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Old 22nd April 2013, 13:31   #181
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

Hello.

Sincere Thanx Sir V1kram & Ashley2. I am indebted. For clearing my doubts. Yes, you are right. They are TML. 1512 & 1612 and not 1520 or 1620.

Another very Stupid Question, a very weird one. With my background from Architecture and Civil Engineering, I couldn't stop from asking JCBL / SUTLEJ /HNN / HMM ; the various body builders in the north.

1. Would it be wise to put a Heavy wooden section above the Steel Chassis. In between the two, a 25mm thick Neoprene pad to be put as a damping pad. Similarly Cross Members to have a neoprene pad and then the wooden planks on top of them.

2. The second thing is to fill the void of the Main C section of the Chassis with Hard Wood encased with high density foam ( for expansion and flex). This will make the chassis Stiffer and less prone to bending and metal fatigue, and can take much more abuse ( because of horrible road conditions in Bengal / Eastern state's highways.

Will it cause the desired effect. as TML CHASSIS ARE PRONE to bending and quicker metal fatigue.

Also this tendency of cutting a chassis from the back, by different body builders ( either due to reduced body length or put the back luggage area free of protruding chassis members.) ok. As one is advised not to drill or weld into the chassis member ( the reason being, the chassis member is heat treated steel, hence any more application of intense heat during either welding / cutting / drilling will create Stress Points.

So my question is why are they still done by the body builders authorized by the main manufacturer.

I am in the process of finalizing the body builder. I would like to share my knowledge as well as comments on the design of the buses, (Structure only) which my Dubai office as well as Jindal Steel and Power are coming up with. I have taken help from some US and UK body builders to come up with roll over cage, which will save people from serious injury during side impacts, roll over and rear collision.

Perhaps a suggestion can be given where the posts can be given, so as to receive regular feed backs from GURUS and Seniors alike, as none is coming from TML OR AL.

Cheers.

Regards

dr. sen
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Old 22nd April 2013, 15:57   #182
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
1. Would it be wise to put a Heavy wooden section above the Steel Chassis. In between the two, a 25mm thick Neoprene pad to be put as a damping pad. Similarly Cross Members to have a neoprene pad and then the wooden planks on top of them.
Though i'm not sure of the possibilty and advantage, the more you add weight, for sure mileage (tyre & fuel) and performance of the vehicle would come down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
2. The second thing is to fill the void of the Main C section of the Chassis with Hard Wood encased with high density foam ( for expansion and flex). This will make the chassis Stiffer and less prone to bending and metal fatigue, and can take much more abuse (because of horrible road conditions in Bengal / Eastern state's highways.

Will it cause the desired effect. as TML CHASSIS ARE PRONE to bending and quicker metal fatigue.

Also this tendency of cutting a chassis from the back, by different body builders ( either due to reduced body length or put the back luggage area free of protruding chassis members.) ok. As one is advised not to drill or weld into the chassis member ( the reason being, the chassis member is heat treated steel, hence any more application of intense heat during either welding / cutting / drilling will create Stress Points.
Cutting and modification of chassis is quite common even in down south and yes TML chassis is prone to bending.
I have shared few pictures in the below link (taken during my visit to body building companies), but it doesnt cover any of the additional points you have mentioned.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...acility-2.html
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Old 22nd April 2013, 16:08   #183
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
Another very Stupid Question, a very weird one. With my background from Architecture and Civil Engineering, I couldn't stop from asking JCBL / SUTLEJ /HNN / HMM ; the various body builders in the north.
Sutlej - Jalandhar, Punjab
HMM - Ambala, Haryana.
JCBL - Chandigarh.
I am not aware of HNN.

I would suggest you to consider Suraj Body builders. They are located at Jamshedpur. They make good quality bus bodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
1. Would it be wise to put a Heavy wooden section above the Steel Chassis. In between the two, a 25mm thick Neoprene pad to be put as a damping pad. Similarly Cross Members to have a neoprene pad and then the wooden planks on top of them.
I am not able to understand how are you actually planning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
2. The second thing is to fill the void of the Main C section of the Chassis with Hard Wood encased with high density foam ( for expansion and flex). This will make the chassis Stiffer and less prone to bending and metal fatigue, and can take much more abuse ( because of horrible road conditions in Bengal / Eastern state's highways.

