Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd June 2015, 13:25   #421
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 257
Thanked: 282 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

I don't know if this is the best place to post this, but I could not find a dedicated thread where this would fit. Mods, please move elsewhere if you think it is more appropriate.

Just read this article today on Bloomberg. Not sure whether this represents a real risk factor or an exaggerated view of the situation on the ground. I am sure the pilots will be able to comment better on this.

http://bloom.bg/1K5w2Cp

Quote:
You Can Get a Pilot License in India After Just 35 Minutes in Air

Anupam Verma has a certificate that shows he has flown an aircraft for 360 hours. He says he got it after sitting in the co-pilot’s seat for just 35 minutes.

He’s one of dozens of pilots in the country who obtained certificates showing inflated flying hours and ground training, according to court documents and interviews with pilots, regulators and industry analysts. The son of a poor farmer, Verma was given a 2.8 million-rupee ($44,000) subsidy by the Indian government to learn to fly a commercial jet.
“What if I was flying and had an emergency? I wouldn’t even know how or where to land,” Verma, 25, said in an interview. “We’d kill not only the passengers, but we might crash in a village and kill even more people.”
The spotlight on aviation safety has swung from aircraft reliability to pilot reliability in the past few years after a series of disasters that were thought to be either deliberate acts of destruction, or the result of inadequate training. The latest, in March, killed 150 people when Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appears to have locked his captain out of the cockpit and flown his jet into a mountain.

Last year, a Malaysia Airlines jet with 239 on board mysteriously changed course en-route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur and headed off for thousands of kilometers into the Indian Ocean. The plane still hasn’t been found and the cause of the disaster remains unknown.

Concern about the quality of India’s pilots has been building over the past decade as a proliferation of budget airlines created demand for hundreds of new pilots. In 2011, the government reviewed the licenses of all 4,000-plus airline pilots in the country, as police investigated at least 18 people suspected of using forged documents to win promotions or certification. The findings of the review were not made public.

“The fudging of log books is rampant both in airlines and in flying clubs,” said Mohan Ranganathan, a former commercial pilot and aviation safety consultant based in Chennai. He said the 2011 audit found violations in most flying clubs in the country. “Hours were logged with aircraft not even in airworthy condition. One aircraft had no engines but several hundred hours were logged.”

Asked about the continued use of fake certificates, India’s Director General of Civil Aviation, M. Sathiyavathy, said on April 24 the directorate would be conducting a new audit that would require the “recertification of all the flying schools.”

Fake Flying

Over logging has been common practice in India since the 1960s, according to a retired commander who has flown in India for over 40 years and asked not to be named because the information was confidential. With the increase in budget airlines the typical number of faked hours rose from about 20 hours to a peak of as much as 150, he said.

He said airlines can soon tell if a pilot has faked certificates because they don’t have basic skills, but the carrier can’t fire them because they have DGCA licenses. To bring them up to scratch, airlines have to do expensive corrective training, he said.

Of India’s seven major airlines, Tata SIA Airlines Ltd.’s Vistara said it is aware of over logging, but tests all new pilots and provides its own training. SpiceJet Ltd. said it only hires from prestigious air schools and tests and trains all new pilots. IndiGo, Air India Ltd., Jet Airways India Ltd. and AirAsia India Ltd. didn’t respond to e-mails and phone calls about the issue. Go Airlines India Pvt. Ltd. declined to comment.

The rise of budget carriers not only increased demand for pilots, it also sparked a price war that wiped out the industry’s profit. India’s carriers have lost $10 billion in the past seven years as they offered base fares as low as 1 rupee (2 cents). That works out as a loss of about $22 for each passenger that stepped on board during the period, according to the Sydney-based CAPA Centre for Aviation.

Yet, for people like Verma, the award of a government grant to learn to fly is a chance to escape poverty. His father supports his family of seven by selling vegetables grown on a plot of land half the size of a football field. Most of his siblings only work part-time to supplement the income.

Yash Air

Verma enrolled in December 2009 at Yash Air, a flying school in the city of Indore, halfway between Mumbai and Delhi. On his first day, he said he was taken on a 35-minute “air-experience” flight to give him a feel of what it was like to be in a plane. Moments after the aircraft landed, he was handed a certificate of flying for 360 hours, he said in an interview on June 1. He said he was told he will do the actual flying later during the course, but that he eventually flew for just 3 hours at the school.

