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Old 18th February 2011, 16:07   #1
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Smile Need advise on damping for i10

Hi,

I have the following setup in my wife's i10.

- Pioneer 6050 UB (single DIN)
- JBL CS60.4 (4-channel AMP)
- Infinity Ref 6030CS (Front compos)
- JBL 608C (Rear compos)
- JBL Bass Tube 12"

The front compos and the sub are powered by the Amp while the rear compos are driven by the HU. I normally play MP3s from the USB source, bitrate is usually 256+.

Here are the questions I have:
- Since the rear compos are powered directly from the HU, will the Fader control help in balancing the output between the front and rear or is there a need for a 2 channel amp to get them even. Currently, I'm setting the Fader to +4 for the rear but I'm not convinced if this is the answer.

- The vibrations in the car are far more than what I experience in my Safari which has a sealed box. Would a sealed sub be the answer in getting a punchier beat. Alternately, would damping the doors help in this regard if I dont want to replace the tube.

- Last and final question . If I replace the bass tube, would a 8" sealed sub be enough or will I need a 12". I was told that since I'm running two sets of compos, its better to get the 12".

For all those who may wonder, my wife isnt an audiophile and she doesnt really complain of the current setup too. It's me since I use that car over the weekends.
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Old 18th February 2011, 16:16   #2
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Here are the questions I have:
- Since the rear compos are powered directly from the HU, will the Fader control help in balancing the output between the front and rear or is there a need for a 2 channel amp to get them even. Currently, I'm setting the Fader to +4 for the rear but I'm not convinced if this is the answer.

- The vibrations in the car are far more than what I experience in my Safari which has a sealed box. Would a sealed sub be the answer in getting a punchier beat. Alternately, would damping the doors help in this regard if I dont want to replace the tube.

- Last and final question . If I replace the bass tube, would a 8" sealed sub be enough or will I need a 12". I was told that since I'm running two sets of compos, its better to get the 12".
a. Most modern HUs allow you to us ethe speaker or RCA out for the rear channel hence the fader should work evenif teh HU is driving the rear speakers however I am not familiar with the 6050 in particular.

b. A selaed sub usually offers much "tighter" bass than a tube. While the quality of this bass is better ia sealed box requires much more power to attain the same SPL as a tube sub. You can tune a sealed sub (within reason) to deliver punch to taste by choosing a suitable box size.

c. Damping the doors alwyuas help. I consider damping as the most VFM upgrade for any car system.

d. A 12" tube will produce more bass (though not nesscarily of the same quality) as a well designed sealed box with a 12" woofer. If you are used to the bass volume of a 12" tube you wont be happy with a 8" in a sealed box.
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Old 18th February 2011, 16:20   #3
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Can't believe I am posting in the section. Anyway, I have noticed heavy vibration from the doors of my new i10 when I play heavy bass from the OE music system.

Even I would be interested to see how this can be fixed.
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Old 18th February 2011, 17:33   #4
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post

Since the rear compos are powered directly from the HU, will the Fader control help in balancing the output between the front and rear or is there a need for a 2 channel amp to get them even. Currently, I'm setting the Fader to +4 for the rear but I'm not convinced if this is the answer.
More than the fader its the gains on your amps which defines how loud your front components get compared to the rears driven from the HU directly. The other factor here would be your HPF setting on the HU. You will need to play with the gains/input level knob on the amp to get it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
The vibrations in the car are far more than what I experience in my Safari which has a sealed box. Would a sealed sub be the answer in getting a punchier beat. Alternately, would damping the doors help in this regard if I dont want to replace the tube.
Damping always takes the sound quality in the car cabin to another level and most importantly cuts off the vibrations and the rattles and I speak from personal experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Last and final question . If I replace the bass tube, would a 8" sealed sub be enough or will I need a 12". I was told that since I'm running two sets of compos, its better to get the 12".
Tube or sealed is personal preference but an 8" will not serve the purpose if you are looking for sound levels atained by the tube but you can sure tune it and tone it down to get close to being punchier but that inherent bass drag will always exist in the tube.
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Old 18th February 2011, 23:41   #5
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Question Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Thanks for the inputs, but i have some more questions now

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
a. Most modern HUs allow you to us ethe speaker or RCA out for the rear channel hence the fader should work evenif teh HU is driving the rear speakers however I am not familiar with the 6050 in particular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
More than the fader its the gains on your amps which defines how loud your front components get compared to the rears driven from the HU directly. The other factor here would be your HPF setting on the HU. You will need to play with the gains/input level knob on the amp to get it right.
So I'm guessing i can shift the balance to the rear but it wont even out the volume since the front ones are amplified. I'll play around with the gains on the amp to see if there can be a reasonable balance that can be achieved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
c. Damping the doors alwyuas help. I consider damping as the most VFM upgrade for any car system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
Damping always takes the sound quality in the car cabin to another level and most importantly cuts off the vibrations and the rattles and I speak from personal experience.
Will damping be a cure to the vibrations and also deaden some of the bass "drag" as you called it. I dont want to end up spending too much in trying to fix this issue and then realize that i need a different sub too. Also, how much moolah will it take to dampen all the doors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
b. A selaed sub usually offers much "tighter" bass than a tube. While the quality of this bass is better ia sealed box requires much more power to attain the same SPL as a tube sub. You can tune a sealed sub (within reason) to deliver punch to taste by choosing a suitable box size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
d. A 12" tube will produce more bass (though not nesscarily of the same quality) as a well designed sealed box with a 12" woofer. If you are used to the bass volume of a 12" tube you wont be happy with a 8" in a sealed box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
Tube or sealed is personal preference but an 8" will not serve the purpose if you are looking for sound levels atained by the tube but you can sure tune it and tone it down to get close to being punchier but that inherent bass drag will always exist in the tube.
Agreed that the sealed box will get me the tighter bass that I need, and now the 8" is out of question. If I do choose to put a 12" sealed sub, will the amp be enough to power it considering I've bridged two channels for it.
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Old 20th February 2011, 02:02   #6
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
So I'm guessing i can shift the balance to the rear but it wont even out the volume since the front ones are amplified. I'll play around with the gains on the amp to see if there can be a reasonable balance that can be achieved.
Well if you looking to get equal output from both the front and rear components why have the amp input for the front compo's at all? Let the HU drive both front and rear components and the amp doing its duty on the sub.... . The quality of sound rendered by the amp will be a lot different from what the HU will deliver directly to the speakers.

So, tune down the gains till you feel its balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Will damping be a cure to the vibrations and also deaden some of the bass "drag" as you called it. I dont want to end up spending too much in trying to fix this issue and then realize that i need a different sub too. Also, how much moolah will it take to dampen all the doors?
Two completely different issues, damping will only cure vibrations but not the bass drag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Agreed that the sealed box will get me the tighter bass that I need, and now the 8" is out of question. If I do choose to put a 12" sealed sub, will the amp be enough to power it considering I've bridged two channels for it.
The amp is driving your 12" tube now, so it sure will handle the sealed sub too. Try exchanging the tube for a sealed sub from the shop where u bought it, if feasible. if not it'll require some fine tuning on the HU and amps.
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Old 20th February 2011, 10:54   #7
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Thumbs up Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Thanks pawanarya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
Well if you looking to get equal output from both the front and rear components why have the amp input for the front compo's at all? Let the HU drive both front and rear components and the amp doing its duty on the sub.... . The quality of sound rendered by the amp will be a lot different from what the HU will deliver directly to the speakers.

So, tune down the gains till you feel its balanced.
I thought about just having the HU drive the speakers but then the sub may be overbearing on them. Usually the car is driven only with front seat occupants so I'll just use the fader adjustment for now and then add in another 2 channel or a mono amp if I win a lottery

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
Two completely different issues, damping will only cure vibrations but not the bass drag.
Got it! Will try damping for sure, will have to find the time and money for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
The amp is driving your 12" tube now, so it sure will handle the sealed sub too. Try exchanging the tube for a sealed sub from the shop where u bought it, if feasible. if not it'll require some fine tuning on the HU and amps.
This struck me yesterday that i can try putting a sealed sub and check the output. So I put in the 12" sealed box from my Safari and tested it. (my bad that i didnt realize i could do this at home earlier!) It was worth the effort since i didnt really like the "boom boom!" effect, may be due to lesser space overall. The sealed sub sounds nice in the bigger boot of the safari but the bass tube sounded better in the small hatch. So I can safely drop this question and stick to the tube.

All in all, I guess damping the doors is the way to go! Thanks again for all the inputs. And if i can ask just one more question, do they dampen the 4 doors only or even the hatch door?
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Old 20th February 2011, 18:46   #8
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

What is
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
... the bass drag. ...
????? Subwoofer drag-racing?
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Old 21st February 2011, 11:10   #9
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Even I would be interested to see how this can be fixed.
Samu, damping is the most VFM upgrade I can think of.

Think of it this way damping not only reduces resonances but also makes the car a bit quieter (lowers the noise floor) hence increase the efffective dynamic range of the car system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Agreed that the sealed box will get me the tighter bass that I need, and now the 8" is out of question. If I do choose to put a 12" sealed sub, will the amp be enough to power it considering I've bridged two channels for it.
Most 12" woofers will work well with about 150Wrms. If your amp can deliver about this level then you are ok. Just remember that dont use a 2ohm woofer with a bridged amp. Most amps dont like being pushed so hard. You cna use a 2+2 DVC woofer by wiring the coils in series or a 4ohm SVC woofer.
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Old 21st February 2011, 23:09   #10
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Default Re: Need advise on damping for i10

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Subwoofer drag-racing?
lol yeah... just that in this situation it would be the tube trying to get ahead of the other speakers
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