Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th May 2012, 12:32   #61
BHPian
 
ajman28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 277
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Ashley - that was a long post indeed (and I must say one of the longest I have come across from your end ), but very well put.

The one good point I find in the case of BB is that they have decided to enter the market alone. So, success or failure, the final responsibility lies with them (unlike MAN & Navistar).

Many of us who get the news of market impact from various media do not realise the actual scenario in the field. We talk about Volvo redefining the bus segment, but do we realise that Volvo buses constitute for less than 10% of the total bus sales in the country (to be more precise I think it is in the range of 5% or so, not sure about the exact number)?

TML & AL have definitely upped the ante over the years and they have done it in a very cost efficient way. The PRIMA and the U-Trucks are good examples. I had the opportunity to check out the PRIMA and quite fankly was blown away by the quality levels. I never expected an Indian manufactured truck to have such high standards.

It's a good thing that we have international competition. It will make it easier for the Indian companies to develop better products and maybe start exporting them and create a global impact! Once you learn how to win a match at home, it becomes easier to adapt when you play away

The Germans have planned the invasion and have made their first attack. One can scratch and wound an elephant, but to reach their level or to bring them down is a different ball game all together. And here we have two elephants with aggressive heads!

Anyway, it's GAME ON!

Last edited by ajman28 : 12th May 2012 at 12:33.
ajman28 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2012, 12:58   #62
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,610
Thanked: 1,223 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Excellent post Ashley2.

I would like to point out the 'IF' in the below line. It is the difference between being proactive and responsive. ALL and TATA seem to be responsive in nature rather than proactive. Isn't it apparent that to get better products from the home giants their territory needs to be invaded by global giants?

"Over and above 'IF' BB comes with extremely high FE and great value for their trucks, there will a faster shift towards them. But this is likely to bounce back towards TM/AL IF they replies with the same answer - equivalent FE / higher reliable products."

Need to think on the below points:
  1. What would ALL and TATA be selling now and in the near future if there was no MAN, Volvo, Mahindra Navistar etc.?
  2. The global majors might have failed on their sales targets but didn't they force/speeden the change at ALL and TATA?
  3. With the entry of BB, things are going to get even better for all the consumers in the value chain. Whether it is going to be from ALL, TATA or the Global players is truly immaterial. E.g. People expected Maruti to fall apart after the entry of new entrants. Today the same Maruti is offering fantastic products and there's space for all. Please welcome competition. Period.
  4. MB isn't able to crack Volvo's hold on the inter city bus luxury segment. If this is held as a negative point for BB, then please add that for ALL and TATA as well. Where is the response from the Indian giants? For all the goodwill TATA and ALL have, will they every be sell a bus at 1 Crore?
kiku007 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2012, 13:08   #63
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 466
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

@ Ashley - I guess the only intent here is fruitful discussion
In the luxury bus segment the product that offers the best value for operators continues to find favour. A large part of Volvos success can be attributed to the intent & ability of the organization to read the Indian market + educate the same market in parallel during the phase when they were establishing the brand and its products (Long distance & city buses).

The established players were selling products that met all customer expectations (Air-suspension \ AC \ reclining seat long distance buses built around a pretty standard chassis and power train). However there was only limited effort on the part of the OEs to raise the bar. More often than not it was the larger bus operators that created the pull for improved features and performance.

The new kid on the block redefined customer expectations. This niche segment can become a volume generator in 3-6 years in the backdrop of improving infrastructure, dwindling standards of the railways & an increase in passenger traffic.

If I were to sum up Volvos success in the segment being discussed -
-The products offer the best VFM although they seldom (never?) were the best priced.
- Pride of ownership for the Operators with a customer base willingness to pay a premium for the attributes of the Brand \ product.
The Volvo brand was strong enough to created a new segment in the mind of the customers i.e 'The Volvo bus segment' - which to the common travelling public is a long distance bus \ City bus thats fast, comfortable and has that elusive feel good factor.
- The brand meets Base expectations - Warranty, reliability, service & maintenance requirments, operating costs & long term commitment to the market.

Sorry for meandering off topic but perhaps the luxury bus story is a lesson learnt for Daimler which it will incorporate into its future strategies in India.

Coming back to the topic of the thread its probable that DICVs offerings will be able to provide features \ performance parameters that represent value to truck customers. Although TML & AL have been at it for years it would be naive to conclude that there is only limited room for improvement even with the constraints in the market.

