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Old 26th September 2012, 14:33   #31
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

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Originally Posted by hdnivara View Post
Why is the ABC arrangement is different here? Is this how it is for trucks? Any reason behind this?
I did not understand the question here. The arrangement is AB on one side and C on the other side of the steering column and in the proper order. If you are confused about the shape of the pedals, TATA changed the shape of the brake pedal some time back. This pic should give an idea.

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Why do they need ABS for an offroad mining tipper? Any Idea?
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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
On a serious note, would like to repeat @thecdkfactor's query - how would ABS be useful for these trucks?
I think ABS would come in handy for these trucks, especially in mining operations. Most of these mining trucks operate in slushy terrain with little margin of error. As ABS increases the steering ability by eliminating wheel lock, it will help them to follow a better course in these kind of conditions, where a slippage can result in the vehicle falling off into depths. Loss of steering ability can be fatal in such cases. Experts can pour in their thoughts.
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Old 26th September 2012, 21:28   #32
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
I think ABS would come in handy for these trucks, especially in mining operations. Most of these mining trucks operate in slushy terrain with little margin of error. As ABS increases the steering ability by eliminating wheel lock, it will help them to follow a better course in these kind of conditions, where a slippage can result in the vehicle falling off into depths. Loss of steering ability can be fatal in such cases. Experts can pour in their thoughts.
Sir, In these slushy terrains, what is the maximum speed that the vehicle is going to achieve? 30 - 50? Perhaps lesser than that. How is ABS going to come into picture or help at these speeds?
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Old 27th September 2012, 09:46   #33
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

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Originally Posted by thecdkfactor View Post
Sir, In these slushy terrains, what is the maximum speed that the vehicle is going to achieve? 30 - 50? Perhaps lesser than that. How is ABS going to come into picture or help at these speeds?
Primary purpose of ABS is to prevent wheel locking which can occur irrespective of the speed. In slushy conditions the wheel locks more easily leading to more of swerving than in the dry and ABS comes in very handy. And another indirect benefit of ABS is reduced tyre wear. In one of my Quality system audits I have seen studies by one of the leading brake manufacturing companies wherein buses fitted with ABS had significantly lesser tyre wear.
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Old 27th September 2012, 13:18   #34
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

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Originally Posted by thecdkfactor View Post
Sir, In these slushy terrains, what is the maximum speed that the vehicle is going to achieve? 30 - 50? Perhaps lesser than that. How is ABS going to come into picture or help at these speeds?
This is a misunderstanding regarding the principle of ABS. ABS can kick in at any speed. ABS helps to reduce wheel slip, thereby giving the vehicle more directional control.
In offroading, if you encounter a slushy incline, the correct technique is to come down in a low gear in low speed (crawl down) and never stand on the brake as it will result in the loss of control, if the vehicle starts sliding (Offroading gurus can help me out here). Key is to keep the wheels rolling. Here also, the achieved speed is nowhere close to 30 or 50.
The basic principle remains the same here. Avoid slipping, come down slow and steady and maintain direction control. If your wheels get locked, at any speed, it's a risk.
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Old 27th September 2012, 16:33   #35
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

ABS is Mandatory for all commercial vehicles in most of the countries. Even in INDIA the govt had taken this initiative but it got lost in process somewhere. When the rule was kicking in along with reflective tapes TATA Motors also procured 2 big dynos with ABS brake testers.

ABS should be mandatory on all commercial vehicles. It helps in big way.

The showcased tipper was being used since long times. For showcasing the wheels were painted by some showdy painter who dint even have common sense to mask before painting it seems.

When it comes to Commercial Vehicles- TATA is the undisputed KING.

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
This is a misunderstanding regarding the principle of ABS. ABS can kick in at any speed. ABS helps to reduce wheel slip, thereby giving the vehicle more directional control.
In offroading, if you encounter a slushy incline, the correct technique is to come down in a low gear in low speed (crawl down) and never stand on the brake as it will result in the loss of control, if the vehicle starts sliding (Offroading gurus can help me out here). Key is to keep the wheels rolling. Here also, the achieved speed is nowhere close to 30 or 50.
The basic principle remains the same here. Avoid slipping, come down slow and steady and maintain direction control. If your wheels get locked, at any speed, it's a risk.
Perfectly explained.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 27th September 2012 at 16:36.
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Old 27th September 2012, 17:29   #36
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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
I did not understand the question here. The arrangement is AB on one side and C on the other side of the steering column and in the proper order. If you are confused about the shape of the pedals, TATA changed the shape of the brake pedal some time back. This pic should give an idea.
Exactly. I didn't knew that Tata had changed the pedals.
Spoiled by the good old Pallavan
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Old 27th September 2012, 20:32   #37
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Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post

ABS should be mandatory on all commercial vehicles. It helps in big way.
Right now in India, ABS is mandatory for all Tractor Trailers and haulage vehicles dealing with hazardous goods!

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
This is a misunderstanding regarding the principle of ABS. ABS can kick in at any speed. ABS helps to reduce wheel slip, thereby giving the vehicle more directional control.
In offroading, if you encounter a slushy incline, the correct technique is to come down in a low gear in low speed (crawl down) and never stand on the brake as it will result in the loss of control, if the vehicle starts sliding (Offroading gurus can help me out here). Key is to keep the wheels rolling. Here also, the achieved speed is nowhere close to 30 or 50.
The basic principle remains the same here. Avoid slipping, come down slow and steady and maintain direction control. If your wheels get locked, at any speed, it's a risk.
In offroading, when i crawl instead of braking, i ensure that there is sufficient traction available at my wheels so that my wheels do not get stuck in slush. When they get stuck, i use a diff lock to get out.

In slushy inclines, i do not brake to slow the speeds because i do not want the momentum to shift to my vehicle front - especially when i am carrying a over load as it will result in vehicle upsetting and related stuff.

I will put my doubt in an other way. What is the possibility of wheel locking when a tipper is carrying over load (which it does always) and is moving at relatively low speeds? how?

Last edited by Zappo : 28th September 2012 at 12:32. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 28th September 2012, 08:04   #38
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Default Re: Tata Motors launches 6 Heavy Trucks & FleetMan Telematics Services

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Originally Posted by thecdkfactor View Post
In offroading, when i crawl instead of braking, i ensure that there is sufficient traction available at my wheels so that my wheels do not get stuck in slush. When they get stuck, i use a diff lock to get out.
Agreed, but what happens if your wheels get locked? Locking is different from getting stuck, right? Once your wheels get locked, they start sliding on the surface and even if you try to steer, it will not respond to the input and continue sliding in the original direction.

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Originally Posted by thecdkfactor View Post
In slushy inclines, i do not brake to slow the speeds because i do not want the momentum to shift to my vehicle front - especially when i am carrying a over load as it will result in vehicle upsetting and related stuff.
In inclines with turns at the apex, you might need to apply brakes. In such situations where you have to steer, ABS assists you in tracking a proper course.

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Originally Posted by thecdkfactor View Post
I will put my doubt in an other way. What is the possibility of wheel locking when a tipper is carrying over load (which it does always) and is moving at relatively low speeds? how?
It is really simple to lock your wheels, loaded or not, in conditions I mentioned. The incline might not be of high grade. By instinct, many people put their feet on the brake pedal, once you start losing traction and begin to slide.
[As a side note, you can search youtube for "Deadliest Journeys - Pakistan" where they show heavily laden trucks commuting to Chitral valley. But those truckers are not fortunate enough to have ABS, but it would have helped them immensely if they had. Interesting video though, especially the part where they ride down into the valley on the slippery road.]

Anyway, I think we are deviating too much from the original topic. The ABS discussion can be continued in the dedicated ABS thread.

Last edited by A350XWB : 28th September 2012 at 08:07.
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Old 28th September 2012, 12:22   #39
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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
The Tata LPT 3723: Rs 25.5 lakhs

The turning circle diameter is 21.9 meters and it has twin steerable front axles. The truck also has a tag-lift axle.
So, finally they learned the Ashok Leyland way by giving twin steerable front axles. LPT3118 is a failure in north India due to "Panic" in steering.
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Old 28th September 2012, 17:22   #40
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So, finally they learned the Ashok Leyland way by giving twin steerable front axles. LPT3118 is a failure in north India due to "Panic" in steering.
It has nothing to do with AL. 3118 with pusher lift axle was selling almost thrice that of AL 3116 twin steer till a few months back, so calling it a flop may be a little far fetched. In 3723, there is already a tag lift axle and hence it is a basic requirement to have a twin steerable front axle in the interest of Maneuverability and Load Distribution.
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Old 28th September 2012, 18:25   #41
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It has nothing to do with AL. 3118 with pusher lift axle was selling almost thrice that of AL 3116 twin steer till a few months back, so calling it a flop may be a little far fetched. .
Can you please let us know the source? AFAIK, both were performing equally well in terms of sales?
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Old 30th September 2012, 10:48   #42
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It has nothing to do with AL. 3118 with pusher lift axle was selling almost thrice that of AL 3116 twin steer till a few months back, so calling it a flop may be a little far fetched. In 3723, there is already a tag lift axle and hence it is a basic requirement to have a twin steerable front axle in the interest of Maneuverability and Load Distribution.
LPT3118 is a nightmare to reverse with tag axle not lifted, you need to lift it when ever you have to reverse the truck. Also compare the turning radius of 3118 with AL in real, you will find huge difference, the tag axle was posing a huge problem in steering, sometimes with heavy loads the vehicle just refuses to steer at moderate speeds. AL on other hand is so easy to steer and it turns without any hassle.

LPT3723 has tag lift axle after the 2 main rear axles not before like in 3118 where the tag axle is just after front axle, this creates huge difference in maneuverability.
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Old 30th September 2012, 22:07   #43
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Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
3118 with pusher lift axle was selling almost thrice that of AL 3116 twin steer till a few months back, so calling it a flop may be a little far fetched.
It is not at all a surprise considering that Tata has more than 60% market share in the CV space, However the numbers alone does not corroborate product superiority. That way Volvo is an utter flop in India!
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Old 1st October 2012, 00:43   #44
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The torque figures are astonishing. Who is Cummins by the way?

Cummins provides engines for almost all the Tata trucks made under the name of Tata Cummins Ltd. So, all the engines we see in tata trucks are basically derivatives of succesfull engines used in US and Europe (predominantly US).

Cummins is an US (biggest)engine maker with Indian subsdiary named as Cummins India Ltd.

Let me know if you need any more information on the same.. I work with them..
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Old 1st October 2012, 02:01   #45
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Who is Cummins by the way?
Cummins Inc., a global power leader, is a corporation of complementary business units that design, manufacture, distribute and service engines and related technologies, including fuel systems, controls, air handling, filtration, emission solutions and electrical power generation systems. Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, (USA)

Click the link for more details:http://www.cummins.com/cmi/navigatio...ns&menuId=1000


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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
This is because the lower the mounting position, the more the road is illuminated.

The original position has been left as an option for custom body builders.
Lower position is best & safest to both the truck & oncoming vehicles but as per what we say More/bigger is the better also comes into play here also.

Truckers like to add the OEM headlamps to previous blanked position also, which inturn increases the overall headlamps score for a truck to 4 plus fog lamps/additional lights extra, posing a hazard to oncoming vehicles.
I don't appreciate this move, since the time has arrived for TATA to change the basic front design to something more better & practical one.
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