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Old 6th January 2016, 03:00   #61
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
All home-grown manufacturers have separate chassis for bus and truck applications, and these chassis have differences wrt the suspension setup, specs of aggregates such as axles, shafts etc., gear ratios, just to name a few
So axles/suspension are less beefy because loading is much lower compared to truck and overall gear ratios are taller for the same reason and also get higher speeds. Other than that its still a truck chassis?

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Volvo does the same "buses built on trucks globally".
As rightly said, many who claim to be tech savvy, speak in a way the FE buses are crap and Volvo is the true bus chassis
Unfortunately, the passenger experience (comfort) of FE buses with outside built bodies do come up short when compared to Volvo/Merc/Scania so its not very hard to convince the customer that they are built on crappy truck (like) chassis

Not to sound unpatriotic or anything but isn't it true that the buses that are flipping over are all FE home-grown bus chassis with bodies built by cottage industry?

Last edited by Mpower : 6th January 2016 at 16:18.
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Old 6th January 2016, 10:21   #62
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
So axles/suspension are less beefy because loading is much lower compared to truck and overall gear ratios are taller for the same reason and also get higher speeds. Other than that its still a truck chassis?

Unfortunately, the passenger experience (comfort) of FE buses with outside built bodies do come up short when compared to Volvo/Merc/Scania so its not very hard to convince the customer that they are built on crappy truck (like) chassis
A truck's axles et al will be designed to withstand extreme cases of overloading (which used to be the norm, still is in many cases, in India), while those of a bus may not be. Just FYI, the same companies who manufacture "true bus chassis" in India also sell "truck-chassis" and buses built on "truck-chassis" in other countries:

Volvo B270F FE chassis
Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-release050711c.jpg

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About the passenger comfort, you cannot compare the ride quality of a plush D-segment sedan with that offered by a B/B+ segment hatchback The same is the case concerning buses.


Quote:
isn't it true that the buses that are flipping over are all FE home-grown buse chassis with bodies built by cottage industry?
There are cases of Volvo and Merc buses flipping over, burning, getting crushed too. Now, there are a greater number of "bus chassis with bodies built by cottage industry" on the roads than there are Volvo/Merc/Scania/Hino buses. So, the number of accidents involving the former would be greater in absolute figures.

However, there's no denial of the fact that not all bus bodies are as good or as well-engineered as those from Volvo/Scania etc. At the same time, there are a few world-renowned body options from Irizar, Wrightbus, Hispano Carrocera (now Tata-Hispano) etc that are available for home-grown bus chassis.
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Old 6th January 2016, 10:31   #63
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

If it's not the chassis or the body then what do we attribute as the reason for the better ride comfort in Volvo, Scania, Merc. etc? Just the suspension?
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Old 6th January 2016, 16:42   #64
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Just FYI, the same companies who manufacture "true bus chassis" in India also sell "truck-chassis" and buses built on "truck-chassis" in other countries:

About the passenger comfort, you cannot compare the ride quality of a plush D-segment sedan with that offered by a B/B+ segment hatchback The same is the case concerning buses.


There are cases of Volvo and Merc buses flipping over, burning, getting crushed too. Now, there are a greater number of "bus chassis with bodies built by cottage industry" on the roads than there are Volvo/Merc/Scania/Hino buses. So, the number of accidents involving the former would be greater in absolute figures.
  • Am aware of Volvo FE buses. The so called Truck chassis is perceived as being more rugged for poor road conditions of 3rd world countries. I have traveled in these buses (chartered) in the US as well and they are quite terrible actually
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_Bus
  • Not disputing your 2nd point either(B vs C) Note there is also a price to be paid for that comfort and sophistication. My argument is only that one configuration is superior to the other
  • Good point about sales volumes but also note that these Volvos (because of their power and speed) are driven at speeds lot higher than the local buses and lot higher than what is considered safe for our road/traffic conditions and these maybe the cause for those accidents (rather than the bus structure being unsafe)
  • As far as bodies from Hispano/Irizar, thats great news and definitely should be better than cottage built body but I feel that the best product results when the bodies are engineered and built from the same organization (like a typical car).
  • To give you an analogy, we see that even in the smart phone industry where Apple phones have an edge over Android because how well hardware and software work together seamlessly

Last edited by Mpower : 8th January 2016 at 02:33.
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Old 6th January 2016, 22:16   #65
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

Irizar is no longer just a body builder. They are now matured completely into true bus and coach manufacturer. They have showcased the complete range of integral buses and coaches in this edition of Bus world. Infact there are couple of i2e electric buses already running in London and you could see some more of them coming soon.
Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-jaz__543137.jpg
Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-jaz__543458.jpg

They are manufacturing as many as 250 integral coaches per annum.
Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-20151017_184532.jpg

Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-20151017_101454.jpg

Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-20151017_101503.jpg

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Its with this i8 launch irizar actually stole the complete show. Easy we could see all the top bosses from Volvo, Scania and Evo Bus (the Merc and Setra in Europe) were present along with us for the meet. That shows the quality of buses they make.

Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-20151017_185531.jpg

Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?-20151017_185640.jpg

Also they have lot of group companies which are specialist in many products for the bus industry like door systems, vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure communications, Electromobility systems and components like inverters, converters, DC/DC, Junction Box, Opportunity of charge station at terminal etc.

Having said so much their Indian innings was very poor with Ashokleyland. I really do not know who have missed whom as each is good at their base.

Last edited by Ashley2 : 6th January 2016 at 22:21.
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Old 7th January 2016, 12:42   #66
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Having said so much their Indian innings was very poor with Ashokleyland. I really do not know who have missed whom as each is good at their base.
I suspect the third party in the tie-up, TVS to have such watered down products in the name of cost. They could have very well invested more and come with a good product equivalent to Volvo, Scania etc.
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Old 8th January 2016, 09:40   #67
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
....
There are cases of Volvo and Merc buses flipping over, burning, getting crushed too. Now, there are a greater number of "bus chassis with bodies built by cottage industry" on the roads than there are Volvo/Merc/Scania/Hino buses. So, the number of accidents involving the former would be greater in absolute figures...
You are right about this. Total number of Volvo's sold so far since they entered Indian market itself is less than 6000. This includes not less than 1000 city buses. And not less than 30% of the intercity buses are already scrapped. So this brings the count to around just 3000 buses across India. This is the sale volume of Tata and Ashokleyland put together in a month (approx).
With this numbers the accident levels are so high. No matter it was driven by insane or any one. But when bunch of people are burnt and killed in this fancy products not many are agreeing the technical problems they had and how silently they are getting corrected. Operators like VRL are so professional and with good engineering knowledge are doing lot of local modifications in these buses when they are getting enough response from manufacturers. Even the recent mantra of "true bus chassis" or "safe bus" has taken a back seat only because they understand the issues.
Now VRL is fitting a new range of radors in the buses which actively brakes when the braking distance is unsafe. For a bus a costing a crore even active braking system was not an option list but a driver door which could save a life was given as option.
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Old 27th July 2016, 19:07   #68
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

Cross-posting the pics from the Accidents in India thread (Pics: Accidents in India):

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Quote:
In a terrifying incident, a passenger bus operated by private transport company Durgamba Motors caught fire at Varur near Hubbali in Karnataka, leaving three burned to death and 9 others critically injured. The bus was on its way to Dharwad from Bengaluru, and the accident is reported to have happened between 5am and 5:30am, according to the police. It was a non-AC sleeper bus
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Old 28th February 2017, 21:43   #69
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Default Re: Sleeper coaches : Bane or Boon?

Sleeper bus regulations are finally now released, and is due for implementation. The regulation, if implemented will ensure every state registering sleeper buses, unlike the present scenario of reg limited to few states.
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Understanding of Sleeper Bus regulations AIS 119.

Sleeper Buses are becoming one of the preferred choice for Intercity bus transportation. Though Volvo, Scania and Mercedes are yet to offer to fully built sleeper buses, they are somehow been built, registered as sleeper buses using current norms. Now a days, we a see lot of changes are being done in the original structure of bus, like modifying the rear roof to increase the height to accommodate a berth, lowering the floor to increase the head room. These are done by body builders in request from Customers and again as demanded by passengers. Now in order to overcome these modification and in an effort to bring the sleeper bus registration under law, after several rounds of debates, a regulation for sleeper buses as “AIS-119 Specific Constructional Requirements for Sleeper Coaches” was under draft for quite sometime, since 2012. The standards are released recently and here we explain you more on what is now regulated. Let’s also understand whether the regulation can bring some changes or not. Post the implementation every state can register sleeper buses unlike present scenario where in states like Tamil Nadu, Kerala aren’t allowing sleeper registering........
Link to source : http://www.cvnews.in/understanding-of-sleeper-bus-regulations-ais-119/

Last edited by Ashley2 : 28th February 2017 at 21:54.
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