As mentioned in earlier posts aspects such as ergonomics and driver comfort could increasingly influence buying decisions in a scenario where supply falls short of demand for truck drivers. TML and AL can hardly claim to be the benchmark for ergonomics. Sure the New generation cabs are not bad but the high runners are still very basic when it comes to driver comfort. This is just one of those 'change' scenarios that I keep referring to.
Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2012, 16:55   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
TheARUN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,272
Thanked: 492 Times
Default

Awesome post Ashley, not for nothing are you a Distinguished BHPian with just 1000 odd posts. Great job, wanted to thank you for the awesome coverage of AutoExpo, also pressed the Thank you button!

Coming back to topic, TATA and AL need a kick to get them started

Should BHARATBENZ have gone for Busses instead of Lorries? I know MERCEDES BENZ is there in the Bus Market, but they don't have the USPs of BB
TheARUN is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2012, 23:55   #65
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
....
Need to think on the below points:
  1. What would ALL and TATA be selling now and in the near future if there was no MAN, Volvo, Mahindra Navistar etc.?
  2. The global majors might have failed on their sales targets but didn't they force/speeden the change at ALL and TATA?
  3. With the entry of BB, things are going to get even better for all the consumers in the value chain. Whether it is going to be from ALL, TATA or the Global players is truly immaterial. E.g. People expected Maruti to fall apart after the entry of new entrants. Today the same Maruti is offering fantastic products and there's space for all. Please welcome competition. Period.
  4. MB isn't able to crack Volvo's hold on the inter city bus luxury segment. If this is held as a negative point for BB, then please add that for ALL and TATA as well. Where is the response from the Indian giants? For all the goodwill TATA and ALL have, will they every be sell a bus at 1 Crore?
Great! I agree with all your points. Yes if there was no competition Prima will be still some times away.
For your last question, I am pretty sure even if they buy a Volvo bus and re badge they may not be able to price it 1 crore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed View Post
...... Sure the New generation cabs are not bad but the high runners are still very basic when it comes to driver comfort. This is just one of those 'change' scenarios that I keep referring to.
But they are not pushing high runners into market and they are pulled away. That's the reason MNAL/AMW started offering cowl chassis. BB may also offer in near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
...
Coming back to topic, TATA and AL need a kick to get them started

Should BHARATBENZ have gone for Busses instead of Lorries? I know MERCEDES BENZ is there in the Bus Market, but they don't have the USPs of BB
The kick is definitively there and it's going to still hard. But will they give back or keep getting is the question.
BB is also looking to enter front engine bus segment in near future. But what USP BB has over MB?
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2012, 16:44   #66
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: ATL<-->BLR
Posts: 141
Thanked: 36 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Thanks Ashley for bringing this thread back to life. A fantastic discussion going on here. Here's my take.

1. Things with Daimler are a little different when compared to the other new entrants like Mahindra Navistar, MAN, AMW, Volvo trucks, etc. for one basic factor - their own growth.

Global manufacturers go local in cost-wary India | Reuters

"The potential is huge. Truck sales alone grew 18 percent in the year to March 2012 to over 800,000 vehicles, and are expected to double to 1.6 million by 2017. This eclipses the United States, where just over 300,000 commercial trucks were sold in 2011"

Daimler's home market is suffering from recession/over-capacity, China has rules mandating local JVs and the American market has load of competition (inspite of FreightLiner). So Daimler has not much choice but to get into India in a big way. They have invested an amount which is not very high by looking at the Daimler group. Hence they will be playing it out as though they have nothing to lose.


2. They seem to have a concentrated initial strategy planned out like tapping the GQ truck route first, 2 hour breakdown response, etc. Had put some of these in my earlier post #42. So BB will be concentrating pretty much ONLY on the getting their trucks initially on the 'good' roads. They need to convince potential buyers of significant time & fuel reduction of BB trucks against competition on these routes. There are definitely a lot of potential customers looking for faster cargo transport at-least on these good roads (ex:- overnight shipping, movers & packers, etc.). These customers will in turn pass on the additional cost to their client/end customers.
For ex:- The Bangalore - Mumbai Volvo takes ~18 hours by road. Not sure how much time the current trucks take.


3. Did read up that TML dealers have been warned earlier about taking on BB dealerships. This FE article show a very interesting BB dealer strategy. It mentions that one of their dealers is a fleet owner. If the dealer himself gets a few trucks going for sometime, then the word of mouth will take over.

Daimler aims to wow truckers at roadside dhabas with BharatBenz

"All the automotive OEMs need to give the transport industry their due which had not been happening, says Ghatge. He will be the dealer for Bharat Benz in Pune, Kolhapur, Solapur and Dhule.