When Verma and other trainee pilots realized they weren’t going to gain the necessary flying experience, they complained to the school and Verma sued for return of the money he paid. The Allahabad High Court ordered that his fees be returned, according to a court order in February this year.
“Several discrepancies have been noticed with regard to over logging of flight details, flight authorization, maintenance of various log books and fuel consumption registers,” according to a DGCA enquiry into the complaints about Yash Air, dated June 6, 2014, a copy of which was given to Bloomberg News.

On May 19, 2010, a qualified pilot from Yash Air took a trainee pilot on a “joy ride” in a Cessna-152 and hit a power line, according to the DGCA’s final report into the accident. The two-seater, single-engined trainer crashed into a dry river bed, splitting into five pieces and killing the men. They were both about 20 years old, according to the report, dated Dec. 17, 2010.

The owner and chief trainer at the school, Yash Raj Tongia, was appointed as the DGCA’s director of flying and training in 2011, even though his flying skills were “below standard,” the June 2014 DGCA report said.

Court Ruling

Yash Air changed its name to Centaur Aviation Academy Pvt. Ltd. after the allegations were made in 2010, according to the Allahabad High Court. Yash Air issued certificates to its students without conducting ground classes and flying training, the court said in December 2014.
Attempts to get the flying school or Tongia to comment on Verma’s claims were unsuccessful. Calls to Tongia’s mobile phone number listed in the court documents were unanswered. Kshemendra Shukla, one of the lawyers who represents Yash Air, said he doesn’t have any contact number for Tongia. He didn’t respond to questions concerning Yash Air.

Telephone numbers for Yash Air and Centaur Aviation were no longer in service. The DGCA said Centaur Aviation’s approval remains suspended.

Even with the minimum 200 hours mandated by the Indian government, pilots would be unlikely to have experienced all of the weather and other conditions they’re likely to meet flying a commercial jet, said Neil Hansford, an aviation consultant, who has worked in the industry in Asia, Europe and his home country, Australia since 1984.

Airlines should hire pilots with at least 1,000 hours of flying time and preferably match the 1,500 hours mandated by Qantas Airways Ltd., he said. Pilots in countries like Australia often gain years of experience in general aviation -- delivering mail to remote areas, ferrying mine workers or in the Royal Flying Doctor Service -- before flying jetliners.
That will test a pilot in a variety of conditions, so “when the chips are down, they still remember the basics of stick-and-rudder flying,” Hansford said. “The wrong time to be challenged is when you have 300 people behind you.”

Budget Carriers

For budget airlines in Asia, that’s often not an option. Singapore’s Tiger Airways Holding Ltd. said it hires holders of multi-crew or commercial pilot licenses with about 200 flying hours and then gives them further training. Seoul-based Asiana Airlines Inc. looks for at least 300 hours, said spokesman Daewoong Im. “Realistically, it’s difficult to get a non-military person with more than 300 flying hours,” he said.

Carriers also use simulators and other ground training to improve pilots’ experience.

In India, many private Indian flying schools began as clubs that trained pilots without formal regulations. While schools in the U.S. use a Hobbs Meter, which automatically logs flight times and other data for training aircraft, Some Indian schools still enter flight times by hand, making it easier to falsify data. Indian flying academies that falsify data run cars on aviation fuel to avoid a mismatch between flight times and fuel consumption, said three people who have worked directly with flying schools in the country.

India’s government has made successive efforts to stamp out false documentation and improve safety in the industry. After the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration downgraded India’s safety rating in 2014 on concerns over insufficient manpower, India hired more safety inspectors and carried out a fresh audit of its airlines. The FAA restored India to its top safety tier in April.

Fewer Accidents

Since 2000, the number of fatal aviation accidents in India has declined, data from Aviation Safety Network show. The last major airline disaster was in 2010, when an Air India Express plane overshot the runway in the city of Mangalore and burst into flames, killing 158 people.
India is putting in “a lot of effort” to ensure safety of airline passengers and student pilots, civil aviation chief Sathiyavathy told reporters on April 24. The DGCA didn’t respond to phone calls and text messages asking for comment on the issue of fake certificates.