Will it cause the desired effect. as TML CHASSIS ARE PRONE to bending and quicker metal fatigue.
I understand the Civil engineer in you, but dear kindly don't overdo anything. Let it go through the actual process of body building. Leave away the things to body builder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
Also this tendency of cutting a chassis from the back, by different body builders ( either due to reduced body length or put the back luggage area free of protruding chassis members.) ok.
Chassis is cut by body builders to make rear boot. The frame behind the rear axle is cut and a compartment is made.
Yes, this voids the warranty but still done by many.
TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-p240112_13.15_01.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. sen View Post
Perhaps a suggestion can be given where the posts can be given, so as to receive regular feed backs from GURUS and Seniors alike, as none is coming from TML OR AL.
Continue your posts here else start a new thread!
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Old 4th July 2013, 22:56   #184
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Dear BHP ians
Apologies for the delayed updates

Vehicle 1 (Moffusil application Average running 360km a day). - 92,000 review

The going has been good so far.
The vehicle initially came with an unmodified Cummins 6BT engine generating 130BHP.
There was however an acknowledged complaint of engine oil thickening (in some vehicles its so thick that it had to be flushed with vegetable oil solvents before the engine could be drained). TML offered to modify the engine to what they called the "New Recipe" and the same was carried out at CAS a TASS (Tata Authorised Service Centre) at Coimbatore. CAS was not upto the mark, in fact the vehicle was delayed a whole day as they forgot to mark the timing positions on the pump and screwed it up.
The oil gaskets too were improperly packed resulting in oil leaking from the engine and nearly causing an engine seizure.
The clutch plate was replaced at 70,000 km.
The original NGT brake shoes from TVS girling lasted a long time - approx 60,000 km under heavy braking but then they tended to wear out the drums. They were replaced with Rane shoes which were replaced at 90,000km. Softer compound at half the price but saved the drums from running out.
The crown and pinion gave way at 75,000 km (too soon) but were replaced by TML warranty. No questions asked.
The best thing so far has been the prompt response by the TATA team (big thanks to Mr. Deepak, he has untiringly been helpful in solving issues small or big. Am sure he has a bright future at Tata). I cannot say the same about the dealers though. Tata could do much better if they posted a well trained mechanic in each of their TASS stations. No use opening stations if they don't have/appoint the right personnel. One such person is Mr. Vadivel at Rajam TASS, Cbe.
One problem with the vehicle is the inconsistency with fuel consumption. Am really not sure if the problem is with the vehicle (there seems to be a problem with the nozzles) or it is due to operating variations. Need to monitor more parameters if we need to find out for sure.



Vehicle 2 (Town application, average running 350km) 65000km

The vehicles have been ok till the last month. The only problem as I mentioned was the sudden increase in fuel consumption with emission of black smoke. There was a problem with the nozzle which was replaced. However there has been a spurt in diesel consumption by about 15 to 20 litres per day in one of the vehicle. Unexplainable whether due to driver variation or the increased wind resistance of the southwest monsoon. TML has now offered to recalibrate the pump during which they have arranged for a float pump
As on date the recalibrated pump is yet to arrive. The float pump has not made a big difference in consumption.
Clutch and brake shoe changes have not been made (as these vehicles do not require heavy braking and frequent gear changes) though its more than 70,000 km since induction.



Vehicle 3(Town application, average running 400km) 74000 km

Identical performance to vehicle 2 though the tyre milage is a bit lower considering the tortuous route. Black smoke on gunning the engine which settles with running. There was a problem with the "S" type grease nipples on the cam pins which caused problems with greasing the cams on the rear wheels. Issue sorted out by TATA.

Both vehicles 2 & 3 are being serviced by Ms VST motors at Karur. Customer satisfaction is OK so far.
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Old 5th July 2013, 06:40   #185
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

The rule which is normally applied for rear overhang is, the rear overhang would be 50% of the wheelbase for moffusil applications and 60% of the wheelbase for long-distance applications

Also, the Scorpio and Sumo have McPherson strut front suspension but the Bus would have leaf springs/weveller/air suspension, so tyre wear due to overhang at the front, is debatable, what I think it really helps is in getting the placement of the front door right, for LPO we can have a door at the front, for LP, it has to be after the front axle

Also, I think SLF chassis are more suitable for mofussil operations since you would not require under-body storage

The classic Leyland/Tata debate, mind you, with newer fuel emission norms coming up, both companies cannot be compared to what reputations they had a few years ago. In the olden days, you went for Tata because they had oil brakes which were considered more reliable than air brakes and the engine was more suitable for start-stop use. You went for Leyland because of the sound the engine made and the cruising ability the engine had, it was very difficult to pick up momentum for Leyland while Tata was more suitable for seat-of-the-pants driving

In todays scenario, I think the thumb rule should be. If Bus - Leyland, If Lorry - Tata. A Tata chassis is definitely less desirable than a Leyland chassis, what brings it on par with Leyland is the discounts you would get on the chassis price

12M with retarder would be more suitable for expressway use, not normal roads and air-suspension has lost its advantages, if you keep it at the settings the chassis comes with from the manufacturer you end up replacing a lot of bellows over time and if you tweak it to make bellows last longer, you get a stiffer ride. For me, the middle way would be Weveller/rubber ended suspension

You would not go wrong with either ALPSV 222' or LOP 1512/55 both are all-rounders, the 12M is the perfect bus chassis, but you have to have the roads for it, I meant roads that accommodate the length and overhangs

If I was out shopping, then it would be a ALPSV Viking 222' BS4 chassis with rubber ended suspension at both ends, it should be good for a cruising speed of 70-80 kmph and a mileage of 5kmpl

Body building, you should be very careful, there are 2 schools of thought. Some operators prefer a cheap body that might last for 5 years at the max after which the bus is rebuilt, this helps because bus designs change and its cheaper to get a 'new' bus out on an old chassis. The other school is those who opt for Sutlej and their likes, the body lasts the age of the bus

Some body builders are good in 'finishing' i.e making their busses look good, like Azad, Jaico but some are not so good at making busses look great but are more value, like Prakash. Veera is able to strike that sweet spot, looks and value

I still remember what a veteran drive told me. On a 222' Leyland with a Sutlej body, you could stomp the brakes at top speed and the Bus would stop in a dead straight line without any drama
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Old 26th August 2013, 03:16   #186
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Got an invite from Popular Mega Motors for an exclusive photo shoot of a new TATA BUS at The Renai Hotel, Kochi.

This is just a teaser, more pictures on the way.
Attached Thumbnails
TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-dscf0771.jpg  

TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-dscf0774.jpg  

TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-dscf0832.jpg  

TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-dscf0864.jpg  


Last edited by GTO : 28th October 2013 at 18:43. Reason: Please avoid linking to your personal pages / websites
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Old 26th August 2013, 08:34   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjithrnath View Post
..exclusive photo shoot of a new TATA BUS at The Renai Hotel, Kochi.
This is just a teaser, more pictures
Hey.. here it comes Tata Marcopolo Paradiso G7 ?
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Old 26th August 2013, 09:13   #188
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Hey.. here it comes Tata Marcopolo Paradiso G7 ?
I thought the same thing. But I am having doubts. First thing to notice is the open front grill. Also look how the steps give way to the aisle between the seats. There is no co-drivers seat immediately after the door. Could this be a front engine bus??

Also the front design is not the same as the MarcoPolo G7 buses.

But I would love it Tata MarcoPolo bring in their G7 buses. In fact I think they should bring in the next revolution in intercity buses by bringing in double decker intercity buses, which could seat upto 64 people. MarocPolo builds many double decker intercity coaches, which are popular in South America.
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Old 26th August 2013, 09:47   #189
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Hey.. here it comes Tata Marcopolo Paradiso G7 ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I thought the same thing. But I am having doubts. First thing to notice is the open front grill. Also look how the steps give way to the aisle between the seats. There is no co-drivers seat immediately after the door. Could this be a front engine bus??

Also the front design is not the same as the MarcoPolo G7 buses.
Good observation Julupani..
Ashley2, it is a Tata Marcopolo Paradiso..not G7..another new model.
May I post it here [this is not a standard version, as mentioned in the current thread title] or as a new thread ?
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Old 26th August 2013, 09:52   #190
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by ranjithrnath View Post
Good observation Julupani..
Ashley2, it is a Tata Marcopolo Paradiso..not G7..another new model.
May I post it here [this is not a standard version, as mentioned in the current thread title] or as a new thread ?
Thanks.

I think it would be best to post as a new thread, while keeping this one for non-FBU Tata buses.
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Old 26th August 2013, 14:43   #191
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by ranjithrnath View Post
This is just a teaser, more pictures on the way.
Thanks for the photos, looking forward for the complete coverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjithrnath View Post
May I post it here [this is not a standard version, as mentioned in the current thread title] or as a new thread ?
If it's a front engine version then better to post in the current thread, if not then open a new thread.
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Old 26th August 2013, 23:03   #192
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Originally Posted by ranjithrnath View Post
Me and the co-admins who run the TATA Fans Facebook page got an invite from Popular Mega Motors for an exclusive photo shoot ...
With 2 step entry this could be an ICV?
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Old 27th August 2013, 00:33   #193
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
We would love to share the contact of the installer of this unit but beg some time to check for any issues before we recommend the same to others.
Recently came to know about Autocop Trackpro system , very low cost at Rs 5-6K , with 1 year Airtel subscription paid by co. , do you have any feedback on Autocop Trackpro ?
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Old 27th August 2013, 02:02   #194
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

I think its "Audace" model from marcopolo, Headlight is similar to above pic, following link to marcopolo brazil site.

http://www.marcopolo.com.br/website/...produto/audace

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TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)-marcopolo_lamina_audace_800.jpg  

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Old 27th August 2013, 02:35   #195
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by nijan View Post
I think its "Audace" model from marcopolo, Headlight is similar to above pic, following link to marcopolo brazil site.

http://www.marcopolo.com.br/website/...produto/audace

Looks like the "Audace". Thanks nijan.

What happened to this model, introduced earlier. Never seen one on road.

http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-ne...ation-9710.htm

Definitely the new model looks much better than this one!
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