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Old 24th April 2012, 19:03   #136
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
But why this terminology of "True bus chassis"?
Volvo used this term to call their buses are from true bus chassis by giving a wrong perception on other manufacturers, as if they are using truck chassis for bus application.
No idea how and from where this terminology was framed?
What ever it is even Scania and Man has front engine buses in their port folio. But globally its not termed so, when speaking about them. Its only in India to criticise AL and TM, these phrases are used I guess.

Now this makes me think, what should be used to call the LCV/ICV buses, which is predominently FE globally.

Yes i do feel the same about this terminology .
Its probably the best way to express ,remind and wake up our home grown giants who were and to an extent are still manufacturing back breaking buses built on truck chassis . Imagine the plight of the Drivers and Passengers who had to survive this ordeal day and night for almost half a century.
To add on, your query prompted me to google it out , on to Volvo site and have a look at what i got .
Typical buses on our roads - built on a true bus chassis : Volvo Buses
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Old 25th April 2012, 06:34   #137
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Actually the red sticker is to remind the driver about the height of the bus primarily from a underpass perspective. On most of the US roads, before you approach an underpass you would have a board that mentions the height of the same.
Having the height of the bus handy will help a driver navigate the underpass (from a height perspective) expecially in unknown areas as these drivers drive a varity of buses hence sometimes might have some confusion on the exact height of the bus.
Spot on, sir.

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Its probably the best way to express ,remind and wake up our home grown giants who were and to an extent are still manufacturing back breaking buses built on truck chassis . Imagine the plight of the Drivers and Passengers who had to survive this ordeal day and night for almost half a century.
FYI, before Volvo started its operations as a bus maker in India, there were many inter-city buses. I can recollect Akbar travels, Supaa, No.1 Air etc. They were using AshLey chassis with air suspension. I doubt if they were the 12M chassis, and I've even heard people say that they were built on truck chassis. Ride was not so bad. I'd once visited Mahabalipuram and a few other places as a one-day sightseeing trip, in a tourist bus, sometime in 2001. IIRC, the operator's name was Geethalayam (and the bus had some KA-xxx-1111 registration). The ride was good, despite being an oldschool leyland. Back-breaking buses were there, but AL and TM did have comfortable buses too.

This "True Bus Chassis" is only hogwash, just like some toothpaste brand comparing itself with an "ordinary" toothpaste.

I find the air suspension in newer buses more stiff, compared to some of the old 'Air Bus'es. I've read that these days they make the bellows with harder materials to increase their lifespan by compromising ride quality. This is true for all buses fitted with air suspension, including Volvos

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No idea how and from where this terminology was framed?
Some MBA who specialised in Marketing would've searched for a catchy phrase to lure bus owners. And the result is this "True bus chassis".

Last edited by silversteed : 25th April 2012 at 06:41.
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Old 25th April 2012, 10:58   #138
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Spot on, sir.

FYI, before Volvo started its operations as a bus maker in India, there were many inter-city buses. ...The ride was good, despite being an oldschool leyland. Back-breaking buses were there, but AL and TM did have comfortable buses too.


I find the air suspension in newer buses more stiff, compared to some of the old 'Air Bus'es. I've read that these days they make the bellows with harder materials to increase their lifespan by compromising ride quality. This is true for all buses fitted with air suspension, including Volvos
+1. IIRC, KPN introduced airsuspensions on their TVS build buses (rear only) in the late 90s when rest of India was moving the so called hi-tech bus bodies with regular suspension. These KPN buses as "Pneu-Ride" and *brake boosters/ABS - can't recollect exactly" stickers on their rear glass. The ride quality was very good. Not sure whether these suspension were an after market fitment or provided by AL. The introduction of air suspension definetly improved the ride quality on the Indian buses. Volvos took it the next level with dual air suspension, retarders, smoother transmissions and higher power.
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Old 25th April 2012, 11:40   #139
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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+1. IIRC, KPN introduced airsuspensions on their TVS build buses (rear only) in the late 90s when rest of India was moving the so called hi-tech bus bodies with regular suspension. These KPN buses as "Pneu-Ride" and *brake boosters/ABS - can't recollect exactly" stickers on their rear glass. The ride quality was very good.
These Air buses came in around 1995-96. I remember in one of the articles in Ananda Vikatan K P Natarajan claimed that they would be able to take the bus from Trichy to Madurai with a bowl of water open and not a drop would spill out, though a touch exagarated there but was true in terms of the ride quality.

It used to be the time when all KPN's used to look similar with 9199 as the registration number at all times, Salem - Chennai was one of the first sectors with these Air Suspension buses, once I overheard a parent telling his son to identify his bus during midway stops by the "Airbus" written on the rear windshield. Initially the buses used to plied slower than the normal bus because of the risk in the Air Bellows breaking over bad roads.

To say the buses used to float is an understatement.
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:09   #140
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Initially the buses used to plied slower than the normal bus because of the risk in the Air Bellows breaking over bad roads.

To say the buses used to float is an understatement.
Similar the case with initial Kallada buses. It was fun to see these buses floating in city traffic especially when they applied brakes. In another instance, a weekend bus from Ernakulam to Velankanni met with an accident because the temporary driver was not able to handle air suspension bus properly.