That hasn’t stopped under-trained pilots applying for jobs with the nation’s biggest airlines. One qualified pilot, who asked not to be named because it may harm his career, said he completed fewer than 120 of the 200 hours his certificates say he has done. He said he is in the process of applying to fly for IndiGo, the nation’s biggest carrier.

Another pilot, who said his certificates showed an inflated number of hours for solo flights, applied to Air India.

Neither of the two pilots has been hired by the airlines.

As for Verma, he said he passed the entrance exam to the government-owned Indira Gandhi Rashtriya Uran Akademi in Uttar Pradesh. He’s looking forward to finally learning to fly this year.

Last edited by reverse_gear : 2nd June 2015 at 13:28.
reverse_gear is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2015, 18:24   #422
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,004
Thanked: 2,025 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_gear View Post
I don't know if this is the best place to post this, but I could not find a dedicated thread where this would fit. Mods, please move elsewhere if you think it is more appropriate.

http://bloom.bg/1K5w2Cp
A fine case of yellow journalism, IMO, not worthy of spending the bandwidth and time to read.
apachelongbow is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2015, 18:57   #423
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 6,237 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by reverse_gear View Post
Just read this article today on Bloomberg. Not sure whether this represents a real risk factor or an exaggerated view of the situation on the ground. I am sure the pilots will be able to comment better on this.
Thanks for posting. I think it actually very relevant! Early on in this thread when discussing how safe the Indian Skies actually are, a member brought up this very same topic.

We have many examples of let's call it "fraudulent behaviour" in one form of the other in multiple threads on this very forum. No offense, but after having lived and worked in India for three years, I experience it in just about every facet of India Society at large. So it is very relevant how the aviation industry deals with it. To put it differently, it would be very odd if the Indian aviation industry would not have to deal with it?

I have some of my own thoughts around this, but it would be great to hear from the Indian aviation industry what they are experiencing and or seeing.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is highly likely that people can fake hours flown. However, I find it very unlikely that somebody with no or little experience and more or less only fakes hours can make it into the cockpit of a commercial airliner. He or she would fail the very first proficiency test. If such a person does make it into the cockpit, things are a whole lot worse, because then there is also a breakdown in the verification/proficiency testing of the respective airlines.

I'm really not that familiar with Indian rules and regulations pertaining to flight time and qualifications. Here is a good informative wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_pilot_license click also on ATP.

When I was flying in the USA you could still get your ATP with only 250 hours. The FAA increased that to 1500 hours recently. It was a highly controversial move for two reasons.

In the USA most commercial pilots used to rise through the ranks so to speak. they would get their PPL, an IFR rating, commercial license, ATP do a few hundred hours of flight instruction, join a local/regional carrier etc. By the time they would apply for the big commercial jetliners most would have easily logged up 3-6000 hours. Applying with anything less, would not be useful as most other applicants would have logged these sort of hours. I do believe the USA was/is pretty unique in this respect, because it has so many small, local and regional carriers. So good training ground.

The other reason for it being controversial is the fact that there is simply no correlation between aviation accidents/incidents and (relative) low flight time of the pilots involved. Check the aviation accident data bases and you will be hard pressed to find accidents with very low flight time pilots. In fact, just about all big aviation disasters in the last decade had pilots with plenty of hours.

In fact the FAA did an in-depth study on accidents in General Aviation and found no correlation whatsoever between fatal accidents and respective pilot flying time. To put it differently, statistically somebody who just completed and passed her PPL check with maybe 50 hours has the identical statistical chance of having a fatal accident as a GA pilot with 10.000 hours.

What the FAA found was not a lack a basic piloting (i.e. stick and rudder) skills but attitude towards safety and appropriate decision making are the key. Hence the FAA Wings program was kicked into life. By now the results are beginning to show and pilots participating in the Wings program have a 50% less likelihood of having a fatal accident.

So the number of hours is not necessarily the only things that matters. Although in today's aviation a lot of it is related to your flight time. For instance, whether you a current to fly a particular plane, a particular approach, a night landing might depend on how often you have done such manoeuvres in the previous period.

That's where your pilot's logbook comes in. And as far I'm aware all logbook require manual entry of the relevant information.

The article mentions Hobbs meter that automatically log flight time?? A hobbs meter is a pretty simple instrument. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbs_meter

It just measures the time the electrical system are powered and or the engine is switched on. The pilot still needs to enter the relevant times and other data into his/her logbook.

On commercial jetliners, systems such as ACARS can log the all import off block, on block time. But your log book also needs to show for instance whether you were flying as PIC (pilot in command), what sort of flight, approaches etc.

Also, in many cases, simulator time can be logged as flight time.

The FAA doesn't stipulate what information needs to put in your logbook, nor does it prescribe the format. But you have to ensure you keep the relevant data in such a way that you can prove for instance that you are current. I.e. say you have a PPL (Private Pilot License). In order to carry (non paying) passengers you must have made at least three take offs and landings in the preceding 90 days.

So you must have entered the relevant data in your log that shows you have.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2015, 19:12   #424
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,004
Thanked: 2,025 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Lets get this thread back on the topic which is a review on the Airbus A320 and not political situations, licensing requirements or otherwise. I believe that discussion on air safety and ancillaries should deserve a separate thread or may be some other kind of forum, not this one. Thanks
apachelongbow is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2015, 08:14   #425
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 6,237 Times
Default

Actually, although this thread started as a review of the Airbus 320 probably 80% of its content is more about all sort of other aviation related topics. Maybe it could be split into Airbus specific (ie the original thread) and something called general aviation. Lots of different topics have come across in this thread with interest from quite a few members.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 3rd June 2015 at 08:35.
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2015, 11:52   #426
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,004
Thanked: 2,025 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

I agree... may be mods can split this thread into Airbus specific and a general aviation thread.
Coming back to the Airbus, the trend world over is to go electronic, that means all paper charts, procedures and documentation be replaced by smart tablets carrying all information. This paper less cockpit saves at-least 60-70kgs per flight in the 320, leading to substantial fuel savings on the fleet, over time.
However I wonder what will be the backup in case the fleet suffers from catastrophic electronic flight bag failure? As it happened sometime to a US based carrier, where in all flights were grounded for half a day when they got a bug in their ipad updates leading to a crash of all EFB.
Moving on from this, there is also a growing concern on possible electronic hacking of airplanes, especially the advanced ones like 787 and future versions of the 320, 350 and so on. There is a case going on against a person in US about his alleged ability to hack and control a US based aircraft from ground!!
As of today, almost all parameters of the aircraft are transmitted to ground based centers run by organizations, which are utilized by air carriers to track the flight, measure in flight parameters, especially related to engines, hydraulics and flight controls. Since the data is only send out from the aircraft to ground, luckily there is no reverse flow of data, hacking seems impossible, I am not sure of future versions though
apachelongbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2015, 13:55   #427
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,256
Thanked: 4,984 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

I saw a cockpit video of an A320 in which upon touch down, the pitch trim wheel rotates continuously during the landing roll. Any idea what exactly happened here? How does the trim matter after touch down?
audioholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2015, 13:57   #428
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 6,237 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
However I wonder what will be the backup in case the fleet suffers from catastrophic electronic flight bag failure? As it happened sometime to a US based carrier, where in all flights were grounded for half a day when they got a bug in their ipad updates leading to a crash of all EFB.
Moving on from this, there is also a growing concern on possible electronic hacking of airplanes, especially the advanced ones like 787 and future versions of the 320, 350 and so on. There is a case going on against a person in US about his alleged ability to hack and control a US based aircraft from ground!!
As of today, almost all parameters of the aircraft are transmitted to ground based centers run by organizations, which are utilized by air carriers to track the flight, measure in flight parameters, especially related to engines, hydraulics and flight controls. Since the data is only send out from the aircraft to ground, luckily there is no reverse flow of data, hacking seems impossible, I am not sure of future versions though
I've seen several cases reported where cockpit crews with multiple EFBs still found them in situation where all 3-4 EFBs failed at the same time. (Lufthansa I believe, obviously full compliance with Murphy's law there!)

The potential hacking is indeed a growing concern. I've read about this latest incident. This guys basicly plugged in his laptap via an ethernet cable into the onboard entertainment system. As far as I understand talking to some of my US avianoic expert friends there isn't much he could have done, at worst he might have been able to put a few messages on the EICAS.

However, it is a fact that the inflight entertainment and WiFi system on most modern aircraft are not physically separated from the aircraft system. To me that seems a huge design mistake. You can put in as many firewalls and other electronic trickery in place, the only fully guaranteed way of avoiding any type of hack is to have no physical and logical connection in the first place.

There is already data being streamed from the ground to the plane. For instance all clearance on the North Atlantic Track are handled fully digitized, rather then through voice channels. I would have to check but I'm pretty sure that ACARS can upload some parameters as well.

Having said that, it is a very big step to be able to interfere with the actual aircraft operations to the point where it would affect a safe flight.

I'm sure we will hear more and more on this topic in the years to come.
On a slightly different scale, it is and or will happen with many other devices as more and more things get connected. Think about the connected car for instance. Same thing, somebody will hack it.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2015, 14:03   #429
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,004
Thanked: 2,025 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
I saw a cockpit video of an A320 in which upon touch down, the pitch trim wheel rotates continuously during the landing roll. Any idea what exactly happened here? How does the trim matter after touch down?
The A320 is a fly by wire aircraft with automatic pitch trim and load protection in the flight envelope. What it means is, unless there is a catastrophic failure, the aircraft keeps automatically trimming itself based on its center of gravity.
It also means the pilot can pitch the aircraft full back stick (up) or full down to perform an escape maneuver (example tcas or terrain) and the plane will adjust its trim/pitch accordingly to keep the aircraft within a load limit of 1 g.
That is a beautiful concept intended to keep the flying simple, and when the aircraft lands, the pitch trim is set to zero (meaning the horizontal stabilizer at the tailplane is trimmed to zero), hence you see the wheel spinning like mad. Next time you ever board the 320 from the rear door, observe the rear tail plane, it will be centered around the zero marking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
The potential hacking is indeed a growing concern. I've read about this latest incident. This guys basicly plugged in his laptap via an ethernet cable into the onboard entertainment system. As far as I understand talking to some of my US avianoic expert friends there isn't much he could have done, at worst he might have been able to put a few messages on the EICAS.

However, it is a fact that the inflight entertainment and WiFi system on most modern aircraft are not physically separated from the aircraft system. To me that seems a huge design mistake. You can put in as many firewalls and other electronic trickery in place, the only fully guaranteed way of avoiding any type of hack is to have no physical and logical connection in the first place.
Interesting concept. The in flight entertainment, cabin lighting, PA and incidentally cargo and lavatory fire and smoke alarm are bundled together in a subsystem in the A320. So if the inflight system can be hacked (I hope not), and the terrorist succeeds in switching on a cargo fire or smoke alarm, he can force the jet down to the nearest airfield (if the inflight can provide the hacker with his position on the moving map), in this case an airfield suitable to the terrorists interests.
I believe that this kind of hacking is not possible, even a simple car's ECU cannot be programmed to switch on/off headlights or wipers, using hacking, so its difficult to imagine hacking an aircraft.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 3rd June 2015 at 19:11. Reason: Consecutive posts merged. Please use the 30 minute edit window to add/edit your posts.
apachelongbow is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2015, 14:34   #430
BHPian
 
mohammedismail's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 428
Thanked: 1,093 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Might be a very noob question but pardon me.

I have seen these aircrafts as in the below pic in the UK, they emit a lot of smoke but India we hardly see any aircraft emitting smoke like this(or at least I haven't seen). Are these commercial aircrafts? Can someone throw some light on this?
Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review-img_20150611_081508.jpg
mohammedismail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2015, 15:32   #431
Senior - BHPian
 
silversteed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PGT//BLR//STR
Posts: 1,990
Thanked: 1,408 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammedismail View Post
I have seen these aircrafts as in the below pic in the UK, they emit a lot of smoke but India we hardly see any aircraft emitting smoke like this(or at least I haven't seen). Are these commercial aircrafts? Can someone throw some light on this?
I used to wonder too, until a very knowledgeable gentleman explained what's happening there. And here's a crisp explanation at this link:
Quote:
Jets leave white trails, or contrails, in their wakes for the same reason you can sometimes see your breath. The hot, humid exhaust from jet engines mixes with the atmosphere, which at high altitude is of much lower vapor pressure and temperature than the exhaust gas. The water vapor contained in the jet exhaust condenses and may freeze, and this mixing process forms a cloud very similar to the one your hot breath makes on a cold day.
Jet engine exhaust contains carbon dioxide, oxides of sulfur and nitrogen, unburned fuel, soot and metal particles, as well as water vapor. The soot provides condensation sites for the water vapor. Any particles present in the air provide additional sites.
silversteed is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2015, 15:32   #432
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,256
Thanked: 4,984 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammedismail View Post
Might be a very noob question but pardon me.

I have seen these aircrafts as in the below pic in the UK, they emit a lot of smoke but India we hardly see any aircraft emitting smoke like this(or at least I haven't seen). Are these commercial aircrafts? Can someone throw some light on this?
Attachment 1380768
Those are contrails left by aircraft at cruise altitudes and is more prominently seen in colder temperatures. You can see them here in India if you happen to track an aircraft at a high altitude.
audioholic is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2015, 11:55   #433
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 6,237 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Those are contrails left by aircraft at cruise altitudes and is more prominently seen in colder temperatures. You can see them here in India if you happen to track an aircraft at a high altitude.
Of course, for those of us with a 'solid background in conspiracy' there might well be a very different explanation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtr...spiracy_theory

On a more serious note, I just came across this one"

http://avherald.com/h?article=487e0947&opt=0

There is not much information to go by, but it seems multiple tyres burst to the extend where the runway was damaged. I can imagine tyres bursting due to hard (overweight?) landing, excess speed etc.

But from what I know on how these planes/gear/tyres get certified it has to be pretty dramatic before you actually get multiple bursts. I thought with normal landing weight, any planes should be able to be stopped at maximum braking, stand still for several minutes and then be able to move under own power again. Couple of pretty spectacular video's on these test can be found on youtube.

Ohter thoughs are maybe a fault in the brake system, worn tyres perhaps?
Any thoughts/comments

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2015, 12:47   #434
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,256
Thanked: 4,984 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
There is not much information to go by, but it seems multiple tyres burst to the extend where the runway was damaged. I can imagine tyres bursting due to hard (overweight?) landing, excess speed etc.

But from what I know on how these planes/gear/tyres get certified it has to be pretty dramatic before you actually get multiple bursts. I thought with normal landing weight, any planes should be able to be stopped at maximum braking, stand still for several minutes and then be able to move under own power again. Couple of pretty spectacular video's on these test can be found on youtube.

Quite surprising considering that the Air India 320s(old ones) have a one of a kind four wheeled main landing gear. This should be able to bear more load than a regular A320 with two wheeled MLG. In addition to this the braking load per wheel would be reduced. If in spite of it the aircraft suffers multiple Tyre bursts, the matter is quite serious.

Leaving the assumption that the MLG tyres burst, did the nose gear tyres burst?
audioholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2015, 14:03   #435
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,068
Thanked: 6,237 Times
Default Re: Airbus A320 Long-Term, 3 Million KMs Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Quite surprising considering that the Air India 320s(old ones) have a one of a kind four wheeled main landing gear. This should be able to bear more load than a regular A320 with two wheeled MLG. In addition to this the braking load per wheel would be reduced. If in spite of it the aircraft suffers multiple Tyre bursts, the matter is quite serious.

Leaving the assumption that the MLG tyres burst, did the nose gear tyres burst?
I dont know. Not many incident get reported on aviation harald with respect to Indian carriers. And when they do there are very few comments. If you check the other messages, you will find a lot of people chipping in with knowledge of the actual incident/accident. As usual some idiots, but there are still a lot of industry people active on this forum.

Even on forums such as PRune Indian related posts, and or Indian posters are in the minority.

Bottom line, I dont have any more information than what is shown in the article.

But my thinking is similar to yours, must have been something extrodinary to have this result.

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Germanwings Airbus A320 with 150 people onboard crashes in the French Alps RSR Shifting gears 119 2nd April 2017 22:11
Skoda Laura - Long-term (14,000 Kms) ownership Review! anandbhat Long-Term Ownership Reviews 20 1st March 2013 09:39
Iceberg at 22000 kms - Long term review of GP MJD 75 kailashnj Long-Term Ownership Reviews 9 22nd February 2012 20:09
Short Term vs Long Term Ownership, New Car vs Used Car Ownership architect The Indian Car Scene 10 9th May 2008 11:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:33.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks