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Old 29th August 2012, 20:08   #16
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

Congratulations! I always wondered how is the warranty (in kms and what are the clauses of not voiding it) offered on Buses and Trucks, as there are additional lights and other electrical systems added to the Bus does'nt it void the warranty? Is there any run-in periods for Buses or Trucks.
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Old 29th August 2012, 20:49   #17
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
Simple reasons

A more reliable Cummins engine than AL H series engine ( not HINO engine)
I would like to share my observation here...i also strongly feel that the new BS3 160Hp engine with Inline-FIP is actually a derivative of the original Leyland engine, which was discontinued. AL has marketed it as H series....unlike one developed from Hino used earlier.
The last Leyland engine to be used was in Taurus 2516 tippers...165Hp BS2 versions.(i believe).

Meanwhile, TML has offered this LPO1512 with 130Hp engine with 6 speed gearbox, which obviously will offer better mileage in stage carriage operations than the AL 160Hp vikings.

All the best to Madhu..
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Old 29th August 2012, 21:04   #18
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

In case of 1512 series, Private operators prefers prefer LPO models (with front overhang) whereas State Transport Corporations like TNSTC, APSRTC, KeSRTC (apart from Super Express), etc. prefer LP models.

Photo Courtesy : Ramesh Smr
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Old 29th August 2012, 21:34   #19
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Those private buses are a TATA??? couldn't really recognize it from photos, body building has improved much from earlier days where the front used to be too low and the rear at an awkward angle. TNSTC used to cut the chasis at the rear before body building.

Have seen some buses myself which by just a glance couldnt recognize if it was TATA or AL but once we get in, well, we know

But still love the AL-HINO engine sound (Rhythm?!) than the TATA's.

Coimbatore City buses doesn't need a horn right? they rev the engine that much and i love it though scary sometimes.
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Old 29th August 2012, 22:06   #20
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by ganesc View Post
Those private buses are a TATA??? couldn't really recognize it from photos, body building has improved much from earlier days where the front used to be too low and the rear at an awkward angle. TNSTC used to cut the chasis at the rear before body building.

Have seen some buses myself which by just a glance couldnt recognize if it was TATA or AL but once we get in, well, we know

But still love the AL-HINO engine sound (Rhythm?!) than the TATA's.

Coimbatore City buses doesn't need a horn right? they rev the engine that much and i love it though scary sometimes.
No wonder, it's all TATA. Earlier most of the body were built with TATA factory cowl, but now most of the bus chassis are not supplied with front cowl, hence the front design is made as per operator's request.
Most of the LP buses without front overhang does tilt more towards the front (sometime it will look like touching the speed breakers) but the LPO models are better.

I do like the growl of AL Cheetah and TATA 407 .
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Old 29th August 2012, 22:49   #21
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Though i would reserve my comments until Dr. Madhu's new bus comes into operation, the operators who opted for the new BS3 Leyland (160HP version) are reporting increase in daily fuel consumption between 10 to 20 liters (based on the route) whereas the operators switched over to BS3 LPO1512TC are saving 10 or more liters/day.
Well, the lower power figures in the TATA explain the better mileage. I don't understand why AL stopped the 130 bhp models.
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Old 30th August 2012, 00:08   #22
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
Costs 10.75 lac after discount for the chassis + 6.95 lac for the standard AE body.
Additional work on body, Tax and Insurance Extra as per your state regulations
A very small doubt. Was the Ergo Pack instrument cluster given by default or as an option by paying extra? I am asking this as the regular Tata buses and trucks produced these days seem to come fitted with the Ergo Pack instrument Cluster. Another silly doubt - Do your drivers observe the tachometer economy zone while driving in higher gears and up-shift gears accordingly or do they just maintain the efficient speed range in top gear? I ask this because the new Ergo Pack instrument cluster does not have the "economy zone" markings like it did in the previous clusters.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 30th August 2012, 13:47   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya-TJet
- Do your drivers observe the tachometer economy zone while driving in higher gears and up-shift gears accordingly or do they just maintain the efficient speed range in top gear?

Thanks in advance.
Private Mofussil drivers arent very milage concious or tech driven at present though owners do feel the pinch of rising fuel costs.
Frankly the Rev meters of most buses lie disconnected. Drivers go by the growl of the engine rather than by the tachometer reading.
I have heard however that TNSTC drivers however are able to average a milage of 6 to 6.8 kmpl (dreamy). I do not know if thats true.
The saying goes that TNSTC has trained its drivers to run engines on just the smell of Diesel....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya-TJet

A very small doubt. Was the Ergo Pack instrument cluster given by default or as an option by paying extra?
.
Everthing on that LPO1512 chassis is default.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 30th August 2012 at 13:58. Reason: back to back posts. please use multiquote feature to quote & reply to multiple posts
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Old 30th August 2012, 15:04   #24
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by download2live View Post
Do not know about KL buses but mofussil buses in Karnataka are painted vivid!!!
With a mandatory Aishwarya or Kajol on rear glass. And some crocodiles or Tigers prancing around on side body. Wonder how much that kid of paint job on buses costs.
Even I have wondered quite often why are they painted like that. Do the operators like that kind of colors or it is just some local law?
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Old 30th August 2012, 15:46   #25
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Even I have wondered quite often why are they painted like that. Do the operators like that kind of colors or it is just some local law?
It's mainly to get some attention and moreover it became like a custom with private operators in some areas.
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Old 30th August 2012, 20:24   #26
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Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
Private Mofussil drivers arent very milage concious or tech driven at present though owners do feel the pinch of rising fuel costs.
Frankly the Rev meters of most buses lie disconnected. Drivers go by the growl of the engine rather than by the tachometer reading.
I have heard however that TNSTC drivers however are able to average a milage of 6 to 6.8 kmpl (dreamy). I do not know if thats true.
The saying goes that TNSTC has trained its drivers to run engines on just the smell of Diesel....
Well then, I think its time these drivers started getting some more "driver training" on economical driving practices. My small suggestion - why don't you start the trend among private operators in your area? That way, when you get some good FE and lower running costs to show off, the others might also follow suit. As for the TNSTC vehicles, not entirely sure about the 6-6.8 kmpl bit, especially given the condition of their maintenance. It might be a gig by the TNSTC drivers just to poke others. But, when interacting with drivers, they have told me that they are just about managing 5.5 kmpl (This is in the Chennai - Thiruvannamalai - Vizhupuram route).

The one more thing that I have seen drivers say is about "pump lock", especially in Inline FIP engines. What I could work out according to their description is setting some kind of a lock pin on the accelerator pedal's rack. So, they can't push it beyond a certain limit. Even the mechanical engine governor can't feed any more excess fuel when the engine is getting loaded. That's why you can see a lot of TNSTC buses (right from 57 seaters to UD) struggling even on moderate uphill inclines. This when on plain roads, give slightly more FE, but will harm the engine in the long run and is not recommended by the manufacturer.

Also here in Chennai, I have heard that the tires on brand new JNNURM buses are put in the long distance intercity buses and that these new buses are fitted with clap-trap tires. The drivers attribute this to the MTC and SETC management not willing to purchase new tires as frequently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
Everything on that LPO1512 chassis is default.
That's a good thing, cause it's high time TATA changed their age old technology for regular vehicles. I, working in TATA, have heard so many stories of these buses and trucks being too outdated compared to the competition even though they are less expensive than others. All the best for the successful running of your new bus. Do share with us the pictures of your new baby once body building is done.
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Old 30th August 2012, 22:25   #27
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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As for the TNSTC vehicles, not entirely sure about the 6-6.8 kmpl bit, especially given the condition of their maintenance. It might be a gig by the TNSTC drivers just to poke others. But, when interacting with drivers, they have told me that they are just about managing 5.5 kmpl (This is in the Chennai - Thiruvannamalai - Vizhupuram route).

The one more thing that I have seen drivers say is about "pump lock", especially in Inline FIP engines. What I could work out according to their description is setting some kind of a lock pin on the accelerator pedal's rack. So, they can't push it beyond a certain limit. Even the mechanical engine governor can't feed any more excess fuel when the engine is getting loaded. That's why you can see a lot of TNSTC buses (right from 57 seaters to UD) struggling even on moderate uphill inclines. This when on plain roads, give slightly more FE, but will harm the engine in the long run and is not recommended by the manufacturer.

Also here in Chennai, I have heard that the tires on brand new JNNURM buses are put in the long distance intercity buses and that these new buses are fitted with clap-trap tires. The drivers attribute this to the MTC and SETC management not willing to purchase new tires as frequently.

That's a good thing, cause it's high time TATA changed their age old technology for regular vehicles. I, working in TATA, have heard so many stories of these buses and trucks being too outdated compared to the competition even though they are less expensive than others. All the best for the successful running of your new bus. Do share with us the pictures of your new baby once body building is done.
Some private operators also report 5+ figures (the first TATA bus pictured in this thread also reported the same) especially when the route is less crowded and has less number of stops in between.

As for the "pump lock", are you referring the system that is followed when the chassis is sent from the factory to the dealer? (it does have a arrangement such that the driver cannot apply accelerator to the maximum, may be since it is run in period).

Things were worst in TNSTC's, MTC and SETC an year before, but it is slowly changing towards a positive progress.

