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Old 12th March 2015, 11:48   #16
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
These buses are built by Tata Marcopolo and equipped with automatic transmission, which the company claims, reduces driver fatigue, and at the same time, improve acceleration and increases fuel efficiency. They have a length of 12 metres and a floor height of 900 mm and are fitted with electronic display boards and pneumatic door operations. The buses have a wider passage-way and large window panes. They also have lower entry/exit doors, which are claimed to be convenient for commuters including differently-abled and elder passengers.
These are the very same requirements set down in the JnNURM-2 specifications, called UBS-II. And nothing to claim as a luxury feature.

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Super Quality. Seems Tata has improved. Buses had a solid feel.
It's Automatic.

Overall robust quality. No metal sheets visible in entire bus.

Windows are large & insulation is topnotch.
Got to be seen how they hold up in the long run.
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Old 12th March 2015, 16:01   #17
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

I have to comment here that here in Bangalore BMTC has scrapped tata marcopolo due to extremely poor quality.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/45825746.cms

As a observer, when ever i see these marcopolo buses things, they are struggling to get to speed, spewing out black smoke, and choking literally on flyovers and inclines. BMTC got rid of all it's fleet, good riddance.
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Old 12th March 2015, 20:14   #18
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Slightly OT: Coming to Bhubaneswar, few automatic AC Tata Marcopolo have been introduced for the city transport about 6-9 months back. They are still shining red, fairly quiet, smoke cloud-free and breakdown free. May be it has got to do with the kind of maintenance being done on the
Some similar buses, as well as Ashok Leyland A/C and Volvos are also running in Calcutta/WB. Most of the TATAs under the JnNURM are run by the State Transport Corporations and are very new but with zero maintenance already breaking down once in a while, the bodies clean though dusty, but no smoke yet. The older non-AC TATAs and Leyland JanBus types mostly given to private city operators, are already in tatters, cracked windscreen held together with cellotape, fibreglass panels hanging precariously -- tied down with coconut ropes etc !
Under the earlier government, this used to be the condition of 'state' buses only, but since the current one refuses to hike ordinary bus fares, the private operators have given up on maintenance. The government itself runs very few ordinary buses -- mostly ramshackle ones though only a few years old -- waiting for another breakdown to be towed to the morgue, instead it concentrates on high- fare 'Special' or 'A/C' categories.

Volvos are mostly the private owned and operated long distance buses here, still well maintained and smoke free in spite of the high mileage and bad roads

"The buses being discussed here are automatics and hence wrong gear selection is out of the question " quoting again from the same source (I need to read up on multiquotes, sorry!) !

That indeed was a strange discussion !
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Old 15th March 2015, 09:42   #19
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

Similar looking Marcopolo buses in Pune have CNG engines, and are running well dont see them breaking down much. All of them have broken rear bumpers which seem to be made of FRP.

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Old 15th March 2015, 22:31   #20
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

We are being unfair here. The Tata Marcopolos and Volvos are not procured through the same bidding process. Tata Marcopolos in Bangalore are 180 Hp AC buses which are almost as big as the Volvos. Now a 245 Hp Volvo breezes past and a 180 Hp Tata labors belching out smoke. Common sense would have us thinking what is it that prevents Tata from installing a more powerful engine. Now a glance at the tender documents might probably reveal unrealistic Fuel efficiency targets for the 'AAM' category where the Tatas and Leylands fight whereas the Volvos in the premium category goes through a different set of tender documents and clauses. Now the Volvos offer about 1-1.5 kmpl which is perfectly fine for BMTC. About Vayu Vajra, the less said the better with fares higher than call taxis in certain stretches. If the vehicle runs half empty most of the time, the same will look and feel better due to less abuse.
Now a fair comparison will be between a TML Rear engine bus and an Ashok Leyland Rear engine bus
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Old 16th March 2015, 10:22   #21
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
We are being unfair here...
Comparing the BMTC Marcopolos with the Volvo 8400LEs is unfair, but comparing them with the Corona Skypak RE AC buses is fair, isn't it? The Volvos have a 7L 290hp CRDI engine, while the other two are powered by a Cummins B-series 5.9L EDC'ed engine (I think both are non-CRDI).

Comparing apples to apples, the Coronas aren't seen belching out black smoke, or crying hoarse (literally) at load - both are traits of the BMTC Marcopolos, despite having an extra 20hp on tap compared to the Corona Skypak. Some of these rattletrap smokestacks have been converted to non-AC, but little has changed in terms of the frequency of breakdowns. Now, compare them with the Corona Skypaks.
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Old 16th March 2015, 10:49   #22
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

Comparing these buses with BMTC marcopolos isn't an apple to apple comparison IMHO. The buses of Ahmedabad are Front Engine buses while BMTC AC marcopolos have rear engine. The engines in these two are likely to be different. So drawing conclusions about the buses in Ahmedabad based on experiences of BMTC marcopolos is not correct.

Not saying that these buses will be good. Just saying that it is not a valid comparison
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Old 16th March 2015, 11:56   #23
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
We are being unfair here. The Tata Marcopolos and Volvos are not procured through the same bidding process. Tata Marcopolos in Bangalore are 180 Hp AC buses which are almost as big as the Volvos. Now a 245 Hp Volvo breezes past and a 180 Hp Tata labors belching out smoke. Common sense would have us thinking what is it that prevents Tata from installing a more powerful engine.
The Tata Marcopolos in Delhi have 230 HP CNG engine but even they struggle on flyovers. Also, the AC is not very effective and therefore add-on fans were installed by DTC pursuant to repeated passenger complaints. The Delhi buses looked good when they were new (around the time of Commonwealth Games) but they have aged really fast and are in very poor condition now. Breakdowns are also common, especially during summers. AL buses don't fair much better either.

The logic of having ultra low floor buses on rough Indian roads is beyond my understanding. It may be better if manufacturers come out with normal, semi-low-floor, ladder on frame buses but with rear engine and automatic transmission.
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Old 16th March 2015, 12:59   #24
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
The Tata Marcopolos in Delhi have 230 HP CNG engine but even they struggle on flyovers. Also, the AC is not very effective and therefore add-on fans were installed by DTC pursuant to repeated passenger complaints. The Delhi buses looked good when they were new (around the time of Commonwealth Games) but they have aged really fast and are in very poor condition now. Breakdowns are also common, especially during summers. AL buses don't fair much better either.

The logic of having ultra low floor buses on rough Indian roads is beyond my understanding. It may be better if manufacturers come out with normal, semi-low-floor, ladder on frame buses but with rear engine and automatic transmission.
Quite agree there on both points.
The first lots, from MarcoPolo to JanBus in Calcutta (Newer than CommWealthGames' batches in Delhi), are already very shabby (costly to replace seats, body panels, fixtures, etc and these cannot be repaired -- a very costly 'use & throw') and break down frequently.

Ultra low floor works strictly within city avenues and 6/8 lane highways. easy for saree-clad ladies and old people. For all other roads, ladder-frame is the time tested and proven solution for Indian roads !
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Old 22nd March 2015, 10:21   #25
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Default Re: Ahmedabad gets 123 new Tata buses with automatic transmission

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Comparing the BMTC Marcopolos with the Volvo 8400LEs is unfair, but comparing them with the Corona Skypak RE AC buses is fair, isn't it? The Volvos have a 7L 290hp CRDI engine, while the other two are powered by a Cummins B-series 5.9L EDC'ed engine (I think both are non-CRDI).
No it is still not fair. The Coronas are actually more advanced than the Volvos except for smaller engine, far lighter than all other competition, and the only true Monocoque buses with independent front suspension.

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Originally Posted by AkMar View Post
Comparing these buses with BMTC marcopolos isn't an apple to apple comparison IMHO. The buses of Ahmedabad are Front Engine buses while BMTC AC marcopolos have rear engine. The engines in these two are likely to be different.
The PMPML Marcopolos with front engines are running decently, and far better than standard TATA's and semi low floor Leyland buses. They are non Ac though.

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
The Tata Marcopolos in Delhi have 230 HP CNG engine but even they struggle on flyovers. Also, the AC is not very effective ............................................Breakd owns are also common, especially during summers. AL buses don't fair much better either.

The logic of having ultra low floor buses on rough Indian roads is beyond my understanding.
Ultra low floor and Monocoque construction is what we need in the long term, but just picking up a design from europe and plonking it here is wrong.
Most ULF's have 340mm floor height, while semi low floor on ladder frame have 600mm. The actual ground clearance is 380 mm due to frame and other protrusions below floor level. The steps are supposed to be at 300mm and 450mm.
What we need is a redesigned Monocoque semi low floor with 380 or 400 mm height. (380 mm was the older standard for semi urban application by Man who was the leader for the application) Intercity Volvo's with 380 mm luggage compartment floor also run well on our roads.
Front independent suspension like in Corona. truck type 10.00 X 20 tyres (the low aspect tyres on 22.5" rims have rim damage issues)
Strength of a full structure monocoque combined with higher ground clearance will do wonders.
Gear box should be operators choice, and smoke belching is more due to ECU and TCU software and integration. Tata uses their own, while Corona purchases Allison TCU's compatible with Cummins ECU's. Though both use engines made by TATA Cummins, the Corona engines are bought from Cummins India, and have different imported TCU's to control them.

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