Now, the suspension is stiffened and no longer we are able to see a floating AL/Tata bus.
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:19   #141
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Similar the case with initial Kallada buses. It was fun to see these buses floating in city traffic especially when they applied brakes. In another instance, a weekend bus from Ernakulam to Velankanni met with an accident because the temporary driver was not able to handle air suspension bus properly.

Now, the suspension is stiffened and no longer we are able to see a floating AL/Tata bus.

Folks,
Correct me if wrong.
Those earlier coaches were not the Hitech type and predominantly Tvs build etc., some even claimed Dunlop AS with stickers...
The Floating feeling besides the AS was also bcos of excessive body rolls which these could not handle.
Honestly i still prefer that type of Body build than the current hi tech ones, they were classy...miss them.

cheers
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Old 25th April 2012, 13:53   #142
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

FYI, before Volvo started its operations as a bus maker in India, there were many inter-city buses. I can recollect Akbar travels, Supaa, No.1 Air etc. They were using AshLey chassis with air suspension. I doubt if they were the 12M chassis, and I've even heard people say that they were built on truck chassis. Ride was not so bad. I'd once visited Mahabalipuram and a few other places as a one-day sightseeing trip, in a tourist bus, sometime in 2001. IIRC, the operator's name was Geethalayam (and the bus had some KA-xxx-1111 registration). The ride was good, despite being an oldschool leyland. Back-breaking buses were there, but AL and TM did have comfortable buses too.

This "True Bus Chassis" is only hogwash, just like some toothpaste brand comparing itself with an "ordinary" toothpaste.

I find the air suspension in newer buses more stiff, compared to some of the old 'Air Bus'es. I've read that these days they make the bellows with harder materials to increase their lifespan by compromising ride quality. This is true for all buses fitted with air suspension, including Volvos



Some MBA who specialised in Marketing would've searched for a catchy phrase to lure bus owners. And the result is this "True bus chassis".[/quote]


The suspension is just one part of the Luxury Bus Segment - The Monocoque body,Enhanced Driver Ergonomics all must be factored in for a Bus Chassis , probably that's where the Volvo bus scored a point.
Well may be it will end up a TBC like BRICS some day .

Last edited by ssdubai : 25th April 2012 at 14:01. Reason: Quoting Error
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Old 25th April 2012, 19:05   #143
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Originally Posted by ssdubai View Post
...
The suspension is just one part of the Luxury Bus Segment - The Monocoque body,Enhanced Driver Ergonomics all must be factored in for a Bus Chassis , probably that's where the Volvo bus scored a point.
Well may be it will end up a TBC like BRICS some day .
As such Volvo is not a Monocoque its again built on ladder frame only, with a luggage compartment. Even if built on Monocoque platform it need not have a better suspension compared to ladder frame ones.
Kindly recall Innova is built on a ladder frame and I need not elaborate much on its handling and suspension.

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
..
FYI, before Volvo started its operations as a bus maker in India, there were many inter-city buses. I can recollect Akbar travels, Supaa, No.1 Air etc. They were using AshLey chassis with air suspension. I doubt if they were the 12M chassis, and I've even heard people say that they were built on truck chassis. Ride was not so bad. I'd once visited Mahabalipuram and a few other places as a one-day sightseeing trip, in a tourist bus, sometime in 2001. IIRC, the operator's name was Geethalayam (and the bus had some KA-xxx-1111 registration). The ride was good, despite being an oldschool leyland. Back-breaking buses were there, but AL and TM did have comfortable buses too.
All they were Viking only. In fact Suppa still uses only Viking with iT09 coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
..This "True Bus Chassis" is only hogwash, just like some toothpaste brand comparing itself with an "ordinary" toothpaste.

I find the air suspension in newer buses more stiff, compared to some of the old 'Air Bus'es. I've read that these days they make the bellows with harder materials to increase their lifespan by compromising ride quality. This is true for all buses fitted with air suspension, including Volvos

Some MBA who specialised in Marketing would've searched for a catchy phrase to lure bus owners. And the result is this "True bus chassis".
The use of truck chassis for building bus - its to be read as same chassis with same suspension and same stiffness, was obsoleted some 25 years back atleast. COmet was the chassis from Leyland which was used for both bus and chassis. After the Viking platform was enlarged - with different wheel base, power train options and improved spring stiffness (with less number of leafs as well), the era of bus on truck chassis changed completely.
This is the truth in Indian bus industry.

Later advancements have come in leaf spring itself, termed as Weveller or rubber ended leaf. This shift was great as there were a good difference in ride quality. Then the paradigm shift was to air suspension. But even after this its still termed as Truck chassis.
Actually its the other way around. For several white goods applications like scooter carrier, egg and chicken carrier bus chassis is used, as they offer fairly better suspension leading to reduced transit damage.
So its no surprise that tomorrow some body comes and tells, we are offering true truck chassis with right aggregates and proper suspension as against the
bus chassis which is used in India so long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
+1. IIRC, KPN introduced airsuspensions on their TVS build buses (rear only) in the late 90s when rest of India was moving the so called hi-tech bus bodies with regular suspension. These KPN buses as "Pneu-Ride" and *brake boosters/ABS - can't recollect exactly" stickers on their rear glass. ....
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Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth View Post
These Air buses came in around 1995-96. I remember in one of the articles in Ananda Vikatan K P Natarajan claimed that they would be able to take the bus from Trichy to Madurai with a bowl of water open and not a drop would spill out, though a touch exagarated there but was true in terms of the ride quality. .
Yes, KPN was the pioneer in introducing newer technologies. They were the first to use the term AIR BUS( as early as mid 90's), big and bold indicating that they are with air suspension. Later this became the norm of the Intercity transportation.
Now they have converted all their buses to 100% air (both front and rear), in-spite of the fact that, it costs ~1.5 lks for each axle. They use a little stiffer springs compared to regular ones.

Apart from this they are now trying Automatic transmissions in their buses, purely to reduce the driver fatigue. They get a mileage penalty of min 15%, but still they are increasing the Automatic fleet size only. Total fleet size as of now is ~ 10 (Including Leymatic and Allission ) and they are likely to induct Volvo i shift in near future for 4 coaches.

Last edited by Ashley2 : 25th April 2012 at 19:07.
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Old 1st July 2012, 19:37   #144
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Default Re: Intercity Bus travel reviews

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
But why this terminology of "True bus chassis"?
Volvo used this term to call their buses are from true bus chassis by giving a wrong perception on other manufacturers, as if they are using truck chassis for bus application.
Its only in India to criticise AL and TM, these phrases are used I guess.
I too think this was a clever piece of marketing talk created by Volvo India to make the Indian players look primitive and substandard. Equally competent players like Scania and MAN supply front engined buses to african countries and the Japanese makers such as Nissan and Hino supply FE buses to Asian countries!
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Old 6th July 2012, 17:42   #145
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Default Re: How Volvo changed the way we look at buses and bus travel

Looks the Volvo multi axle long distance cruisers are now coming in automatic variants too. Just spotted two of them bought by SVR Travels in Bangalore which had Automatic written all over their boot.

Business Line : Companies News : Volvo gears up India biz with auto transmission bus

While this would reduce fatigue and increase driving pleasure, hope it wont become a pain on the roads by rash drivers.
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Old 8th July 2012, 17:06   #146
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Default Re: How Volvo changed the way we look at buses and bus travel

Here is a link showing an Ashok Leyland "Leopard" coach brochure. This bus had most of the features that premium players today claim to have introduced here in India. This is just for awareness that, "true buses" were there in India from early 90's. But our home grown giants made this attempt too early when neither roads nor Industry/market demanded them.

ASHOK LEYLAND 1991 BUS COACH SALES BROCHURE LEOPARD TITAN VIKING CHITAL PANTHER | eBay
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Old 16th July 2012, 00:29   #147
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Originally Posted by Transsenger
Here is a link showing an Ashok Leyland "Leopard" coach brochure. This bus had most of the features that premium players today claim to have introduced here in India. This is just for awareness that, "true buses" were there in India from early 90's. But our home grown giants made this attempt too early when neither roads nor Industry/market demanded them.

ASHOK LEYLAND 1991 BUS COACH SALES BROCHURE LEOPARD TITAN VIKING CHITAL PANTHER | eBay
The link goes to e-bay where they might have note posted
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Old 5th August 2012, 00:14   #148
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I too think this was a clever piece of marketing talk created by Volvo India to make the Indian players look primitive and substandard. Equally competent players like Scania and MAN supply front engined buses to african countries and the Japanese makers such as Nissan and Hino supply FE buses to Asian countries!
Attached is a pic of a Front Engined Chassis being sold by Mercedes Benz !. Heres a link to a you tube video showing one such Chassis the OF 1730.
see from 2:24 onwards.

Another video of a fully built front engined City bus of Mercedes.


Front Engined buses are not primitive. They are still contemporary.

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Old 5th August 2012, 10:43   #149
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Default Re: How Volvo changed the way we look at buses and bus travel

Nice piece of info. In India and India alike countries, FE buses are unlikely to be phased out in near future. That's for the simple reason they are more user friendly and reduced maintenance. If you take the African continent, except very few markets and applications, front engine buses are preferred. Man has a Multi axle chassis based on FE Explorer platform there. I think Scania is selling its F series chassis which are again FE models.

Now coming to Indian context, FE buses are predominant in regular application. In case of Intercity transportation rear engine coaches are getting popular. The only available nearest competitor is AL - 12M 225 CRS (I am not considering other models or LPO 1618 due to reduced power).
As Man Airobus is due for launch, which is almost spec to spec matching to 12M 225 CRS, the market for FE buses are likely to grow. And if there are products with higher power train options available it will be interesting to look in.

And not to forget, Bharat Benz is also planning for FE buses.

But still we could see comments like "The bus was relatively faster and comfortable for a truck chassis"
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Old 5th August 2012, 18:28   #150
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Another video of a fully built front engined City bus of Mercedes.
I probabaly put a wrong link. The same video has appeared twice. Here is the updated link



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