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Old 28th May 2010, 09:57   #31
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Originally Posted by santoshnair View Post
even TM is procurring chasis and parts like tyres from across the world including china...in the world of globalisation these r normal...when AL introduced home grown LF RE way back in early 90s nobody took it up for whtever reasons...the moment u have a foreign hand every one buys it...so i guess thats the strategy going ahead keep a gora in the company and the company looksnice
Tata was not alone in procuring Tyres but no longer are they allowed to import these, a Government ban to protect the local industry is in place which does no good to the Tyre Industry as they're unable to meet the demands of the OE market. I've seen Tata's Marcopolo buses with Benchmark Tyres, which as per my knowledge are from the same group as Ling Long Tyres.

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Let us not forget that Tata Motors derives its current technologies from Cummins, Daewoo and Hispano. Smart procurement policies today are key to cost-cutting and Chinese companies offer components at significantly lower prices vis-a-vis Indian ancillary sector
HVK, I wish to add Marcopolo S.A. to the list.
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Old 28th May 2010, 10:48   #32
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Originally Posted by santoshnair View Post
even TM is procurring chasis and parts like tyres from across the world including china...in the world of globalisation these r normal...when AL introduced home grown LF RE way back in early 90s nobody took it up for whtever reasons...the moment u have a foreign hand every one buys it...so i guess thats the strategy going ahead keep a gora in the company and the company looksnice
In the AL low floor case, not only the chasis, engine, transmission and body panels, every thing sourced from outside. I mentioned just "chasis", because it is sourced from "China". We indian engineering should be ashamed of this of this, but it does not matter to the parent company of AL.
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Let us not forget that Tata Motors derives its current technologies from Cummins, Daewoo and Hispano. Smart procurement policies today are key to cost-cutting and Chinese companies offer components at significantly lower prices vis-a-vis Indian ancillary sector
Totally agree, In case of Cummins and Marcopolo, it is technology transfer (JV), Daewoo and Hispano are 100% subsidiaries of TM. You cannot comapre these with ALs agreement with Beiqi Foton Motor Co. Ltd.
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Old 28th May 2010, 18:21   #33
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Leyland wins hands down.In Kerala, KSRTC buys buys AL and Tata bus chassis in 2:1 proportion. The drivers invariably prefer Leyland due to its srong low end torque and driveability and in the ghat sections in Kerala, the KSRTC depots have only ALs. Offcourse Tata scores in refinement but as far as buses are concerned low maintenance cost and greater reliability takes the front seat. But in the truck sector, the most popular vehicle here is Tata semi forward trucks due to their lightweight and low initial cost.
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Old 28th May 2010, 19:30   #34
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I do not know much about BEST in Bombay but had traveled in one of their old fleet of rear engined automatic transmission Ashok Leyland Air Condditioned Buses and I was stunned. It was quiet, Full Air Suspension (Front & Rear) excellent refinement after all the abuse and had superb acceleration. I later discovered they used ZF Automatic Transmission and boy were they good. Makes me wonder why it never was a hit, probably due to cost during the time it was launched but they should re launch this bus.

Leylands simply rule in and around Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu. They are a lot slower to accelerate but once speed is built no TATA can come close.

I also feel the braking is far superior than a TATA and they had developed an Full Air Brake system much earlier.

Leyland had a proper bus to offer to the customer much before TATA. In the sense that their buses used proper suspension struts along with the usual leaf springs. Comfort has always been better with Leyland which is probably why it is the preferred choice down south for long haul operations.
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Old 28th May 2010, 19:38   #35
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Al is also the preferred brand in most STUs in India - check out AP, MP, GJ, RJ, HR, PB, etc.
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Old 28th May 2010, 20:03   #36
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
.

