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Old 4th November 2010, 15:19   #91
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
All the 3 amps plunge for a short while, so it cannot be the amp's fault.
The parts that are common to all amps are the power supply (battery, alternator and the much cursed ELD) and now that you mention it the HU. However any dip at the HU end would/should show up on the Hu's display na?

GTO have you observed any dip in the lighting of thr HU's display?

ok I got a mad mad idea....keep playing with your power windows thereby ensuring the ELD is always sensing a higher current draw and asking the alternator to charge the battery fast. Dont look at me like that, it is a mad idea after all. read post 10 on the link.

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Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
No no there's something missing here. There's something missing. @GTO sir please tell us at PRECISELY what point this happens. At a signal or in traffic as you lift off the clutch. When you brake. With a/c on a/c off. Just as you gas it. At PRECISELY what point. If it recurrs sufficiently it might be something else. But please be very clear at what point it happens.

On another note There was an old old article when me and a friend were researching electric cars that said that in certain modes the alternator is cut off while start off to prevent power losses. But the above point for understanding is very important.
I agree. I have had cases that the amps would cut out only when the foot was taken of the alternator and the brake was pressed. However in GTO's case this is not consistent. At high speeds the amps dont dip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp_maniac View Post
1. Amp losing power input and thus switching off.
2. Amp not getting signal input (from HU) for a fraction which causes the issue.

Or, GTO has confirmed that the amps are switching off and the HU is feeding signals? My suggestion is to wire a set of speakers from the HU amp itself to confirm that the HU is not the weak point here. I think the regulators inside the amps will compensate any voltage variations till 12.1V. And even if there is a thing like ELD, it might switch to high charging before the trigger voltage of 12.1? Or am I sounding stupid?
I suspect the DLS amps are cutting off at 12.5V DC. I cant tell for sure untill I see the schematic. LBM-GoogleMeister-bhai, can you find the CA23's schematic puh-leeeeease!

B&T, lets do the Steg/JL amp switch. Atleast it will rule out amplifer issues and isolate it to the HU/ELD (battery and alternator have alredy been found healthy).

Last edited by navin : 4th November 2010 at 15:43.
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Old 4th November 2010, 16:02   #92
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I would like to see an isolation done. Does this set of amps have a HL>LL converter so that you can plug in a self powered source like an ipod to check? Or is there anyway to do that like a dock taking the ipods preouts. Something like what has been done for GTO's jeep. Just to be sure it is power. the HU can remain on so that won't matter.

If it doesn't dip is it possible to run a set of small portable speakers from the cigarette lighter/aux-power line using the HU preout to see that it isn't the HU responsible. This would isolate everything to one location. Either amp or HU.

If none of the above work then swap amps. I know this is irritating. But it would help get to the crux of the issue.

Last edited by valhallen.282 : 4th November 2010 at 16:06.
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Old 4th November 2010, 16:21   #93
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Something similar with DLS CA23 amps...

Dip in sound on low revs? - E46Fanatics
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Old 4th November 2010, 17:07   #94
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Let us create a list of possibilities and systematically rule out:

1. ELD malfunction
2. Battery malfunction (ruled out)
3. Alternator malfunction (Edit: ruled out)
4. Amp malfunction (ruled out)
5. HU malfunction, independent of 12V line
6. Strange coincidental malfunction - complex interaction producing malfunction
7. ACC signal malfunction (ACC signal now comes from Chassis ECU, not key switch directly) - influences HU (and amps, indirectly)
...
Please add / rule out!

Last edited by DerAlte : 4th November 2010 at 21:02.
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Old 4th November 2010, 17:40   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
If the quote above is true, then i don't understand how this is happening only for 1-second.
Could be that 1 sec is the reaction time for the ELD to detect the high load and switch the field back to 'high outupt' mode.

Last edited by Mpower : 5th November 2010 at 02:46.
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Old 4th November 2010, 18:30   #96
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superb. if you are dead sure that this is happening only at idle, and that too after having driven the car for a good 15-20 mins, with no issue having started the car 3-4 days later... it can very well be the ELD switching off alternator for a fraction of a second since the battery is perfect and alternator is producing 14 v plus.

1. like everyone is saying, check the alternator in the scenario you described... whether it cuts off charging, not at batterywala.
2. like navin is saying.. play with your power windows or attach something in cigarette socket that takes a lot of current so that ELD does not get time to switch off once u reach idle after 15-20 mins.
3. if you have fog lamps, rear defroster and heater, switch them all on at idle n see if it still persists.

try out simple do-able things before getting to capacitor, HU pre-amp etc..
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Old 4th November 2010, 19:17   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Alternator malfunction
Alternator charging was checked yesterday on idle and with all gizmos on. Ruled out.

Going on a road trip this weekend, thus Ajay has connected the subwoofer amp back. It's just not my car without the "thub thub thub"

When I'm back, Ajay's going to replace the 2 DLS speaker amps with more efficient ones (some class D 4 channel) and check for sound dips.
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Old 4th November 2010, 19:28   #98
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@GTO happy roadtrippin! If you're of the bent try ramjam/spiderbaits black betty! Real road trippin!

And for a trance nut with lotsa deep bass try puscifier Indigo Children!

Hope your system doesn't bother you too much!
If you need the tracks ping me
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Old 4th November 2010, 20:26   #99
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i suppose you missed my idea of connecting one or two amps after the ELD. this will keep your system voltage always above the stock threshold. nothing will happen to alternator. its similar to running the power windows continuously.

you can do this also to isolate problem with headunit or wiring from it which might be shaking in stop and go traffic.

Last edited by gigy : 4th November 2010 at 20:28.
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Old 4th November 2010, 20:31   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Alternator charging was checked yesterday on idle and with all gizmos on. Ruled out.
sir, very simply, with all car gizmos on that are routed through the company mechanism, the ELD will NOT shut the alternator off as sensors detect load.

it will do so only when your battery is fully charged and electrical load is very low, especially at idle and cruise to increase FE.

now, because the amps are directly routed through battery, the ELD gets fooled in thinking that battery is fully charged... may be for a fraction of a second it reduces the resistance in alternator.. only to find a sudden draw back from the battery and kicks back in. i.e. logically... though i have known that logic is not the best way to go about anything - music or wives!

try music at idle in the problem scenario with all the gizmos on - the heater, not the AC, the fog lamps, the defroster.. things that take load and will not allow ELD to switch off alternator even for a fraction of a second. if it works with gizmos on... it's an ELD issue. if it still dips... it's not really the ELD.
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Old 4th November 2010, 21:01   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
... ramjam/spiderbaits black betty! ... puscifier Indigo Children! ...
Were these names generated by an automatic random text generator? I suspect @Valhallen is a computer with quad-core CPU running superior artificial intelligence software. (Disclaimer: No malice intended, no offense meant!)

Last edited by DerAlte : 4th November 2010 at 21:04.
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Old 4th November 2010, 21:51   #102
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Were these names generated by an automatic random text generator? I suspect @Valhallen is a computer with quad-core CPU running superior artificial intelligence software. (Disclaimer: No malice intended, no offense meant!)
Haha! No don't worry none taken! I play a lot of nfs! My favourite game! And watch a lot of movies!

Ramjam/spiderbait's blackbetty was originally written for the dukes of hazzard and the General LEE: A 68 dodge charger 440 v8 with a three speed flitematic transmission. It was also one of the main tracks from nfs underground 2!

And puscifier's indigo children is a lovely lounge/trance track with a deep bass line! Its from nfs undercover! On my panasonic in-ears they sound fantastic and even better on a sub-woofer system!
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Old 5th November 2010, 00:45   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
1. ELD malfunction
5. HU malfunction, independent of 12V line
7. ACC signal malfunction (ACC signal now comes from Chassis ECU, not key switch directly) - influences HU (and amps, indirectly)
...
ELD is doing what it was designed to do.
HU malfunction: long shot.
ACC malfunction: hmmm...worth checking out but with a Pro like Ajay on the job I would doubt he would overlook this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
it can very well be the ELD switching off alternator for a fraction of a second since the battery is perfect and alternator is producing 14 v plus.

2. like navin is saying.. play with your power windows or attach something in cigarette socket that takes a lot of current so that ELD does not get time to switch off once u reach idle after 15-20 mins.

try out simple do-able things before getting to capacitor, HU pre-amp etc..
exactly...BTW I consider the capacitor an easy change (it might fix anything though). However I ceased to be a logical man once I got married so that's why I said to try the capacitor. Ajay is still single and Sam has not spent enough married time to loose his logical sense yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Ajay's going to replace the 2 DLS speaker amps with more efficient ones
I think he is going to replace the DLS with Steg. Steg is Class AB but tightly regulated so less affected by dips in battery voltage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigy View Post
i suppose you missed my idea of connecting one or two amps after the ELD.
Dont do that. The ELD is not designed to take that load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by montyguru View Post
it will do so only when your battery is fully charged and electrical load is very low, especially at idle and cruise to increase FE.

now, because the amps are directly routed through battery, the ELD gets fooled in thinking that battery is fully charged... may be for a fraction of a second it reduces the resistance in alternator.. only to find a sudden draw back from the battery and kicks back
hmm...monty sahib, you talking my language now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
Ramjam/spiderbait's blackbetty was originally written for the dukes of hazzard and the General LEE
What? Duke of Hazzard last was seen in 1984/5. I dont think these artists were even born then and from what I remember it was a 1969 dodge charger that was race tuned (doors were welded shut and it had a roll bar). Sorry to point this out but this is a car site na? Obviously there were many General Lees (with all those stunts) so I assume some of them might have been 1968 machines made to look like 1969 (what ever those minor changes are) and not all of them would have had 440s. The one at Petersen (in LA) has a 383 cu. in for example. TV budgets were not that big in the 70s and 80s so they might have even had a few small blocks (318 cu. in) for use when stunts were not required.

Last edited by navin : 5th November 2010 at 00:53.
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Old 5th November 2010, 07:06   #104
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Navi sir. Yes you are right. You speak of the american tv series from the 80's. That was also remade into a move late 90's just to cash in. This movie featured burt reynolds and jessica simpson. One might remember her song these boots are made for walking. Ramjam is called the original artist for an old country folk song called black betty played on a banjo. Spiderbait remade the song with a rock twist and a beautiful black dodge pickup.
The general lee you're right featured the 69 version. They had a 318 68 model, 380 69 and the 440 bigblock that I speak of. The only thing I remembered last night was the big block. :-D you could HAZZARD a guess why. Its been a dream to be able to drive that, the chevy chevelle SS and the hallowed cobras.
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Old 5th November 2010, 07:22   #105
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ELD is just a current sensing hall effect sensor. has the function of load detection and protection.
it cant be rated less than the alternator max continuous current output.
alternator does have a excess capacity in addition to the total current demand of the car stock electricals.
one amplifier after the ELD may increase current by 5-15amps approx.
In this case i feel whenever the radiator cooling fan is cutting in there is a voltage dip. may be running the car without ac will cause this frequency of dips to reduce.

Even though all the amplifiers are connected on the battery actually if you trace the wire its connected on the positive of the alternator also, so the loading is happening to alternator.

as per one civic diagram posted here there is a 100amp fuse between alternator and battery.
load signal is a separate wire going to ELD.
Attached Thumbnails
Car audio losing sound at low rpms! EDIT : Solved by "The Steg"-v6altwiring2.jpg  


Last edited by gigy : 5th November 2010 at 07:41.
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