Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th October 2013, 15:58   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,573
Thanked: 814 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

I remember a few years ago Honda wanted to develop a 3 wheeler with the engine from Activa/Eterno. Not sure how they would have done that.

Got similar source ! I distinctly remember this mentioned in TOI and other newspapers also
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/hond...a_rickshaw.asp

Last edited by srishiva : 8th October 2013 at 16:01.
srishiva is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2013, 16:48   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 509
Thanked: 381 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post

But the three wheeler segment shows no Japanese interest, as of now.

What could be the reasons?
When you launch a product , you tend to deal with a particular clientele , may be Honda does not want to deal with ricksha wallas . Honda probably wants a niche clientele . They took their own time to bring a diesel car to India . AFAIK they considered diesel quality in India to be quite inferior . Looking at how our auto wallas maintain their drives , it may not be worth taking the risk to introduce a cheap engine and spare parts.

OT: I think our auto wallas are very much happy pasting a "HANDA 4X4" sticker all over their autos
girimajiananth is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2013, 20:31   #18
BHPian
 
Samar117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 85
Thanked: 484 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

I would agree with all those who have in many words questioned the safety of such three wheeled contraptions and whether they are safe for the passengers and indeed the other people on the road.

On a more lighter note, perhaps I for one am biased against them.. ( Blame Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear ). As many will recognize what I'm talking about

But yes indeed it seems very puzzling that they haven't tapped into this market. Maybe they think that cheaper 4 wheelers will ultimately and in a short duration of time, replace such vehicles.
Samar117 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2013, 21:36   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
So its without roof and so further more profits. Is it so?
Actually, I said doors. Auto does have a roof doesn't it? Its vinyl so its cheaper to make than a Nano's roof. Rajiv Bajaj has himself said that the 3w is a cash cow in terms of profits.

Quote:
but what about the BOM cost, conversion cost, dealer ORC, ED, VAT, transportation cost, festival offer,other freebies,etc?
Not sure what BOM cost is? Please elaborate.
Conversion to CNG you mean?

Quote:
If so much was the profit, why not develop a diesel engine for it.
I believe its is/was offered with a Kubota diesel but has been a failure in the market. Autowallas prefer CNG to diesel it seems like

Quote:
You will not agree, the primary competitor for new auto's are the used ones. And there is good number of auto's for sale every now and then.
I'm not aware of this but thanks. How many kms do they drive before junking it?

Quote:
but unfortunately they are yet to have a strong hold in diesel segment.
Quote:
Bajaj is not very comfortably holding the first slot. True competitor is Ape and is giving a very tough fight for Bajaj and is just ~5% less than Bajaj. If you consider 3 wheeler goods, Ape is more than twice the Bajaj in market share.And these two players account for ~80% of the sales volume.
I was talking only about the passenger version. Bajaj is not even present in the goods carrier segment. Sorry I wasn't more clear

Before the arrival of the Piaggio Ape, that the goods carrier market had been dead for a long time because the Bajaj FE based goods carrier had failed because of low pulling power and ran on petrol

Quote:
TVS has not made any impact in sales and even the numbers are skewed to southern states only.
Yes thats exactly what I said about the King
Mpower is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2013, 23:06   #20
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,530
Thanked: 4,686 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

A link (dtd 01/05/2013) to the three wheeler market in India, for reference :

http://autobei.com/blog/indian-three...is-fy-2012-13/

Our own teambhp link depicting the three wheeler market very recently:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...les-india.html

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 8th October 2013 at 23:08.
anjan_c2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2013, 13:47   #21
BHPian
 
turbochrgd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 32
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

I feel, they should, as well as, should not enter the market..

Why they should - Tired of Bajaj, Better quality and smart packaging of space as well as refinement. Like most of us always prefer to get hold of a ECO or Santro Taxi over the half dead Fiats or Cramped 800 (for some).

Why they Should Not - One more reason to ask for rate hike.
Rickshaw guys are already a pain, imagine what will happen when you give them Hondas and Yamahas.
It will be like a senior taxi driver once told me"humara Fiat to acceletor dabana nai kai paanch minut baad chalta tha aur brake dabbna hai to pach minute pahile planning karna padta, aur yai Santaru gadi mai to sab jat pat ho jata hai"..

I first used to get pissed at the way the Fiat rolling slowly, slowly but now i find them way safer, as the Santro guys drive like they are on fire.

I definitely don't want the same to happen in case of rickshaws. i don't mind leaving early to reach on time, rather then not reaching at all..
turbochrgd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2013, 16:11   #22
BHPian
 
fash_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 217
Thanked: 54 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

I don't really think safety or brand image would be of much concern. Their main issue would be volume. Compared to the two wheelers and four wheelers i'm guessing the sales ratio of new 3 wheelers would be really low; read not worth the effort
fash_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2013, 16:38   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
jacs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,464
Thanked: 715 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

I am a regular user of ricks now a days however I too feel these bugs should vanish from our roads. They are a major contributor to the trouble in City traffic. A toyota powered Tuk-tuk on Indian roads? Can't just imagine that.

Saw a comment on Bangkok tuk-tuks, yes I also heard its powered by Toyota engine. Even saw Toyota painted on the rear panel of some. And the same is used to power snake boats in Floating market as per them.

I had fun time on tuk-tuk during my visits to BKK. They drive really fast but not found unsafe. May be the overall road mannerism is the reason?


Name:  tuktuk.jpg
Views: 13815
Size:  174.0 KB

Last edited by jacs : 9th October 2013 at 16:40.
jacs is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2013, 19:10   #24
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

When I visited Bangkok 10 years ago, they were all 2 strokes (& sounded glorious) but I believe they have gone 4 stroke just like out Indian autos.

They were originally born out of a Daihatsu Midget that Hammerhead has posted here & continued to use its 2 stroke engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacs View Post
I am a regular user of ricks now a days however I too feel these bugs should vanish from our roads.
How do you expect to travel if they vanish? (for the same cost & convenience)

I for one would like to see some technological advancement to make them safer and the drivers more educated and less maniacal

Last edited by Mpower : 9th October 2013 at 21:48.
Mpower is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 10:07   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 136
Thanked: 258 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

Let me add my thoughts to this. For me it is no surprise at all that Japanese manufacturers have stayed away from the three wheeler market. There are possibly many reasons for this, but for purposes of convenience we could talk about two of those many.

1. The first reason is that the three wheeler is a strange quirk and a production of Italy, where the cities are old and in the quest for preserving heritage, narrow roads do not give way to wide ones. In that case for things such as last mile transportation and also for taking people to areas that cannot be accessed by larger vehicles, the three wheeler was the most useful, just like the Gondolas of Venice (you don't find them anywhere else in the world do you?). In a war ravaged country like Italy the late 1940s became an opportunity for Piaggio and Innocenti to create vehicles that would be cheap in production and given that Italy is considered to have the worst behaved traffic in Europe, it was quite logical that a solution that would not be acceptable to the rest of the world was acceptable to the Italians. This is a cultural similarity that Italy vaguely shares with India.

2. When Automotive Products of India (API) and Bajaj collaborated with Innocenti and Piaggio respectively they found that the three wheeled autorickshaws were a good fit for a newly independent country, ravaged by colonialism and trying to find acceptable solutions to public transport. The frugality of the three wheeler was useful there and therefore it started with the passenger versions (even the Tempo Hanseat which was originally a goods carrier became a people mover here) came into being first. We Indians love to save money (a very good trait) and therefore took to the autorickshaw like fish to water. When the TVS King was launched the then Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, Karunanidhi's son, Stalin, said that the three wheeler in India is a poor man's chauffeur driven car (factually wrong since if you calculate how much you spend on an autorickshaw it is far from economical, calculate say the autorickshaw fare from Hyderabad to Mumbai it turns out to be far more expensive than the cost of an airticket) and myths like this keep the horrible contraption alive. The Japanese work ethic will not support this thinking at all and they are not very like the Italians. So for me this is no surprise, that they have diligently stayed away from the three wheeler segment.

Last edited by sadsack : 10th October 2013 at 10:12. Reason: Wrong spelling and bad grammar
sadsack is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 10:30   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RJ-02,DL,MH-12
Posts: 920
Thanked: 1,080 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

The production and use of three wheelers is limited to few developing countries and underdeveloped countries, when we look at Japanese or any other European / American manufactures, their focus has mainly been technology upgrade – rather they underpin the new policies in many countries for better safety and emission norms for conventional vehicles. In addition to this, the same set of manufacturers are focused on development of vehicles for future (Hybrid, pure electric and fuel cells) and thus the age old unstable three wheelers are not part of their Wisdom and technology development agenda.

More so, it has been observed that globally the market for unsafe technologies is reducing, thus a company / manufacture who advocates for new safety and emission norms for its cars and other commercial products will face difficulty while seeking wavier for a poor technology that it is going to supply in its three wheelers.

We see that Bajaj is selling Auto at 1.5 Lacs, it is not possible for a player like Honda / Suzuki to make a better machine which is safer & efficient than Bajaj and bring it for sales at the similar price for Indian buyers. Look at the new CNG Nano, the base version is INR 2.43 Lac (Ex Showroom).

It can so happen that once the Bajaj Quadra cycle finds its market in India, these players with their better technology might introduce a cheaper commuter 4 wheeler in India – Not sure of such move though.

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 10th October 2013 at 10:34.
i74js is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 10:45   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
jacs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,464
Thanked: 715 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
When I visited Bangkok 10 years ago, they were all 2 strokes (& sounded glorious) but I believe they have gone 4 stroke just like out Indian autos.

They were originally born out of a Daihatsu Midget that Hammerhead has posted here & continued to use its 2 stroke engine


How do you expect to travel if they vanish? (for the same cost & convenience)

I for one would like to see some technological advancement to make them safer and the drivers more educated and less maniacal
Name:  tuk tuk.jpg
Views: 16470
Size:  193.9 KB

Checkout the exhaust of the modern tuk-tuk, they literally roar through the streets. Infact tuk-tuks charge more than the Corolla Altis Taxis and its more chosen now a days by tourists for its fun element .


3 wheels is what causes the real advantage to drivers to zip through traffic and even take "U" turns on narrow one ways! I think TATA MAGIC is one solution. In Kerala, they charge same as Ricks. Much safer than the open 3 wheel bugs.
jacs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 16:02   #28
BHPian
 
arunkrishnan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chennai
Posts: 33
Thanked: 21 Times
Default

Just my 2 cents... with cars/4-wheel CVs becoming more and more affordable, and road infrastructure slowly improving across the country, we'll soon be seeing the back of auto rickshaws. Decades ago, the expectation from an automobile was durability and ability to sneak in and out of narrow lanes. Today the expectations have changed drastically - pulling power, speed, safety and eco-friendliness not to mention comfort and a pollution-free ride. With most of the autos still running petrol (and other crude stuff that may least qualify as fuel) across India, 3 wheeler segment is something which will only start to shrink very soon. Also, for a 2 wheeler manufacturer, manufacturing 3-wheelers is a logical evolution. But for the Japanese makers with almost all have 4 wheeler portfolio, it would be a big step down and not worth investing, as they can get better margins in cars and performance bikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
...
Not sure what BOM cost is? Please elaborate.
...
Guess it's Bill of Material cost which is the cost of all the materials used alone without considering manufacturing cost, shipping cost, labour cost and other cost incurred in converting the materials to the final product.

Last edited by aah78 : 10th October 2013 at 20:31. Reason: Posts merged.
arunkrishnan4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 16:50   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
silversteed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PGT//BLR//STR
Posts: 1,986
Thanked: 1,402 Times
Default Re: Why are the Japanese not venturing into the 3-Wheeler segment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacs View Post
Checkout the exhaust of the modern tuk-tuk, they literally roar through the streets.
Please take a look at Chennai auto-rickshaws. I suspect the vast majority to have what sounds like an FFE! One rick driver said they do some "silencer work" to improve mileage and pickup. Their ear-piercing noise is definitely not pleasant to hear.
silversteed is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 19:01   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
.....One rick driver said they do some "silencer work" to improve mileage and pickup. Their ear-piercing noise is definitely not pleasant to hear.
The silencer is modified to increase the free flow. There by thump (other side is sound and worst side will be noise) is increased. They are also a part of modifications when these ricks are taken to street race.
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda's Wave 2.0 plan for the two-wheeler segment GRAND23 Motorbikes 3 6th July 2014 23:48
3 wheeler for the price of a 4 wheeler, WHY? raj_5004 Commercial Vehicles 20 28th February 2012 11:27
2 Wheeler or 4 Wheeler? That is the question... mmxylorider Street Experiences 2 17th August 2010 23:08
2 Seater - Four Wheeler from VW - At the cost of a Two Wheeler!! Chethan B G The International Automotive Scene 4 11th May 2010 20:03
is honda not going to get into the race for the 200cc and 200+cc segment bikes? mrstyx Motorbikes 10 1st April 2007 16:33


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 21:48.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks