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Old 24th October 2014, 13:16   #16
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

This is quite welcome move by TATA to equip their trucks with AMT. Drivers get lots of driving fatigue with hardened clutch (Yes, try pressing clutch yourself of any truck) and with every gear change. Trucks gear ratio difference is very small, result they have to change gear quite frequently on load condition. Although drivers are also human beings.

Apart from this, one more change TATA should made is equip all trucks with AC. . They drive all day & night with many time temperature hovering above 40 degrees. AC should be made mandatory in all trucks.

Along with AMT gearbox AC should also be added as mandatory. These two combination will increase efficiency of drivers and offset any fuel over consumption.
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Old 24th October 2014, 13:21   #17
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by Autolock123 View Post
Another factor which i came across while reading about AMT's sometime back was, resistance from Experienced Drivers. they usually say that shifting the gears at right time is their skill
You know, every driver out there thinks he's a Schumacher / Hamilton. Call it ego or whatever. But the fact remains as below:

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
I'd also like to add that the AMT manages the clutch & gearbox a lot better than sub-par drivers out there. There's no doubt that it is more talented than a below-average driver in choosing when to shift, how to shift and what gear to be in.
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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
You almost got the pricing part right, with the AMT.
Totally! Additionally, there are savings from reduced clutch wear, lesser engine wear & tear (upshifting at lower rpms), higher productivity (lower stress levels on driver) etc. On a related note, for the chauffeur-driven car of my house, I'd much rather pick an AMT than an MT.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
I have seen long distance truckers using a brick on the "A" pedal (Literally) and just controlling the steering.
Jugaad cruise control! I hope this is more the exception than the rule.

Either ways, on typically Indian highways where a lot of speed variation is required, I doubt this would work.
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Old 24th October 2014, 13:42   #18
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
... Tata did showcase its Diesel hybrid bus in Auto Expo 14 with AMT and it was too bad last minute cook up job.
The SLU was straight lift and harness and cables were just left loosely hanging.
Reminds me of engineering college level projects! That's not the way something is to be displayed in an Auto Expo.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Either ways, on typically Indian highways where a lot of speed variation is required, I doubt this would work.
It does work on long, monotonous stretches, such as NH-7 between Hyderabad and Bangalore.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
long distance truckers deserve features such as AMT, Cruise control, ABS and Power steering. This will help drivers and also make our roads safer
Power Steering has already been made mandatory for trucks and buses. ABS is mandatory for tractor-trailers, and for trucks carrying hazardous substances. I hope the CMVR is updated to include at least ABS in the must-have list of features.
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emergency breaking
Do you want the truck to break apart? ;-)

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
...Along with AMT gearbox AC should also be added as mandatory. These two combination will increase efficiency of drivers and offset any fuel over consumption.
The AL Boss ICV is offered with an AMT in the higher variant, which also has AC as a standard feature.

At the end of the day, the truck owner has the final say when it comes to the creature comforts to be provided. Both AL and TM offer AC cabs across the range, but the percentage of such cabs selling is very small compared to bare bones cabs.

The only way is to phase out the practice of supplying the chassis with just the FES, and offer trucks only with factory-built cabs. Let the operator decide on the type of load body and have it fabricated elsewhere if he chooses that way. But I don't see it happening in the near future, unless the people employed in the parallel industry that makes those beautiful looking, artistic truck cabins are re-deployed and this industry itself merged with bus-body building units. A tricky proposition.

Last edited by silversteed : 24th October 2014 at 13:57. Reason: Adding quote
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Old 24th October 2014, 13:54   #19
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

Truck drivers, mostly, are pretty skilled and take great pride in their driving.
Lot many of them can be safely called enthusiasts.
However, their scale of merit features different items than car enthusiasts. They normally take "Reversing Judgement", "Balance the truck with uneven load", "gap maintenance in a group" etc. I was once given a long tut on how to balance a truck with load on one side. I was rather fascinated learning that they indeed understand very many technical parameters of good driving. They just don't know the correct words for them.

The AMT, as it seems, should not make any of their skill areas more difficult or cumbersome to practice. Even more so, if that AMT has that M/A triptronic feature which lets them to select gears when they want.

I have also observed that lots of truck drivers (my sample is restricted to those who drive in to Mumbai region) are quite aware of automatic shifting systems and are willing to try them out. A lot of drivers (not all young) are quite progressive in nature and are not closed to newer technology. They like new toys as much as we do.

And the last word - "They really really like these newer vehicles - but not because of these technologies. They like them because they hope that these new vehicles will have AC!!!".
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Old 25th October 2014, 09:59   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Jugaad cruise control! I hope this is more the exception than the rule.

Either ways, on typically Indian highways where a lot of speed variation is required, I doubt this would work.
Yes. It is Jugaad; But it is quite common among truck drivers.

It works in many highways down South; like Bangalore-Pune, Bangalore-Hyderabad, Bangalore-Chennai, Bangalore-Salem-Madurai... to name a few.


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Do you want the truck to break apart?
Apologies! That post has a lot of mistakes. I will be careful in future!!
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Old 26th October 2014, 01:55   #21
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Smile Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You know, every driver out there thinks he's a Schumacher / Hamilton.

Jugaad cruise control!
I have seen trucks and buses with the word 'pilot' written on the driver door!!

So add 'maverick' (top gun) to the list of Schumacher and Hamilton!

Automatics should definitely help ease the life of those drivers and make our roads much safer too.

In fact not just trucks and buses, automatics in cars too, would help in overall safety and road manners, no longer the mad dash to stop a pedestrian / vehicle from crossing our path, just to avoid downshifting and upshifting gears!
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Old 26th October 2014, 08:21   #22
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

Is a nice move and would be, in my opinion, a lot more advisable in Buses than Trucks initially, as Indian heavy vehicle drivers are raw to automated transmissions of any kind.
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Old 26th October 2014, 09:45   #23
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
:

It does work on long, monotonous stretches, such as NH-7 between Hyderabad and Bangalore.
There are short stretches where the brick on throttle is used to relax the feet. On NH-4 The 50 km or so stretch between Karad and Kini is one.
The brick is balanced with part overhanging behind the heel rest and part in the middle. Shifting it ahead presses accelerator more and increases speed and vice versa. The newer accelerator pedals without heel rest cannot be used for this.


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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
:
Power Steering has already been made mandatory for trucks and buses. ABS is mandatory for tractor-trailers, and for trucks carrying hazardous substances. I hope the CMVR is updated to include at least ABS in the must-have list of features.
ABS will be mandatory for all HCV's 16 Tr GVW and above.

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
:
At the end of the day, the truck owner has the final say when it comes to the creature comforts to be provided. Both AL and TM offer AC cabs across the range, but the percentage of such cabs selling is very small compared to bare bones cabs.
There are lot of owner driven trucks especially in Punjab and TN these can be targets for cabs with more comforts. India has quicker turn over of vehicles and lesser maintenance, average intercity truck is under 5 Yrs old. Unlike USA or Australia where older trucks are very well kept, they still run for years, but keep getting upgraded. Many have replaced engines there with co overhauled engines adhering with latest pollution norms etc. Due to this short life cycle investment in non essentials is not common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Truck drivers, mostly, are pretty skilled and take great pride in their driving.
Lot many of them can be safely called enthusiasts.
However, their scale of merit features different items than car enthusiasts. They normally take "Reversing Judgement", "Balance the truck with uneven load", "gap maintenance in a group" etc.
n trucker language the Balancing is called 'Jhola' , and the convoy running with correct gap is called 'Kat'.

Driving in a convoy at 50kph with correct gap gives very good fuel efficiency for all middle trucks with even 3 axles returning about 4km / lit. the lead trucker rases his had out in a '_/' way before reducing speed. faster speeds need lesser gaps making it dangerous.
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Old 27th October 2014, 19:47   #24
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post

n trucker language the Balancing is called 'Jhola' , and the convoy running with correct gap is called 'Kat'.

Driving in a convoy at 50kph with correct gap gives very good fuel efficiency for all middle trucks with even 3 axles returning about 4km / lit. the lead trucker rases his had out in a '_/' way before reducing speed. faster speeds need lesser gaps making it dangerous.
Rahul
Thanks a lot for the terms. I knew the Jhola or the Jhul, did not know the term 'kat'.

It is a truly impressive skill.
There are drivers who can maintain convoy speed for more than 10 - 15 minutes on single lane NH6 without even touching the break once.
Convoy overtake on these roads also show another level of driving skill.

To get ~ 4 kmpl with 30 Ton load, one must keep the momentum on his side all the time. Correct gear selection and controlled use of engine breaking is very important.

I think this needs very efficient and swift usage of gears and clutch, which may not be adequately emulated in AMT systems.
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Old 28th October 2014, 10:53   #25
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
There are drivers who can maintain convoy speed for more than 10 - 15 minutes on single lane NH6 without even touching the break once.
Convoy overtake on these roads also show another level of driving skill.

To get ~ 4 kmpl with 30 Ton load, one must keep the momentum on his side all the time. Correct gear selection and controlled use of engine breaking is very important.
Doing a convoy on Single lane road is dangerous for other road users and for ones own self.
Imagine a car having to overtake this convoy. He either has to time it in such a way that he does it in one shot or needs to squeeze himself in between trucks when he encounters traffic at his opposite end. He is at the mercy of the truck driver in the middle of convoy who has to yield. For a driver who has been doing this convoy continuously, he might be lulled into inertia and may not reach fast enough to yield for the car.

One more reason for extracting better mileage would be using the slipstream of the truck in front in the convoy.
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Old 5th November 2014, 17:13   #26
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Doing a convoy on Single lane road is dangerous for other road users and for ones own self.
Imagine a car having to overtake this convoy. He either has to time it in such a way that he does it in one shot or needs to squeeze himself in between trucks when he encounters traffic at his opposite end. He is at the mercy of the truck driver in the middle of convoy who has to yield.
The drivers are extremely alert while convoy driving, and use code horns messages, when a car tries to overtake the last truck, the driver usually gives 3 short blasts on his horn, and the lead driver usually waves the car ahead if he sees enough space through oncoming traffic or waves the car down, the last 3-4 truck driverss also get their foot of the accelerator and coast creating a gap in the middle. Most of the convoy drivers are very experienced middle aged drivers and almost 90% of them are either HR-38, HR-46 and TN-63 registered.

Yes it is dangerous, but very efficient and done by very few experienced drivers, I have also never heard of any major accident with a convoy.

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Originally Posted by DWind View Post
One more reason for extracting better mileage would be using the slipstream of the truck in front in the convoy.
The word 'KAT' that I mentioned in a previous post means slip stream.

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Old 26th November 2014, 11:57   #27
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Default Tata Motors to Launch Trucks With Auto Gear Shift

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"We are looking to provide AMT technology in products like the Prima trucks, Xenon XT pick up truck and light commercial vehicle Ultra. These are expected to hit the market in the next financial year," Tata Motors Executive Director Commercial Vehicles Ravi Pisharody told .

Tata Motors is working to develop the technology indigenously in order to keep the costs down, he added. Auto gear shift vehicles have the flexibility of both manual mode and auto drive mode in the same unit, with a simple shift of gear lever.

Tata Motors, which has completed 60 years of manufacturing at its plant here, here is also working on developing liquefied natural gas (LNG) and dual fuel powered vehicles.
SOURCE: http://auto.ndtv.com/news/id-702536

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Old 26th November 2014, 12:23   #28
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

An AMT in a truck will change the entire scenario for truckers.

Their stress levels will go down, leading to lesser accidents and more enjoyable longer distance driving times. Driving a truck with that heavy clutch and hard gearshifts is a task in itself.

Secondly, the gearboxes and clutches will last longer as there is no question of driver skill in these departments atleast.

I think the only problem I would face with the AMT would be in areas like Ladakh and Kargil etc where in some amount of clutch slippage is required to get the trucks on the move on some of those steep passes. And as we know the overloading scenario in our country, I hope the gearboxes mated to these AMT's have super low ratio's to handle every scenario unlike the Celerio which if the vehicle is not able to overcome the obstacle, disengages the clutch and re attempts. I feel in some of these areas, a manual clutch is a boon.

Lastly, I think along with the AMT, these trucks should have an airconditioner as standard too. I mean how many cc's AC compressor for such a small car like cabin would a truck need anyway, with the humongous torque these beasts have, it won't have a ml of difference in the mileage per kilometer of these trucks. The Prima has them as an option and knowing the Indian truck owners, they will not add this option for their drivers.

Also a bunk bed should be a standard feature behind the seat with adequate closets and a small TV set with a dish tv connection for the entertainment of the truckers while they are resting too. Let's give these guys some fun after all the hard work they do too. All this will add a maximum 50 thousand to the price of the truck, I believe its worth ity. We are moving in the 21st century, India is coming up, so should the way trucking is done in India.

Imagine this, 40 degrees outside, a cool 24 degrees inside the cabin, AMT doing its shifting, the power steering keeping his hands at ease, the ABS making sure he brakes right in hard situations, water being cooled by one of the vents of the air conditioner in the huge glove box. Chips packet lying open near the AMT gear lever and being eaten. The truck chugging along its destination at a cool 80 kmph. Why should this not be a realistic scenario ?

If India has to come up, the lives of these kind of people who do most of the running around in India has to improve.
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Old 26th November 2014, 12:41   #29
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
An AMT in a truck will change the entire scenario for truckers.

Their stress levels will go down, leading to lesser accidents and more enjoyable longer distance driving times. Driving a truck with that heavy clutch and hard gearshifts is a task in itself.

Secondly, the gearboxes and clutches will last longer as there is no question of driver skill in these departments atleast.

I think the only problem I would face with the AMT would be in areas like Ladakh and Kargil etc where in some amount of clutch slippage is required to get the trucks on the move on some of those steep passes. And as we know the overloading scenario in our country, I hope the gearboxes mated to these AMT's have super low ratio's to handle every scenario unlike the Celerio which if the vehicle is not able to overcome the obstacle, disengages the clutch and re attempts. I feel in some of these areas, a manual clutch is a boon.

Lastly, I think along with the AMT, these trucks should have an airconditioner as standard too. I mean how many cc's AC compressor for such a small car like cabin would a truck need anyway, with the humongous torque these beasts have, it won't have a ml of difference in the mileage per kilometer of these trucks. The Prima has them as an option and knowing the Indian truck owners, they will not add this option for their drivers.

Also a bunk bed should be a standard feature behind the seat with adequate closets and a small TV set with a dish tv connection for the entertainment of the truckers while they are resting too. Let's give these guys some fun after all the hard work they do too. All this will add a maximum 50 thousand to the price of the truck, I believe its worth ity. We are moving in the 21st century, India is coming up, so should the way trucking is done in India.

Imagine this, 40 degrees outside, a cool 24 degrees inside the cabin, AMT doing its shifting, the power steering keeping his hands at ease, the ABS making sure he brakes right in hard situations, water being cooled by one of the vents of the air conditioner in the huge glove box. Chips packet lying open near the AMT gear lever and being eaten. The truck chugging along its destination at a cool 80 kmph. Why should this not be a realistic scenario ?

If India has to come up, the lives of these kind of people who do most of the running around in India has to improve.
Sincerely wish life was ideal, but is it so ever....

I do feel sorry for the truck drivers too in India. But imagine you being a truck owner... would you trust your driver so much that, sleeping in the truck for 8 hrs... he won't switch on the AC. The compressor would be working all the time because of engine heat as I guess once the compressor goes kaput.. no owner would be ready to shell out 20K for the replacement.

I strongly feel.. if Air con is provided in the trucks... you will find more trucks parked road side than on move.

Sorry mods for being
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Old 26th November 2014, 16:43   #30
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Default Re: Tata Motors to use AMT in commercial vehicles

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
If India has to come up, the lives of these kind of people who do most of the running around in India has to improve.
Almost a decade ago we were checking the possibility of fitting AC in our off-highway machinery products. We interviewed many customers and operators during the process. Many owners said " Saar, I do not have air conditioned room or office, why should I get an machine with AC for my operator?"
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