Ghatge is also a fleet owner (part of the Ghatge Patil Transport of Kolhapur, which owns close to 400 truck) and buys around 40 to 50 trucks a year to replenish the old stock. The company has already tried out the Hino Trucks from Toyota and will be looking at Bharat Benz, too, for upgrading their fleet. "


4. The comparison with the car industry is pretty inevitable. Yes, Maruti was the leader in the 90s and still is the leader now. But today they are on their toes with their market share shrinking. Of course they are selling in more #s comparatively because the market has expanded. The competition is good and is only going to get fierce with Eon, Nano & Datsun directly targeting Maruti's bread & butter segment.

Competition is something that brings out the best in everyone. Hopefully TML & ALL will do all they can to guard their turf.

Last edited by andromeda : 13th May 2012 at 16:51.
andromeda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2012, 21:48   #67
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda View Post
...
Daimler's home market is suffering from recession/over-capacity, China has rules mandating local JVs and the American market has load of competition (inspite of FreightLiner). So Daimler has not much choice but to get into India in a big way. They have invested an amount which is not very high by looking at the Daimler group. Hence they will be playing it out as though they have nothing to lose.
Yes, that's the prime reason to come up with India specific brand. Also their mistakes when launching Mercedes Benz brand of CV in India is also been taken care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda View Post
...2. They seem to have a concentrated initial strategy planned out like tapping the GQ truck route first, 2 hour breakdown response, etc. Had put some of these in my earlier post #42. So BB will be concentrating pretty much ONLY on the getting their trucks initially on the 'good' roads. They need to convince potential buyers of significant time & fuel reduction of BB trucks against competition on these routes. There are definitely a lot of potential customers looking for faster cargo transport at-least on these good roads (ex:- overnight shipping, movers & packers, etc.). These customers will in turn pass on the additional cost to their client/end customers.
For ex:- The Bangalore - Mumbai Volvo takes ~18 hours by road. Not sure how much time the current trucks take.
The concept of offering service attention in less than 2 hrs is becoming more of hygiene factor now. This was initiated by AL few years back(Infact it offers a promise of restoring vehicle in 48 hrs and if not Rs.1000/day will be paid by company) followed by TM and now leveraged by BB..

Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda View Post
...3. Did read up that TML dealers have been warned earlier about taking on BB dealerships. This FE article show a very interesting BB dealer strategy. It mentions that one of their dealers is a fleet owner. If the dealer himself gets a few trucks going for sometime, then the word of mouth will take over.
This is also seen in the past. In TN Gounder and Company(part of ABT group) is a big TM dealer in TN. But they choose AL 12M for Intercity operation.

ARC is a Eicher dealer in Covai, but they have a mixed fleet of Eicher and AL with buses only with AL.

KPN is a dealer for Eicher in Trichy. But till now they have not inducted even one bus.

Means until the products meets the requirements it will not be sold as a word of mouth - infact at times will be opposite - he is a dealer and even he is not using.
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2012, 01:13   #68
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 466
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Central to this discussion is the Pull Vs Push question. Not in terms of the classical marketing definitions but addressing important components in the customer experience as either 'the customer is fine with this' Vs 'we can improve this element at a marginal cost to add value'. The reality check being what the market can accept.

While this may be an oversimplification of the scenario of BharatBenz Vs the existing Market leaders, it is a valid question from a marketing \ product development perspective.

While TML and AL have been up to the challenge of addressing the needs of the transportation sector through the dark ages of the license raj and the transitional 90’s to the open market situation we currently have, I must add that there continues to be an element of complacency with regards to continuous improvement . There have been improvements in design, emissions & performance but more often than not these have been driven by legislation or competition. Even if one considers market constraints such as cost sensitivity and the ‘chalta hai’ attitude among consumers in the areas of comfort, ergonomics, emissions and safety.

It takes either legislation or competition to get the cogs moving in the direction of improvement. Even with a cowl cab improvements to ergonomics & safety can be an ongoing process. For instance - It shouldn't have taken legislation to add a crash barrier at the rear end to prevent grievous injuries to occupants of cars that crash into a trucks rear end.

Like many in this forum I want to see AL & TML take on International competition in India by means of improved designs, processes, products and services. But certainly not by banking on the inertia of Consumers OR on products\services of new entrants under-performing.
Zed is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2012, 18:56   #69
BHPian
 
ajman28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 277
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda

3. Did read up that TML dealers have been warned earlier about taking on BB dealerships. This FE article show a very interesting BB dealer strategy. It mentions that one of their dealers is a fleet owner. If the dealer himself gets a few trucks going for sometime, then the word of mouth will...
Even in Chennai I think they are following a similar strategy. Parveen travels is the dealer for these parts. They are one of the largest fleet owners down south.

Last edited by ajman28 : 14th May 2012 at 18:57.
ajman28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 11:38   #70
BHPian
 
turbospooler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 185
Thanked: 255 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

No offence but I don't see the onslaught anywhere at all (maybe speaking a little early )
1000+ trucks sold since Sept 12 till Dec 12 shows 350 trucks movement per month. A dealership tally of about 30 means 12 trucks sold by individual dealership.
Taking into account the captive trucks of few dealers the number sold by other dealers reaches abysmally low per month movement.
This may be one of the reasons for the inability for ramping up the new dealerships as dealers don't see value in investing right now with them.
In fact, a sensible dealer will see that if the truck company is offering 5 years engine warranty and longer servicing intervals, his business (which by the way is more dependant on servicing than selling) will only start after the warranty has been exhausted. Hence he will invest significantly and ROI will be only after 3-4 years and that too is subjected to the initial feedback of the trucks. No wonder BB will face hurdles.
On the customer side, the initial cost of ownership is the biggest detriment. Combined with a pathetic economic environment is leading to sluggish movement of cargo at rock bottom rates. Hence no purchasing of trucks whose reliability and performance are not yet known.
Lets see if the magic is created in the Light Duty trucks which they launched in February.
turbospooler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 18:04   #71
BHPian
 
SAE40 in veins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 219
Thanked: 149 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Has anybody (among fleet owners) really verified the claims by Bharat Benz especially the ones on fuel efficiency? A difference of 10% in fuel efficiency actually may be possible on a certain stretch between different competing brands but that cannot be extrapolated for the whole country.

Between two vehicles, the ghat efficiency of one might be more while the other may be more fuel efficient on plains. So its more of one's driving cycle and more specifically the route which decides whether Brand X is more efficient than Y. BB dosn't seem to clearly spell out where they have this advantage. If it is a combined cycle, they should spell out the percentage of city, ghats, highways etc in the cycle.

When over 60% of the expenses of a truck go towards the fuel, if the 10% extra fuel efficiency as claimed by BB ought to be true for all routes/ cycles, then i think the market would have shifted enmasse to BB which actually has not happened despite some good introductory pricing.

As somebody else said in this forum. The game has begun, lets wait and watch.
SAE40 in veins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 19:47   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
binaiks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KL-47 // KA-51
Posts: 1,726
Thanked: 823 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Has anybody (among fleet owners) really verified the claims by Bharat Benz especially the ones on fuel efficiency? A difference of 10% in fuel efficiency actually may be possible on a certain stretch between different competing brands but that cannot be extrapolated for the whole country.
A friend recently said that one of his clients has got a few BB 25-tonners, which he uses for transporting milk (tankers). They are reportedly returning mileage in the range of 6~6.5kmpl! I am not sure of the accuracy of the claim.
binaiks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2013, 22:34   #73
BHPian
 
Autokrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 66
Thanked: 28 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by binaiks View Post
A friend recently said that one of his clients has got a few BB 25-tonners, which he uses for transporting milk (tankers). They are reportedly returning mileage in the range of 6~6.5kmpl! I am not sure of the accuracy of the claim.
It is not surprising considering that typically milk tankers operate one way empty.
Autokrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2013, 22:41   #74
BHPian
 
Autokrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 66
Thanked: 28 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
Has anybody (among fleet owners) really verified the claims by Bharat Benz especially the ones on fuel efficiency?

As somebody else said in this forum. The game has begun, lets wait and watch.
From some of my sources I heard the mileage on regular haulage ( both ways loaded) is not in anyway significantly better as claimed. They also seem to have had a few engine failures.
Autokrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd April 2013, 15:34   #75
BHPian
 
SAE40 in veins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 219
Thanked: 149 Times
Default Re: Forbes : The German Invasion of The Indian Trucking Sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autokrat View Post
From some of my sources I heard the mileage on regular haulage ( both ways loaded) is not in anyway significantly better as claimed. They also seem to have had a few engine failures.
Anyways the 6.4 liter engine is not directly made by BB in India. AFAIK It is assembled by Avtec in Pithampur with a lot of locally sourced parts going in. It may not be prudent to expect 'Actros' reliability in the BB offerings. It is made in India by Indians, for Indians.
SAE40 in veins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BMW Motorrad’s Indian invasion - Full range of bikes coming! vin_b Motorbikes 17 15th September 2016 14:10
Queries / Guide / FAQ - Starting a Trucking Business hell_rider Commercial Vehicles 15 28th March 2012 12:17
Invasion of the Swedes DocG In-Car Entertainment 49 27th May 2010 01:12
A Trucking Enthusiast ! shaikhmimran Introduce yourself 19 17th July 2008 22:26
The American diesel invasion tsk1979 The International Automotive Scene 21 13th February 2007 16:11


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:47.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks