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Old 27th September 2013, 14:04   #211
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Very interesting thread and very informative!

Can any of you gentlemen shed light on the ATR (Propeller) aircraft we fly between smaller cities? They are called turbo-props, I believe. I have read they too are jet engines but spin the propellers instead of directly providing thrust. Why use a jet turbine for that? I have also read somewhere their speed is limited because the speed at which the propellers spin can't exceed the speed of sound, or something to that effect.
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Old 27th September 2013, 14:26   #212
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Originally Posted by vvijay View Post
Why is London on both 3rd and 36th? I see two city codes, does that mean they are two airports located at different places?
There are more than 2 airports in London, No. 3 is Heathrow (LHR) and No. 36 is Gatwick (LGW).
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Old 27th September 2013, 14:59   #213
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Not just London, you can see Tokyo (NRT and HND) and New York (EWR and JFK) also in the same list.
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If you are of a nervous disposition when it comes to flying, you might not want to click on these links. Because there is a lot of stuff going on
You can also browse the website of the DGCA which has some interesting air accident summaries.

http://www.dgca.nic.in/accident/repo...ts_acc_rep.htm

Incident No 2 in particular is very interesting considering that it received so little publicity, especially the findings of the report.

Last edited by TKMCE : 27th September 2013 at 15:11.
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Old 28th September 2013, 02:26   #214
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Originally Posted by vvijay View Post
Why is London on both 3rd and 36th? I see two city codes, does that mean they are two airports located at different places?
Yes, actually London has four different airports. Mentioned on 3rd is Heathrow and on 36th Gatwick. Heathrow is more or less west of London and Gatwick South west. The three letters you see are IATA codes. The other two airports are City airport and Stansted. Both to small to show up in this survey.

London Heathrow is a very busy airport and so is Gatwick. I know them intimately as a passenger. For years we lived in Brighton and most of my travel was from Gatwick. Next week I'm travelling to the USA, Delhi to London Heathrow, Dallas and Santa Fe. Coming back I have a 5 hour stop over at Heathrow. If you have to have a five hour stopover in Europe, go for Heathrow or Amsterdam! Great terminals with excellent shopping, restaurants, bars entertainment etc.

City airport is right smack in the middle of London, very convenient if you need to be in the city. Lots of turbo prop flying to City Airport, see below.
Stansted is North of London and nobodies likes to travel there, it is a stupid airport. We own a house in Suffolk and occasionally we fly from Stansted as it is the nearest airport, but I always dread it.

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Very interesting thread and very informative!

Can any of you gentlemen shed light on the ATR (Propeller) aircraft we fly between smaller cities? They are called turbo-props, I believe. I have read they too are jet engines but spin the propellers instead of directly providing thrust. Why use a jet turbine for that? I have also read somewhere their speed is limited because the speed at which the propellers spin can't exceed the speed of sound, or something to that effect.
Turbo props are indeed jet engines that spin, through a gear box, a propellor. They are very efficient on relative short hops.

They also require shorter take-off and landing distances then jets. Partly due to the propellor wash over the wings. It also has a higher thrust efficiency. Which means it gets to its cruise altitude quicker, but it cruises considerably slower then your typical jet engine powered plane.

So it's really the operational requirements that dictate what type of plane is most suitable, but rule of thumb, short hops up to 60 minutes, the turbo prop is a very efficient proposition.

Here's some more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop

It also provide some information on the limitations of propellors. In essence, propellors start loosing efficiency the tips of the blades start approaching speed of sound. It also introduces all sort of other effects that would need to be taken into consideration for its design, such as shock waves. Very similar to designing a wing suitable for speeds above sound speed.

For helicopter blades its the same. But as they are even more lengthy then propellor blades, the tip of the blades will reach sound of speed at even lower RPM's. One of the reason helicopter don't fly as fast as planes. Although I think I read somewhere that certain helicopters have blades that pass through the sound barrier these days.

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Old 15th October 2013, 20:06   #215
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Just came across this amazing story on Air India. Not directly related to flight safety, but still makes you wonder how its possible

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/1...ight-sandwich/
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Old 17th October 2013, 17:05   #216
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This one is definitely related to the "safe skies of India'. In fact bits and pieces appear to be falling off Air India's Boeing Dreamliner:

http://avherald.com/h?article=469fc4ea&opt=0

Luckily, no harm done. Still, weird incident

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Old 17th October 2013, 18:14   #217
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Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

^ My first thought on seeing that news was, where did that huge piece of metal fall? Delhi - Bangalore flight would be passing over land for the entire duration, good that it did not fall on someones head.
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Old 17th October 2013, 18:36   #218
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^ My first thought on seeing that news was, where did that huge piece of metal fall? Delhi - Bangalore flight would be passing over land for the entire duration, good that it did not fall on someones head.
I agree. Everybody's falling over one another to tell us the passenger were at no risk. But those of us on the ground were at risk. This was one huge panel!

Also, the passengers might not have been at risk, the pilots never noticed a thing. Still, it could have been very different. Bits and pieces falling of planes have a nasty way of hitting the plane first, no way of telling what damage could be done. Looks like they got lucky this time and the panel broke and fell away cleanly and whatever was inside did not get damaged by being exposed to the lements. Thats just luck, nothing to do with safety.

Different panel, could have been a whole different matter. The DGCA is looking into it and I can imagine that they will want to see evidennce that this is totally a one off, If not, there will be serious issues. You cant have a plane in the sky of which you are not certain bits will fall off.

Jeroen

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Old 17th October 2013, 18:50   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Jeroen;
Bits and pieces falling of planes have a nasty way of hitting the plane first, no way of telling what damage could be done. Looks like they got lucky this time and the panel broke and fell away cleanly and whatever was inside did not get damaged by being exposed to the lements.
n
Yes, if this is not a one off case dreamliners are going to have another rough spell.
Also I was not knowing that cables and what all hidden behind the panels can survive the elements without any issues. As per news report once New panel was flown in plane took off without any other repairs.
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Old 17th October 2013, 20:27   #220
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Yes, if this is not a one off case dreamliners are going to have another rough spell.
Also I was not knowing that cables and what all hidden behind the panels can survive the elements without any issues. As per news report once New panel was flown in plane took off without any other repairs.
Just found this: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...017-2vo35.html

Looks like it felt within the parameter of Bangalore airport. So, in theory at least it could have hit a few passengers, but admittedly not the passenger inside the Dreamliner.

The say "It was the mid-underwing-to-body fairing located on the belly of the airplane on the right side. The part "provides a more aerodynamic surface in flight

So it did not affect the pressurization. Which means that whatever is behind can withstand the temperature and low pressure. But of course, with the panel gone it also will have to withstand some additional mechanical forces as the wind/air will tear around freely. Apparently some AC equipment behind them.

On another note:

Some far more (safety) issues being raised:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/v...w/24207899.cms

Actually, there are several Air India video's on the above page. None of them inspiring much confidence, I must admit.

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Old 17th October 2013, 20:36   #221
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Quote:
Yes, if this is not a one off case dreamliners are going to have another rough spell.
Also I was not knowing that cables and what all hidden behind the panels can survive the elements without any issues. As per news report once New panel was flown in plane took off without any other repairs.
I was on that flight from Bangalore to Delhi and it left at 5.30 pm that day instead of the scheduled 10.30 am.

Must say that the AI staff handled the situation nicely with scores of agitated and angry passengers. They tried all possible ways of helping passengers -- short of arranging them to travel in another flight, as almost all flights that day were full.

Coming back to the dream liner, it was perfect on the way back and we all had a nice flight.

Of course, no body from AI told the passengers that some part had fallen off. They just said that some part needs replacement and it needs to be flown from Delhi :-)

Last edited by khan_sultan : 17th October 2013 at 20:37.
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Old 21st October 2013, 21:20   #222
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post

I was on that flight from Bangalore to Delhi and it left at 5.30 pm that day instead of the scheduled 10.30 am.

Must say that the AI staff handled the situation nicely with scores of agitated and angry passengers. They tried all possible ways of helping passengers -- short of arranging them to travel in another flight, as almost all flights that day were full.

Coming back to the dream liner, it was perfect on the way back and we all had a nice flight.

Of course, no body from AI told the passengers that some part had fallen off. They just said that some part needs replacement and it needs to be flown from Delhi :-)
Thanks for sharing that insight. Interesting to hear how AI dealt with it. Question remains, after learning that a part fell off, do you feel the way AI dealt and communicated with this incident was trust worthy or doyou feel they should have told you a little more?

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Old 21st October 2013, 21:37   #223
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I don't feel AI should have told the passengers about the part falling. If they feel that the incident is not major and a mere replacement of the part will suffice without compromising the safety then I trust them. Telling the passengers about this is going to increase the anxiety levels unnecessarily and wouldn't serve any purpose. Someone like my mother wouldn't even dare to board the flight after that, AI or anyother.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 08:12   #224
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I don't feel AI should have told the passengers about the part falling. If they feel that the incident is not major and a mere replacement of the part will suffice without compromising the safety then I trust them. Telling the passengers about this is going to increase the anxiety levels unnecessarily and wouldn't serve any purpose. Someone like my mother wouldn't even dare to board the flight after that, AI or anyother.
Thanks. It's probably an appropiate way of dealing with it. Although I can imagine there must have been people that felt cheated afterwards. Tough call.

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Old 18th November 2013, 10:29   #225
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Over the last thirty years I must have flown millions of miles, mostly as passenger though. I've experienced various mishaps, but today was a new experience:

Jet Airways 9W322 Delhi to Mumbai. Boeing 737-800.

About 20-30 minutes into the flight, I noticed we started a pretty sharp descent and turn. When I looked out, the speed brakes were partly deployed. It was not a full blown emergency descent I think, but we were descenting fairly rapidly.

No announcement were made untill about 30 minutes later. It was very obvious that all passengers were aware, and everybody was pinging the flight attendants. At long last the captain came out on the PA and announced that due to a technical issue we were returning to Delhi.

No further explanation or anything! No comforting words, that everything is still safe etc. etc. Only we have a technical issues and are returning to Delhi.

What was remarkable that we kept descending, very gradually but continuously. When we were still at least 40-50 miles out we were probably at only 1500 feet above ground. It was one long, very shallow approach. Landing was normal and we taxied to a gate. I have never flown that long that low in a commercial jet.

The captain came on the PA again and told us they lost cabin pressure and that was the reason to return to Delhi.

It took another 20 minutes before they decided to let us off the plane. All they told us was to contact ground staff. Nothing else!

For those familiar with Delhi International airport, you have to make your way out of the airport. Go up to departure and find the JetAirway ticket office. Only way to talk to ground staff. By then it was too late for us and we decided to stay in Delhi and do our Mumbai visit some other time.

I thought both the cockpit and cabin crew did not handle the situation well at all. There was virtually no communication, and it was very obvious that something was wrong.

Even back at the gate at Delhi, there was no staff at hand to direct passengers or to help out. Everybody was just left to fend for themselves and figure out what to do and how to go about it.

Very poor performance, very customer unfriendly.

I still wonder if there was more than just lost cabin pressure. That very long very low flight was remarkable to say the very least.

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