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Old 20th December 2010, 21:50   #16
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
PS: abhih, the links you have posted do not show Scosche saying it. These are commercial sites selling these goods (more like shopkeepers selling goods).
That's what i have been trying to say. Distributors sells it to retailers as 8 gauge and then retailers sell it to customers as 8 gauge.

I have the same kit in Skoda powering a Bull 4 ch amp which require current capacity of more than 20A and have power output more than 845 or 8404. No problems till now since past 6 months. The only music ever played in that car is HIP-HOP and RnB.

I am not denying the fact the GT500 had a bad experience and its sad.

Also we have been using a 7 gauge Kit with a 500W RMS mono and there are no problems since past 1.5 years. And to add to the twist we have used the same mono with a 4 gauge wiring and in both cases the bass out put was same and no dimming etc. Considering car electronics into play at any given point that Class D mono amp will not be used to its limits and 90% of the time the music is played at moderate volumes.
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Old 21st December 2010, 00:00   #17
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

@abhih: I understood your perspective in your previous post itself & though different people have different ideologies, I feel that at least some responsibility rests with the shopkeeper as well (even more so when it is of an outfit which is considered relatively superior in more ways than one). If a distributor sells it as 8 guage & the same is done by the retailer as well, despite having no authentic information on this, then I suppose it is wrong. I have taken the help of an example to illustrate this in my previous post, that of the sale of a real estate property.

The issue is not just about the guage per se, rather it’s more about an expectation that comes associated with rave reviews/recommendations of an outfit. The company (Scosche) never mentions the guage, does not provide any figures that could clearly point at the guage measure; if you & I can understand this, then how difficult is it for another person to understand it & not propose (with confident assurance) a figure or parameter which is not specified. Moreover, why is it difficult to tell that the setup will work but it is not the best solution? For the optimum/best solution, you would need an 8 guage & I cannot be sure of this kit however this is the only kit I have in your budget etc, it should have been clarified like this in the first place. On the contrary, gt500 was assured that this kit is most suitable for the amplifier M845. Gt500’s mistake was that he chose not to get down to all these details & trust a respectable/reputed person’s opinion & one who does this job daily.

And once again, mistakes happen but what makes or breaks the reputation & trust in an establishment is how they handle that mistake.

Lastly, once again, I am sure you are using the same kit for much more powerful setups, but is it an optimum wiring kit for such setups? I am under the assumption it is not & if it is, please enlighten me. I have not denied the fact that the setup would work & it can keep working, but is it fair to get something which is just “sufficient” against an assurance/promise of something “appropriate”? I am using the 845 for powering a Pioneer DVC sub with 400W RMS & it is running fine & I am sure it would run fine without issues for many years to come. However, I bought this combination knowing that the amplifier is not enough to let the subwoofer reach it’s full potential. I understood very clearly that though the subwoofer would give bass, it will not be as good as it can be because of the amplifier’s limit. So, 845 is not the most suitable or best combination with the subwoofer in question, however a mono can give optimum results.

Abhi, I apologize if my opinions are differing & if they made you feel offended, however such were not my intentions. I think I have repeated much of my previous post only, though I hope I was able to come across more clearly this time.

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 21st December 2010 at 00:04.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 01:07   #18
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

@gt500 @blackfire_9 : Its sad to here about your experiences at driven but yes rest assured they are certainly much better than any other establishment of Karol Bagh or Lajpat Nagar to start with, had their attitude been the same as the shops you are comparing them with you would have never got your refund on the wiring amount. I agree on the mistake the Manager made but then he rectified it by returning your money which i guess is fair enough. gt500 was refunded the money, blackfire_9 was money refunded??

Also which JBL wiring kit have you guys got installed, as far as my knowledge goes JBL use to make only one Power wiring kit which was 4 Gauge and whose production/distribution was stopped long time back.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 10:43   #19
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

@m4ugr8: Thank you for the condolences, however, we cannot be assured that Driven is any better than any other shop doing the same business, be it in KB, Lajpat Nagar, or some other locality. In fact, based on my experience, they are an average outfit at best doing this business & there’s nothing that justifies them being called “better” or “above” other such establishments. And I feel it’s only unfair to generalize & label other establishments at other localities as "not as good" or "not having the right attitude".

You have rightly said, it’s the attitude & the approach that matters. And this was the very reason apart from their so-called “technical expertise”, that we even went to them to get our installations done. In fact, gt500 had not had a good experience with them for the installation of components in his car during stage-1, but he also still decided in their favor based on the faith that they have a professional attitude & are technically sound.
Furthermore, even after the issue came to light, we had never expected the kind of responses we got that were clearly directed at denials & at dismissing this whole incident. With all due respect, had it been a “better” & more professional attitude, we wouldn’t have had to go through what we did. And it’s never a single drop that makes up the ocean, & I think all of us know that. The thread lists numerous instances when we were surprised at their responses, be it about the technical knowhow or professionalism.

I understand the difference between a professional setup & an unprofessional one (like the ones you have pointed towards in KB & Lajpat Nagar) but please let me say that the kind of knowledge that Driven or Mr.Rana had (at least w.r.t our installations) is the same as with any other shop/outfit or its respective manager/shopkeeper. In fact, just to quote another incident, while conversing with Mr.Rana on the subwoofer, he had suggested that I use the D4 since D2 wasn’t available & that D4 or D2 does not make a difference. It was only when I told him (based on my little knowledge) that D4 would present an impedance of either 2 or 8 ohms, did he understand that D4 should not be used. Surprisingly, most of those “looked down upon” or “unprofessional” shops in the localities you suggested were clear on this very basic fundamental. Sure, D4 can work but D2 is the ideal way ahead, & an establishment dealing in this trade should be clear on that; all the more when it is rated or spoken of as “better”.

My money was refunded, but at what cost. I don’t need to repeat about the attitude that we had to bear. Moreover, basic professionalism would suggest that in such scenarios, the outfit should get the wiring kit replaced & if they cannot provide a replacement then at least get the kit removed & refund the money back to the customer. Instead, we were asked to pay labour charges to get the kit removed, let alone replacement. To this day my loss stands at about 1K, barring the numerous phone calls & most importantly my time. This clearly shows the attitude, & if you call this “better”, then to each his own.

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 22nd December 2010 at 10:47.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 11:07   #20
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

This experience has no doubt left a bitter taste in your mouth as well as that of gt500.It has been painful to say the least, just reading about it.
I sincerely hope that the effort, time, money invested in it is well worth it when u crank up the volume on your newly installed ICE!! somewhere deep down, if THAT brings a smile on your face, all these inital hiccups are soon forgotten, what say? I'm not defending the installer so please don't mis understand me, All i'm saying is, if the equipment involved brings your face even one-two years from now, who's going to think about the troubles u faced while getting it installed right?
Cheers!
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Old 22nd December 2010, 11:33   #21
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

GT500/Blackfire9,

I too have had a bad expereince with a ICE shop in Mumbai. When I moved back to Mumbai from the US I was advised to visit a shop (that has since closed as the owners moved on to other audio related ventures). When I first talked to them I realised that this shop was a shop I did not want to do business with so I took my ears, money, and principles and left. This was a time (late 80s- early 90s) when my knowledge of audio was much better than it is now (I have not done much since 1995-6).

Funny thing happened. After I left many others also reported that this shop was condesending, arrogant, etc...so I guess I was not alone. I am not saying or implying Driven is similar but the moral is that if you are not 100% comfortable, walk. You are doing them a favour (with your business) not the other way around. You are paying them.

It is always much better to first ensure that the person you are giving your car to is someone you trust, who understands you needs, and understands the products they are installing. If you dont know a shop you are comfortable with shop around. Do not go to the first shop you are recommended.

We at TBHP have created a section for users to post their expereinces for the benefit of other users. see link below

Team-BHP Directory - Team-BHP

Reviews that retain a fair degree of objectivity and are not used to damage the reputation of garages, tuners, installers and other professionals are welcome.

Last edited by navin : 22nd December 2010 at 11:38.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 12:19   #22
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
I agree on the mistake the Manager made but then he rectified it by returning your money which i guess is fair enough.

Also which JBL wiring kit have you guys got installed, as far as my knowledge goes JBL use to make only one Power wiring kit which was 4 Gauge and whose production/distribution was stopped long time back.
@m4ugr8

As you said the Manager made a mistake, but the point is how he reacted to it.
After being confronted with the mistake, there was total denial, In fact he would not get the wiring kit changed/removed and was of the opinion that we should pay labor charges for this to him.
Demanding labor charges for a mistake committed by him says it all.

The JBL kit is an authentic kit as pictured on the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raghav.carfreak View Post
This experience has no doubt left a bitter taste in your mouth as well as that of gt500.It has been painful to say the least, just reading about it.
I sincerely hope that the effort, time, money invested in it is well worth it when u crank up the volume on your newly installed ICE!! somewhere deep down, if THAT brings a smile on your face, all these inital hiccups are soon forgotten, what say? I'm not defending the installer so please don't mis understand me, All i'm saying is, if the equipment involved brings your face even one-two years from now, who's going to think about the troubles u faced while getting it installed right?
Cheers!
You are absolutely correct, and I totally agree with you.
And yes initial hiccups do occur , no doubt.
But the way they are handled can turn them into a nightmare.
In my case a simple acceptance of the mistake could have kept things a little more pleasant.

Cheers

GT
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Old 22nd December 2010, 20:49   #23
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Default Re: New "tun-tuna" in the car! ( Swift ICE )

Quote:
Originally Posted by raghav.carfreak View Post
This experience has no doubt left a bitter taste in your mouth as well as that of gt500.It has been painful to say the least, just reading about it.
I sincerely hope that the effort, time, money invested in it is well worth it when u crank up the volume on your newly installed ICE!! somewhere deep down, if THAT brings a smile on your face, all these inital hiccups are soon forgotten, what say? I'm not defending the installer so please don't mis understand me, All i'm saying is, if the equipment involved brings your face even one-two years from now, who's going to think about the troubles u faced while getting it installed right?
Cheers!
Thanks man!

And indeed you are right; the end result is what we all hope to be good. Plus, I am nobody to define what’s right or wrong, but the sole intention of our (mine & gt500’s) threads & posts is to share our experience the exact way things happened for the benefit of our fellow members (it’s up to them to decide what’s correct & what’s not) & also to bring a few key issues to light so that they can be taken care of to prevent such instances from happening again.

And hey, just because you mentioned, it’s not the end yet for my ICE
Few things planned, however, will post about them as & when things take shape.

Drive safe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
GT500/Blackfire9,

I am not saying or implying Driven is similar but the moral is that if you are not 100% comfortable, walk. You are doing them a favour (with your business) not the other way around. You are paying them.

It is always much better to first ensure that the person you are giving your car to is someone you trust, who understands you needs, and understands the products they are installing. If you dont know a shop you are comfortable with shop around. Do not go to the first shop you are recommended.

We at TBHP have created a section for users to post their expereinces for the benefit of other users. see link below

Team-BHP Directory - Team-BHP

Reviews that retain a fair degree of objectivity and are not used to damage the reputation of garages, tuners, installers and other professionals are welcome.
You are absolutely correct & in fact, adding further to what you have said, there is a quote in our mother-tongue which goes like this, “suno sabki, par karo apne mann ki”.

But sir, with all due respect, sharing a bitter experience with an outfit that is often ascribed to being “better” doesn’t reflect that we did not check with a few other shops or that we went to the first shop suggested/recommended to us.
Driven was not the only shop/outfit recommended to us & it was certainly not the only place we went to. And some of the few other shops we went visiting were not even recommended by anybody.

When I went to Driven (both for stage-1 & stage-2), I had gone there with a neutral & open mind so that I could decide on my own if I felt comfortable entrusting my car to them for the installation or not. Surely, the reviews & good things that are often spoken of for them were one of the factors that helped us in deciding in their favor (I think it would be the same way for most of us), but not the only determinants/factors.
And as I have already written in this thread earlier (as well as my thread), the outfit did seem professional based on our initial conversations. Now I am not as technically gifted as many others & I could only understand as much through my conversations with them. I cannot afford to get into the depths of ICE technicalities & I felt I don’t need to if I can find a trustworthy & professional setup that can do this job for me. Moreover, once you are comfortable with an outfit/shop, you need to bestow a certain amount of trust in the installers as well as the shop.

The equipment, including the wiring kit, was finalized based on whatever little information/knowledge I had been able to gather & it was Okayed by even the installers there. But since the requested kit was not available, we were suggested the Scosche kit in question with a promise & an assurance about which much has been written in the thread already. I think it was only fair for us to show faith (at this stage) when the concerned people at the outfit assured us of an appropriate product.

Sadly, most of the issues/nuances (details of which are in thread) came to light during or after the installation was done. Our only fault or mistake (if we may like to think so) is to have shown faith in the outfit & that too more than once. I believed & still do that some times despite the best of efforts, mistakes happen or things might slip out of our minds, however, there are certain unsaid codes of conduct or rules of any trade which should never be forgotten & this is precisely what happened at Driven.

As for the directory link, I would shortly be putting up a brief post about my experience there. Thank you for the link navin sir.

Drive safe.
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