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It is in places like HP, UK, JK and almost the entire North East that AL has no presence at all. Even in Kolkata/WB, I noticed several AL buses in the city service and most of the long-distance buses are AL.
I beg to differ with you HVK sir . I agree Previously it was Tata who were preferred in hills But not any more. Being from Himachal my self and having stayed in j & K for good 7 years, things are changing pretty fast now. I usually travel in these bussed from delhi to my home town and it's Ashoka leyland , Sole king in hills. myself have seen AL buses , over taking TATA buses in a Breeze In hills and with recent additions like power steering and turbo additions to these Buses they are easy to drive as well . Off course , when it comes to Plain Highways TATA's Are the king .. IMO, AL are Best for HILLS and TATA's for Plain's . Another reason why Almost whole of Haryana roadways fleet belongs to TATA's , but here also , Maximum Haryana roadways buses plying to himachal are Ashok leyland , not TATA

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 28th May 2010 at 20:05. Reason: Added info
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Old 28th May 2010, 21:24   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I do not know much about BEST in Bombay but had traveled in one of their old fleet of rear engined automatic transmission Ashok Leyland Air Condditioned Buses and I was stunned. It was quiet, Full Air Suspension (Front & Rear) excellent refinement after all the abuse and had superb acceleration. I later discovered they used ZF Automatic Transmission and boy were they good. Makes me wonder why it never was a hit, probably due to cost during the time it was launched but they should re launch this bus.
Although not sure, I remember reading somewhere that the bus you've mentioned was actually gifted by Leyland to BEST - Free of cost! BEST was a Leyland Bastion at that time, and TATA had been trying badly to get hold of its pie - things took a turn with the management in BEST changing (something similar had happened with MSRTC as well).

This is the bus that you've described - its a Leyland Panther.

Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only-p1300270.jpg

Though I've never traveled on this bus, I remember speaking to a couple of passengers who traveled in this bus - this was the best of the lot of buses those days - the others were all front engined Leylands with conventional leaf-spring suspension, and a horrible airconditioner - this one had good AC and all round Air-suspension. This bus had easily overtaken a fully loaded bus (that I was traveling in) on an upgradient (near Powai).

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Leylands simply rule in and around Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu. They are a lot slower to accelerate but once speed is built no TATA can come close.
Things have changed a lot for Leyland - they are no more slow to accelerate as well. Have seen new Leylands blasting off right from start - they hit 60s in no time (sadly new Leylands in KeSRTC is locked at 60kmph for the first few months - run-in perhaps!). Overtaking Leyland buses is often a job in itself on the highways, these days
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Old 28th May 2010, 22:43   #38
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Saw this topic late.

@Thread creater - There is NO COMPARISON betweem TATA and AL at all.

AL is an infant in front of TATA.

@All - Whoever thinks AL has a comparative market that TATA.. you must be kidding me.

Last edited by Ranjan Sharma : 28th May 2010 at 22:46.
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Old 28th May 2010, 23:03   #39
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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
Saw this topic late.

@Thread creater - There is NO COMPARISON betweem TATA and AL at all.

AL is an infant in front of TATA.

@All - Whoever thinks AL has a comparative market that TATA.. you must be kidding me.

??- pls elaborate - are you referring to market share ? if so, this discussion is not about that.
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Old 29th May 2010, 10:08   #40
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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
Saw this topic late.

@Thread creater - There is NO COMPARISON betweem TATA and AL at all.

AL is an infant in front of TATA.

@All - Whoever thinks AL has a comparative market that TATA.. you must be kidding me.
you need to provide reasons mate. such blank statements serve no purpose!

i am a newbie & slowly learning about the HCV/LCV market. one thing i have noticed is that AL is the more 'respected' brand around, due to various reasons. tata is considered just because its spares & initial cost is cheaper.

there have been more than one tour operators/bus owners who have told me that they will never buy a tata bus, it would always be AL for them. guess, they have their reasons.
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Old 29th May 2010, 10:30   #41
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I will surely elaborate more. For now, pasting this simple "internet search" graph below.

Blank statements is
Quote:
one thing i have noticed is that AL is the more 'respected' brand around, due to various reasons. tata is considered just because its spares & initial cost is cheaper.
I will get back with the real facts and figures soon. My dad works in TATA Motors (Jamshedpur) and will get all the detailed info from him too.

I have seen these 300/day trucks being built/assembled in front of my eyes. Trust me guys, AL is still only the "madarassi" company in all comparisons with TATA.

With production of world trucks, TATA has set a landmark now. If you count step by step, TATA is probably on the 10th floor, and AL still not even on the first.

Here is what can state about "Respect" you call.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Ranjan Sharma : 29th May 2010 at 10:42.
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Old 29th May 2010, 11:42   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
I will surely elaborate more. For now, pasting this simple "internet search" graph below.

Blank statements is

I will get back with the real facts and figures soon. My dad works in TATA Motors (Jamshedpur) and will get all the detailed info from him too.

I have seen these 300/day trucks being built/assembled in front of my eyes. Trust me guys, AL is still only the "madarassi" company in all comparisons with TATA.

With production of world trucks, TATA has set a landmark now. If you count step by step, TATA is probably on the 10th floor, and AL still not even on the first.

Here is what can state about "Respect" you call.
Sharma ji, From when, did the stock market prices has started to decide the company's standing in a end users eyes . IMO, all fleet operators never bother about stock market price before placing a order for truck or bus . Moreover , your graphs are taken from a suspected source ( REDIFF) . Offcourse, Tata's are a big industrial house , with big revenue and Even more global foot print, but remember, they also started off by collaborating with merceddes in initial days . if u compare TATA's with AL, than that's not eqaulity , compare tata's with hinduja's than , AL 's parent company . Moreover i am unable to understand the use of "MADRASI COMPANY" ...aren't we all living in same country and both companies doing their bit for indians ..what if one is in south and other in north .. ...offcourse both cannot operate from same place .

If you are still interested on stock market , Just check the values of "Last Divident and Return on average equity" in above graphs , Some thing, which matters most to a investor ..

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 29th May 2010 at 11:46.
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Old 29th May 2010, 12:10   #43
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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Sharma ji, From when, did the stock market p
.
.
.
investor ..
Kumarji, By "Madrasi company" I meant, it dominates the South part of India and what's so offending in calling it 'madarasi'? Don't you refer various car manufacturers as 'German', 'Japanese' etc etc?

Regarding placing order of trucks and busses - Do you know how many are manufactured in a day in both the companies? If you did, you won't even talk about it..!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Offcourse, Tata's are a big industrial house , with big revenue and Even more global foot print, but remember, they also started off by collaborating with merceddes in initial days . if u compare TATA's with AL, than that's not eqaulity , compare tata's with hinduja's than , AL 's parent company
Dude, the comparison is between Tata MOTORS and AL. I have posted the results to show "Face Value", not other stuff (they are just a part of results).Please read my post clearly, I have already stated that the results are found from a simple "internet search". It surely is from Rediff, doesn't need james bond to find out that.

Last edited by Ranjan Sharma : 29th May 2010 at 12:16.
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Old 29th May 2010, 12:21   #44
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Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma View Post
By "Madrasi company" I meant, it dominates the South part of India and what's so offending in calling it 'madarasi'? Don't you refer various car manufacturers as 'German', 'Japanese' etc etc?

Not the case any more , that was about 5-6 years back . I find More ashok leyland Buses these days in north , As for "madrasi", i find it objectionable .... with japanese , koreans , u r associating a person with his country not his ethinicity,

I have posted the screenshot for one reason which is "Face Value" and market also,not to stock market prices (it is just a part of the results).
Please read my post clearly, I have already stated that the results are found from a simple "internet search". It surely is from Rediff, doesn't need james bond to find out that.

Off course Google is the real James Bond these days .. Coming to face Value, Off course TATA will rule as they are more diversified globally ,
IMO , but i still maintain , a investor is concerned more about ROI than face value ..

Regarding placing order of trucks and busses - Do you know how many are manufactured in a day in both the companies? If you did, you won't even talk about it..!!!

Hardly Matters , u never get quality with quantity ...at same time and anyways what that has to do with the discussion here , we are not discussing Sales IMO
Pls see my comments in bold
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Old 29th May 2010, 12:41   #45
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Performance,operating terrain, Fuel Efficiency, Reliability, NVH, Price, After sales support, Resale...the list is long.


Face value of a share goes down when you split it. It doesn't have anything to do with market value of the share.

The total sales as shown in the chart above for Tata Motors includes passenger vehicle segment as well. Right?
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