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Old 12th August 2013, 11:18   #181
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
There are many factors, and I'm far an expert on this one. But by and large using wide body aircraft on short haul routes doesn't happen very often. I know there were several route in Europe and I used to fly a 747 domestically in Japan many years ago. Also American Airlines used to have a few routes in the US using wide bodies.

Still, wide bodies (i.e. 747, 777, 380 etc.) are difficult to operate economically on short routes. They use a lot of fuel during taxi, waiting and take off.
Jeroen
The domestic 747's used in Japan were 747 SR (Short Range), where the fuel capacity was reduced and the payload capacity increased to serve high density inter-city routes. They also had strengthened components for high cycle usage. The capacity was 498 to more than 500 passengers in a high density configuration. (more info here)

But the economy and the geography of Japan warranted these aircrafts as there are lot more people using air travel on the inter-city routes. Thus, the load factors make economic sense to run high density configuration airplanes.

In India, the people who make use of air travel is really less. Again in the US, there is a sizeable amount of people who travel by air and also, the sheer size of the country warrants the use of widebodies on domestic routes. Even now, there are routes in US served using widebodies.

And thinking of plane sharing, many people select an airline to fly in, considering different factors like cost, service, punctuality, safety record etc etc. So, sharing an aircraft by 6E, AI, 9W may not be a good idea for the carriers. Afterall, brand building is something.

Economy plays a huge role in deciding the equipment. It's not very fuel efficient to fly a large aircraft on a short route, until there is enough traffic.

Last edited by A350XWB : 12th August 2013 at 11:19.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 03:54   #182
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Hello,

Thank you again for taking time to read this and educating yourselves and having these wonderful queries. I had been away in volunteering for some relief work and doing petty work in my home state Uttrakhand, hence the delay in my replies.

I will be ignoring the distinguished gentleman Jeroen because I find his the responses to my posts offensive and disrespectful. I did not know being respectful of a persons career is a thing of the past. Passing lose comments such as, "it will take a real pilot to answer that one" does not make you a better person than me.

I do not need to list of my qualifications in order for anyone to let me know if I am a real pilot or not. I don't have anything to prove to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
So, finally we still haven't learnt why the Indian skies are more stringent (and hence safer), have we?
Have you guys seen how difficult it is for Tata-Air Asia to get through the babus and the regulations that we have! We have got to be strict right?


Okay, jokes apart....

The Indian skies are safer because of stringent mandatory requirement of instruments, the per-requisites for maintenance, the training, the approvals and above all something known as flight duty time limitations being the most restrictive.

A pilot in Europe can be flying you on a 12 hour flight after a rest of just 6 hours. (Pilots reading this, this is in accordance with ICAO DOC 9966) This is one extremely significant measure that ensure safety.

If this subject matter interests you please click on the link below:

All this tug of war between pilots and the ministry is only because they never took inputs from the system which were concerned.

India's flight duty time limitation (FDTL) is striking a perfect balance, I am very thankful to the Civil Aviation Ministry of India, Dr. Zaidi for letting us be a part of this instrumental FDTL that is making the Indian skies safe.

Gentlemen, if you still have doubts it is perfectly fine. Please ask me in a respectful way & I will be very much obliged to shed light to this topic.

http://dgca.nic.in/reports/Report_FDTL.pdf

The above link is an old yet significant document. This is something we pilots worked on along with the regulator.

This can't be enough iFly! Amerika should be safer!!

Have you ever thought of what happens as your airplanes sleep through the night? Gentlemen, they go through a very stringent layover inspection. Now normally you could have engineers who work for 18 hours around the world.

How do you feel about having your car checked by an engineer and a technician who have had only 8 hours off for themselves? In which they commute home, and back... Run some personal errands perhaps?


http://dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20circ...0for%20AME.pdf


Gentlemen, our nation is one of the very few nations that has a regulation for rest period for engineers!



We are an emerging market, a developing country. As much as I would like to say we are a superpower... we are perhaps comparable to countries like Indonesia... Google Indonesia Lion Air.

Things go wrong very fast in aviation. Lion Air is just an example with three accidents this year alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post

I remember a particular Air India flight which literally jolted everyone. This was from Bhopal to Mumbai, and the landing went so horribly wrong the baggage compartment doors opened and a couple of pieces of baggage actually fell down. The tail swung wildly for a few moments before finally the plane stabilized. A narrow escape. That was as a passenger. I don't know if the pilot had it in control and whether this was just one of the "Ouch!" moments - just like when I ride rough over some potholes and my passengers may feel anxiety and jolts, and I might just shrug it off.
Respected Sir,

I cannot think of pilots as well trained as Air India anywhere in the world. Having said that all one can do is speculate on why is it that landing was the way it was that day, however I urge you to listen to superman, as he once said...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Yep, still waiting for that one; Its a toughie, will take a real pilot to answer that one.

If you're looking for a real pilot this is an interesting site; checked my own name and sure enough I'm in there.

Jeroen
Thank you sir! I am sure you're a great pilot and I wish you clear skies and happy landings!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sindabad.sailor View Post
I have faced high temperatures in cabin prior take off, lot of times. Once it was too much to bear at Goa - Dabolim. It was Sahara Airlines flight then. I kept on asking the attendants for the reason. After seeing my persistence, I was informed that for running the air con while on tarmac, the aircraft uses fuel as coolant. Since there was an appreciable delay in take off, the fuel was getting heated up and hence pilot had to switch the air con off.
I till date don't believe this. I guess this thread can throw some light.
Before I reply to this one, may I please add that I love your team-BHP handle!

On ground the aircraft air-conditioning system has a lot going against it.
  1. It is parked in an area usually built using tar and has a temperature higher than what is reported by the met department. This temperature is something called as dry bulb temperature with the temperature sensor being in shade and a few feet above the ground. So, if you're in a Nagpur with your phone showing you its 45 degrees... It probably 50 degrees.
  2. IT'S OUT IN THE SUN! Think about it... It's getting heated up as you are waiting to board the airplane.
  3. Ever tried your car's air-con with two windows rolled down? That's kinda another biggie. Three of the four doors are open in the ground adding to loss of cooling. Two doors are usually for passengers to embark and one door is where the food comes in from! Yummy!!
Switched off the air-con? Hmm... I doubt that but then again, can merely speculate. Hope you clicked on the link above on what superman said!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norhog View Post
The aeronautical number cruncher's please chip in..
The domestic flights between the metro cities in India are having same timing and cost of seat. e.g there are Indigo, Air India and Jet flight from kolkata to Mumbai at 0600 hrs on week day mornings.
The ticket cost is exactly the same.
All of then fly airbus A320s or Boeing737.
So aircraft carrying approx 160 passangers each.
So total number of passangers 160 x 3 is 480.
Why not get a bigger aircraft like a 747 and one part can be looked after by one airline say Air India seat nos 1 to 30, Indigo by 31 to 50..you get the picture.Then divide the fuel and maintenance cost 3 ways.
Wont that turn out cheaper.
If it is a crazy idea please excuse.
It's a brilliant idea! I would love to fly them wide-body airplanes! We guys are barely able to fill up all our seats these days thou! To add to that our airports aren't that 'big' to handle those airplanes!

Also, with the INR weakening, Syrian crisis and fuel prices going up to 'Infinity and beyond' the present business model makes more sense.

Look around... Nice deals if you've to fly... Log on and book yourself a flight... Help me get my paycheque! Or even better, a pay hike



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedate View Post
Some people who fly have bigger egos than the airplane!

My friend never fly Jet Airways - just because the courier company didn't deliver him the jet privilege card stating his residence is beyond delivery area! My friend wrote an email to Jet loyalty customer care, but never received a reply. He simply stopped flying Jet and JetKonnect!

When companies try cost cutting by taking cheap service(even in loyalty/privilege card delivery!!!) they are losing valuable(profitable and paying) customers!
Why fly Jet when you've indiGo! Always ontime, courteous & hassle free!


Quote:
Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
The domestic 747's used in Japan were 747 SR (Short Range), where the fuel capacity was reduced and the payload capacity increased to serve high density inter-city routes. They also had strengthened components for high cycle usage. The capacity was 498 to more than 500 passengers in a high density configuration. (more info here)

But the economy and the geography of Japan warranted these aircrafts as there are lot more people using air travel on the inter-city routes. Thus, the load factors make economic sense to run high density configuration airplanes.

In India, the people who make use of air travel is really less. Again in the US, there is a sizeable amount of people who travel by air and also, the sheer size of the country warrants the use of widebodies on domestic routes. Even now, there are routes in US served using widebodies.

And thinking of plane sharing, many people select an airline to fly in, considering different factors like cost, service, punctuality, safety record etc etc. So, sharing an aircraft by 6E, AI, 9W may not be a good idea for the carriers. Afterall, brand building is something.

Economy plays a huge role in deciding the equipment. It's not very fuel efficient to fly a large aircraft on a short route, until there is enough traffic.
Very nicely explained. Couldn't have said it better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Agree!

I once had a very similar landing at Delhi from a 777-200, the other passengers were all praises (including an ex-KF pilot/flight instructor) for the perfectly smooth landing, and I was furious, because as a frequent flier, that idiot of a pilot had actually put full wheels down almost a couple of hundred meters past the regular zone. Except most people just don't get it :(

And like you pilots say, air above and runway behind the plane is of no use to a pilot - I believe it myself
Yes! What's behind you is not a runway... But a 777 appears to 'float' a little longer. If a KFA flight instructor was praises for it... I'm gonna be biased and give him the benefit of doubt there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by revtech View Post
instead of trying to google.. i thought ill just refer to the Boeing FCOM

here is an extract,

"After landing, autobrake application begins when:
• both forward thrust levers are retarded to IDLE
• the main wheels spin–up."




there is no RTO "button" , its a maneuver. which begins with thrust levers to idle and thats when the autobrakes engage only if the speed is higher than a pre-determined value.

Thank you RTO. I take you seriously and just wanted to say thank you for sharing this info. Unfortunately the sciolists will continue to doubt us *shrugs in disbelief*




____________________________
____________________________


For those who requested... This is over Gujarat...
Attached Thumbnails
Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review-photo-2.jpg  

Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review-photo-3.jpg  


Last edited by khan_sultan : 4th September 2013 at 20:58. Reason: No SMS language please. [ thru == through ]
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Old 2nd September 2013, 07:35   #183
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So you are saying Indian pilots and ground technicians get more rest than their foreign counterparts and that's why Indian skies are safer?

What about other factors which affect safety? I keep reading about near-misses, planea entering the runway juat as a flight is taking off or landing - do these not affect the safety?

And while we all are praising Air India for their pilots' training, how can we forget the training scams which came to light a few months ago?
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Old 2nd September 2013, 07:39   #184
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Hey ifly, you are doing a fantastic job here by answering our all questions. Don't be bogged down by people causing turbulence. :-)
Like someone has asked earlier, does the use of cellphone when plane is flying actually affect the electronics and other equipment on board? I'm asking this because so many times i've seen people not switching off their cellphones and inadvertently it has started ringing during flight. I was scared once when we were on final approach to Patna and having some turbulence when a gentleman's phone started ringing. He had the audacity to even answer his phone! I had complained to Indigo cabin crew as well as customer care. I understand and i'm in no way blaming the cabin crew or any staff of Indigo or for the matter, any airlines as they can only ask the people to switch off their mobile phones. I just want to know what i asked earlier and also if there is a way technically to stop its use. I've seen similar issue while flying Jet(BOM-DEL) ,Spicejet (HYD-IXJ) & Deccan (PAT-CCU).
Happy flying and please keep answering our questions whenever you get time. Recently I flew PAT-CCU in Indigo and my pilot was Mr Rajiv Pratap Rudy.

Mods- I'm unable to attach a snap here. I'm using the Android app on Galaxy Note 2 running 4.1.2

Last edited by BoneCollector : 2nd September 2013 at 07:59.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:05   #185
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

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Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Hey ifly, you are doing a fantastic job here by answering our all questions. Don't be bogged down by people causing turbulence. :-)

Thank you! It is appreciated

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Like someone has asked earlier, does the use of cellphone when plane is flying actually affect the electronics and other equipment on board? I'm asking this because so many times i've seen people not switching off their cellphones and inadvertently it has started ringing during flight.
Yes it does! I am glad you're someone who appreciates it and switches your phone off. Like I said before... Every electronic device has a magnetic field.



The airplane today, is an extremely modern and has a lot of aviation electronics (We like to call them avionics) which help achieve precision that could never be dreamt of (Like landing in New Delhi with just 75m of visibility)

Hence, the magnetic fields interfering with each other could potentially result both the instrument from not working in a desirable way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
He had the audacity to even answer his phone! I had complained to Indigo cabin crew as well as customer care. I understand and i'm in no way blaming the cabin crew or any staff of Indigo or for the matter, any airlines as they can only ask the people to switch off their mobile phones. I just want to know what i asked earlier and also if there is a way technically to stop its use. I've seen similar issue while flying Jet(BOM-DEL) ,Spicejet (HYD-IXJ) & Deccan (PAT-CCU).
Happy flying and please keep answering our questions whenever you get time. Recently I flew PAT-CCU in Indigo and my pilot was Mr Rajiv Pratap Rudy.
It isn't always easy to educate people on what's important. Especially the sciolists. The only way is when we have people like you who own up to their actions. Like an old saying, no snowflake ever held itself responsible for an avalanche... Not a lot of people realize that a small little action can have consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Happy flying and please keep answering our questions whenever you get time. Recently I flew PAT-CCU in Indigo and my pilot was Mr Rajiv Pratap Rudy.
Thank you again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
So you are saying Indian pilots and ground technicians get more rest than their foreign counterparts and that's why Indian skies are safer?

Correct! Just one of the many things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
What about other factors which affect safety? I keep reading about near-misses, planea entering the runway juat as a flight is taking off or landing - do these not affect the safety?

Do you know what these near misses are? Yes, that's what airplanes do... enter runways just as a flight is taking off and vacate it just before it does. It's a crowded place...

The safest way would be for the airplane to never leave the ground... But that's not what it was meant to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
And while we all are praising Air India for their pilots' training, how can we forget the training scams which came to light a few months ago?
I strongly believe that in opinion. What YOU chose to believe is entirely upto you.

If I may, what scams are you talking about by the way? Could you enlighten me? Without having the need to google it!

I am sure you've forgotten...
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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:13   #186
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Originally Posted by ifly View Post

Thank you! It is appreciated


If I may, what scams are you talking about by the way? Could you enlighten me? Without having the need to google it!

I am sure you've forgotten...
Thanks for the answers. As far as that scam is concerned, it had to do with some people in DGCA and fake flying license of some pilots who were not fit to fly but still had licences.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:21   #187
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Originally Posted by ifly View Post
I strongly believe that in opinion. What YOU chose to believe is entirely upto you.

If I may, what scams are you talking about by the way? Could you enlighten me? Without having the need to google it!

I am sure you've forgotten...
Those were the fake certificate thingies.
e.g http://avindia.blogspot.com/2011/03/read-this-dgca.html

Here is the kind of stuff I am worried truly about with Indian carriers:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...-incident.html
http://www.pprune.org/6249496-post180.html
http://www.pprune.org/5994187-post88.html

My only faith is in Boeing/AIrbus and their automation

it happens elsewhere too, but we are IMHO a class apart: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-13-years.html
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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:47   #188
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

BoneCollector and PhamilyMan... Have you heard of sportmen taking performance enhancement drugs? Does that mean all of them are in the same boat? Just curious.


You've faith in automation... I have faith in automatics as well... But the things that your posted from PPRuNe, the automatics did not recover the airplane. The pilot did

If the automatics did have that level of redundancy, think about it... The bean counters would have done away with us a long time ago.

Having said that, phamilyman these things aren't just privy to Indian aviation. Just like you can get a fake drivers license or a fake passport perhaps, why should this be any different?

Just my humble opinion is all.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 15:52   #189
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Quote:
Correct! Just one of the many things.

Do you know what these near misses are? Yes, that's what airplanes do... enter runways just as a flight is taking off and vacate it just before it does. It's a crowded place...

The safest way would be for the airplane to never leave the ground... But that's not what it was meant to do.

I strongly believe that in opinion. What YOU chose to believe is entirely upto you.

If I may, what scams are you talking about by the way? Could you enlighten me? Without having the need to google it!

I am sure you've forgotten...
Other than the additional resting tiime what other factors improve the air safety in India vis a vis Europe or the US?

Being a pilot are you seriously saying you aren' aware of the fake training certificate scams? And does this make our skies safer?

Surely if aircraft were safer on the ground Kingfisher would be the safest airline, don't you agree?

You might not also have heard the news that the Air Asia are trying to recruit pilots from Singapore airlines ovwr AI for their better safety record?
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Old 2nd September 2013, 17:12   #190
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No comments to whatever you said.


The link to the YouTube video I added isn't loading. Sharing the link again.

Last edited by Eddy : 2nd September 2013 at 17:18.
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Old 3rd September 2013, 03:45   #191
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@Ifly...Is your picture of the sunset over Gujarat also showing a part of the new sharklet equipped A320 airplanes IndiGo is acquiring?
Also Ifly if it is convinient, I want your view as a pilot on the Air India operations of the Boeing 787 after the battery fiasco.
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Old 3rd September 2013, 12:30   #192
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Originally Posted by DrPriyankT View Post
@Ifly...Is your picture of the sunset over Gujarat also showing a part of the new sharklet equipped A320 airplanes IndiGo is acquiring?
Also Ifly if it is convinient, I want your view as a pilot on the Air India operations of the Boeing 787 after the battery fiasco.
Yes, those are the sharklets infacts! We don't call them 'winglets' as the old airplanes already had winglets but not as big as it's boeing counterparts


The 787! It is perhaps the most exciting airplane of our times! Whenever a new airplane is launched, it has it's share of problems. And this holds true with every airplane.

It's a brilliant machine and I am sure she will overcome all these problems soon...
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Old 3rd September 2013, 12:58   #193
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If I am not wrong, there is dispute which is currently being arbitrated between Aviation Partners Boeing and Airbus right now, with regards to the shape of the winglets right? Airbus had the wingtip fences before it went in for the sharklets.
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Old 6th September 2013, 07:48   #194
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http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/18742...a-counterparts

Let's go back to the one point which hasn't been answered very convincingly. Jeroen raised this point and it was not answered. I asked the same and got to know it's the extra rest periods for the pilots and other staff.

So does anyone here have any facts or data, other than personal opinion and emotional speeches, to support the claim that the Indian skies are safer than Europe or the US?
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Old 6th September 2013, 12:44   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/18742...a-counterparts

Let's go back to the one point which hasn't been answered very convincingly. Jeroen raised this point and it was not answered. I asked the same and got to know it's the extra rest periods for the pilots and other staff.

So does anyone here have any facts or data, other than personal opinion and emotional speeches, to support the claim that the Indian skies are safer than Europe or the US?
IMHO opinion after following many aviation related blogs, I would say both yes and no.
1.The DGCA is going to be replaced by the Civil Aviation Authority on the lines of the US FAA. This will grant it many more teeth and financial autonomy. This was to happen this year, but Chiddu isn't releasing money for them due to the financial crunch. The DGCA already has many strict provisions for aviation safety which are respected worldwide, the problem is that there are not many inspectors and officials to enforce them. These inspectors in many cases need to be pilots or aeronautical engineers themselves and no pilot would want to work at sarkari salaries when he/she will be paid many times more when working at an airline. This is the reason many of their inspectors work part time as inspectors for DGCA(many of the, hired just recently for the recent ICAO and FAA inspection), which can create conflicts of interest among the inspectors. After granting financial autonomy, salaries can be bought on par with the industry and they can have full time inspectors.
2. Indian skies are being made safer with Satellite augmented navigation and better ground radars to have a better eye in the sky. Communications gear is also being upgraded by AAI for safe reasons. This will keep our skies safe.
3. Pilot training standards are very strict in India and the DGCA has good system for pilot authorization. Barring the few one off fake papers and flying hours violations, our standards are high as compared to Asian countries like Indonesia, who have a horrible safety rate with many of their Airlines banned from flying into the EU. Lion Air in Indonesia has a fleet of 150 planes with 550 on order, but the recent air safety violations, a few of which resulted in crashes with thankfully no lives lost, many of which were pointed out pilot training violations.
4. Luckily in India in our cockpits as far as I know we don't have the Korean type of hierarchy where the junior cannot point out to the senior he is making an error. This is exemplified by the recent Asiana Airlines crash at SFO. The Korean air safety record is way worse than ours.
5. With regards to airport and airplane security, the CISF is doing an awesome job and they maintain excellent security. They may be rude, but who cares as long as they keep our planes safe.
You can check the ICAO and DGCA websites to get a review of our ICAO audit. On Wikipedia you can check the aircrashes in India and cross compare them with the Indonesian, Filipino and the Korean crashes.
P.S iFly please can add or correct my points. You as a pilot know best.

Last edited by DrPriyankT : 6th September 2013 at 12:51.
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