined this forum in mar06 to ask the same question...

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...much-load.html

And today I am getting one as I am running 8000 rms load in my car which is no joke in any terms. Will sure share all the experience in the forum when I have achieved the same.
Sorry sir noob here please do post pics if possible. This is turning out to be an interesting thread from the beginning. A drop of a second or two would mean a voltage clipping of only 3~5 seconds not more. So you will have to watch out pretty intense. Best of luck!
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Old 29th October 2010, 20:21   #34
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Hondata Flash Pro can apparently disable the ELD. Worth looking into?
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Old 29th October 2010, 20:26   #35
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I suspect the alternator. You would NOT need to upgrade the altrenator. This is an issue with the diode pack also known as “diode trio pack”. You can go to a local expert auto electrician and get this checked. If even one of these diode pairs go bad, the alternator can appear to be working just fine in your Civic, but not delivering a full charge to the battery.

Alternator Diode failure can happen due to the following reasons.

If there is a defective connection between the battery and the alternator, charging current will be forced to find an alternate route to flow out toward the battery. A defective connection may be caused by corrosion or an open circuit from a break in several battery cable stands. The alternate route the current finds usually leads to excessive current flow, causing the diodes to overheat and fail. In your case Diode overheating could have occurred when the alternator was utilized to bring the undercharged battery (remember, your car was not used for 3 days and it happened post the initial charging) up to a fully charged condition. As the vehicle is driven to bring an undercharged battery up to the correct voltage, the excessive current flow can overheat the diodes, leading to failure.
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Old 29th October 2010, 21:02   #36
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@GTO - You could also changing the pulley on the alternator to an overdrive pulley. Its an easy way to increase the alternator RPM when the engine is at Idle RPM.

Last edited by CrackedHead : 29th October 2010 at 21:15.
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Old 29th October 2010, 21:35   #37
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Does the volume goes up and down? In earlier HUs there used to be a feature called ASL (Auto Sound Levelizer) This is a feature which sometimes you feel the volume goes low in a certain volume eg.

If a soundtrack is playing @the volume of 20 sounding crisp and clear sometimes the same soundtrack @the volume of 20 sounds like your playing it on the volume of 8 and suddenly the volume goes high as your listening @the volume of 30.

If you did not face the problem since the time the system was installed,then it should not be a ELD issue try it
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Old 30th October 2010, 10:51   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Hondata Flash Pro can apparently disable the ELD. Worth looking into?
No GTO this would be a last resrot solution. I'd not advise messing with the ECU and it's associated components unless we have a Honda expert on board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedHead View Post
@GTO - You could also changing the pulley on the alternator to an overdrive pulley.
I think the ECU might copensate for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by decode View Post
I suspect the alternator. You would NOT need to upgrade the altrenator. This is an issue with the diode pack also known as “diode trio pack”.
You are assuming that the rectifier is damaged. In which case the issue would be consistent and not only at idle when the car is driven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible
Apart from this you could also switch to Full range class D amps that slightly more efficient and draw less current compared to the Class AB amps.
Superb Idea. Ajay proposed this to me yesterday too. My suggestion was more efficient speakers but that would mean that GTO would have to tune his set up all over again.

I would just switch the Subwoofer amp to class D first. If that works then whny change all the other amps.

GTO these amps are class D
a. the Memphis 1100 (Class D MClass Amplifiers from Memphis Car Audio)
b. JL Audio 750 (JL Audio HD750/1 Amplifiers - Car Audio Amps & Amplifiers), c. DLS 1600 (Performance CAD15 - 1,6 kilowatt class D)
obviously there are many many more some as cheap as $500.

However a simple check to ascertain if this would work is to simple disconnect 1 of the 2 DLS amps that feeds the rear speakers. I think Vanhallen suggested this in an earlier post.

GTO can you live with a front speaker+subwoofer solution for a week?

Last edited by navin : 30th October 2010 at 10:52.
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Old 30th October 2010, 12:10   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I think the ECU might copensate for this.
NO, It is a very basic physics talk. In a car alternator the higher the RPM higher the current capacity. At idle the HONDA stock 80 amps alternator would be making something like 40 amps. Which us quite less for the demanding step of GTO. It will be good for a normal four speaker but not for a subwoofer setup if played for long durations. For short burst it will be okay as the battery will supply the excessive current. But in a long run it will get drained and voltage dip will occur. Also in a bumper to bumper traffice the ambient temp is quite high which further makes the car electrical to work harder.

MechMan.com - High Output Alternators, AGM Batteries, 12- & 16-volt Charging Systems for Car Audio

220 amp output -Full output by 1800 rpm engine speed
-Excellent output at idle, 125 amps by 800 rpm engine speed !!


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Old 30th October 2010, 16:39   #40
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bypass ELD. in a nutshell, ELD doesn't know as amp draws power fr batt. the other way out, though not recommended is wiring through ELD instead of batt with a lot of mods to wiring etc... this would need time, expertise and pain.

personally, get each cell of batt checked. check all points for carbon residue. coz if its started of late and things were running fine before, something's gone wrong that was earlier fine.

hope this helps.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthre...page=0&fpart=1
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Old 30th October 2010, 19:13   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
In the end I would suggest get a High Output Alternator with alteast 150amps. Here's one 2006 NEW HONDA CIVIC HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATOR 170 AMPS

GTO's system doesn't need THAT kind of power. Its overkill. It'll also result in lesser mileage and power besides everything else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Hondata Flash Pro can apparently disable the ELD. Worth looking into?
I'd suggest to put all alternate solutions on hold till you get the new battery. We can decide on the course of action after seeing how the system reacts to this change.
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Old 30th October 2010, 19:38   #42
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Old knowledge: try everything that does not require you to change anything first. Then change one thing at a time. That's when you know if THAT particular change made any impact.
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:14   #43
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Would it help to bump up idling RPM? That should bump up output of alternator as well.
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Old 30th October 2010, 20:17   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
I'd suggest to put all alternate solutions on hold till you get the new battery. We can decide on the course of action after seeing how the system reacts to this change.
unless a single cell is causing that problem, i actually think the battery is performing top notch. which is why, at idle, the ELD cuts of charge and bring it down to 12-12.5v, coz the batt is optimally charged. whereas when he started after 3-4 days of no use, there was a drop in charge, n hence the ELD allowed more voltage to charge it n there was no volume drop.

i'd recommend getting each cell individually checked from a battery wala... they measure it with a device and you get to know if there is even a single weak link. was having a similar problem with baleno, batt used to be fully charged but once in a while, car didn't crank up... it's hard to detect, coz normal checks always show full charge and charging voltage is also correct. one cell was kaput causing erratic voltage drops... once in a while.

on a lighter note, now this seems weird and amusing... and i'm not on a high - but if its an ELD issue, it could be sorted with a weaker batt... the ELD would always try to charge it.. which would ensure amp gets the current in running engine, n i think the problem would get solved. find a weaker battery!!!
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Old 30th October 2010, 21:38   #45
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my two cents
I dont know if a 14.4V to 12V would have a *that* big influence on the volume ( at least based on my experience of building cheap amps with transformers having dreadful regulation) . Unless the power supplies on those amps can't work well at 12V ( unlikely since a switch mode PSU should have a pretty wide input, and 12V is certainly expected in a car).

Does turning the car off result in the same reduction in volume?

If it were me, if a new battery doesnt improve matters, I'd make sure that this really is the ELD kicking in before trying out any surgery, I'd run the car with some sort of passive load ( bulbs?) strapped across the 12V supply the whole time, and see if the dips still happen. Anyone know what the minimum power draw required to prevent the ELD from kicking in is ?

Last edited by greenhorn : 30th October 2010 at 21:40.
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