OT: Can you share some information on PRIMA trucks like performance, market acceptability, sales figures, etc? especially the launches that are going to happen in near future (your avatar picture looks good).

Last edited by v1kram : 30th August 2012 at 22:29.
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Old 30th August 2012, 23:15   #28
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy View Post
Simple reasons

A lot of fellow operators have switched to TML
Good feedback on quality of the vehicle
Lower operating costs
A more reliable Cummins engine than AL H series engine ( not HINO engine)
Fuel efficiency is better than AL ( AL as of today gives me only 3.3km/litre)
Madhuperiasamy, Congrats on your new buy. Can i know how much kmpl fellow operators are getting on their TATA LPO1512 ?
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Old 31st August 2012, 00:41   #29
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Can i know how much kmpl fellow operators are getting on their TATA LPO1512 ?
The buses running within city are giving around 4.5 kmpl and one of the semi mofussil type is giving 5+ kmpl. At present the number of LPO 1612 12m buses are bit higher than LPO 1512 models. Soon we will be seeing couple of LPO 1512 buses getting inducted (one each in city and mofussil) and then we can be more clear on the mileage part.
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Old 31st August 2012, 10:41   #30
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Default Re: TATA Motors Buses (Standard Versions)

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Some private operators also report 5+ figures (the first TATA bus pictured in this thread also reported the same) especially when the route is less crowded and has less number of stops in between.

As for the "pump lock", are you referring the system that is followed when the chassis is sent from the factory to the dealer? (it does have a arrangement such that the driver cannot apply accelerator to the maximum, may be since it is run in period).

Things were worst in TNSTC's, MTC and SETC an year before, but it is slowly changing towards a positive progress.

OT: Can you share some information on PRIMA trucks like performance, market acceptability, sales figures, etc? especially the launches that are going to happen in near future (your avatar picture looks good).

The "pump lock" is a sort of a crude way to stop fuel feed beyond a certain level, no matter how hard the accelerator is pressed. I'm not aware of any system that is followed when the vehicle is sent from the factory to the dealer. Nowadays, i don't think it matters because even during QA testing, they test the vehicles thoroughly and vigorously, doing some high speeds right after rolling out of the production lines. I think maybe they might limit the engine speed to around 2000 RPM. Will verify that and get back to you.

But, I do know what the contract drivers do to those brand new vehicles. They are given a fixed quota of diesel to reach their destination from the Chassis transport area. Whatever fuel they manage to save from the quota is their profit. They basically over-inflate the tires to about 120~125 psi and then drive it in an unbelievable manner. What they do on open highways is build up maximum speed possible, and then "coast" the vehicle in Neutral. This may not seem like much now; but in reality, they tend to do damage to the propeller shaft's strength, it's Universal Joints and not to mention the spline shaft on the gearbox; especially when done OVER & OVER AGAIN for nearly 2000 kms. The FE they achieve in this manner will put some good "D Segment" diesel sedans to shame.

A Big O.T. - (for answering v1kram's queries)

As for the Prima; they are very good reliable trucks. The tractors (4028 & 4928) are mainly used for the purpose of ODC haulage and steel coil transport. They give good FE of around 2.5~2.8 kmpl in real life economy driving styles. Some owners have reported 3+ kmpl. Not sure of the veracity of their claims. The one main advantage is the use of 11R20 tires on the Prima, which helps trucks travel longer in a single stretch compared to the normal trucks. They can travel for upto 300 kms easily and still not get over-heated as compared to normal cross ply tires that heat up considerably in around 150~175 kms of running. That apart they have lots of creature comforts and usable features that would put most 10~12 lakh cars to shame. As for the performance, the Prima 4028 can hit 99kmph top speed and the Prima 4928 can do 77kmph respectively with a full Gross Combination Weight.

As for the tippers, they are also very good performers. There are three main models for sale in India. They are the 2528.K & 3138.K for deep excavation mines, and the 3128.K for surface transport, although even that can be used for deep excavation if required. They are usually good in carrying twice to even trice their rated loads in mines, where no RTO rules apply related to Gross Vehicle Weight.

The market acceptance is slow; its not selling as fast as Tata had hoped (especially the tractors, since when fully kitted out, they cost more than an entry level E Class Merc or BMW 5 series) but is nevertheless picking up pace gradually. No idea about sales figures sorry, as I'm in R&D and have no idea about that side of the business. As for the new launches, they are going to launch the LPT 3721 (5-Axle rigid truck with 25 tonnes haulage capacity) and LPK 3118 (8x4 twin steer tipper) vehicles sometime in September. That apart, I can't comment on other products due to the organizational rules regarding non-disclosure of information.

Cheers and safe driving.
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