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Old 17th January 2015, 20:45   #46
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Five facts that one must know about this newly born airline.
source: http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...istara-2051009
I can only wish the best of luck to Vistara. Far too much hope has pervaded the last few pages. Let's talk some numbers - I wouldn't be so optimistic so soon.

http://corporate.spicejet.com/Conten...tionalData.pdf says that spicejet was spending 4.07rs/seat-km but selling it for only 3.98 rs/seat-km-sold (page 3). Meaning that inspite of selling their seats almost at cost, their aircraft had an average utilization of ~82%. Ideally they should've sold tickets 25% higher but that would've reduced their demand considerably which is exactly what happened to Jetlite (- http://www.jetairways.com/doc/Q2FY20...rRelations.pdf - pg 13), they had a 72.3% load factor with a revenue of 5.01 rs/seat-km-sold. That translates into serious losses for Jetlite - 150 cr in that quarter itself. Ergo the indian customer doesn't buy too many high priced tickets.

Now Vistara has 20% higher leg room. That means even if they have the cost efficiencies of spicejet (which was profitable for many years and was decently well run) inspite of just starting off, they're 20% costlier per seat-km because the plane length remains the same! Is the Indian customer going to pay 20% more, over what Spicejet or Indigo would charge - on short haul routes (most Indian flts are <3 hrs)? For 20% more leg room? Given the pretty decent standards set by Indigo (incl their corporate ticketing schemes / meals) and the heavy patronage by Indian corporates, I'd be really curious to see how it works out for Vistara - its nowhere near as easy as some of the posts have made it out to be.

PS: Scale matters. You can see in the above Jetlite link that one big reason for their unit costs spiking in Q2 FY15 was the number of aircraft reducing from 13 to 10 but the number of employees or "other operating costs" did not reduce proportionately (page 14) resulting in a 22% increase in unit cost (cost per average seat km). I doubt Vistara would have anywhere near the scale and hence efficiencies of even a Spicejet, let alone Indigo.

Last edited by phamilyman : 17th January 2015 at 20:49.
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Old 17th January 2015, 22:58   #47
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Old 17th January 2015, 23:14   #48
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@ HyperRetard

It is a brand new Airbus A320 rolled off the production line in Toulouse, France inOctober 2014. I am intrigued how you conclude from the photo that it is not a new aircraft. Due to my association with the aviation industry I know it is for a fact. But for my contractual obligations I could give you the MFN number - that is like the VIN number in cars. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Narayan

Like all other airlines in India we should be realistic and expect Tata-SIA ie Vistara to take time to settle in and find their feet on service and prices. India is expected (fingers crossed) to be the 4th largest aviation market in the next 10 years and that is why Tata and SIA have chosen this field despite some recent failures. Aviation is a six sigma process industry whether in flying or in maintenance or in flight safety. It is a business of thoroughness of process and making each process repeatable and reliable. That is why some who get into it for the mercurial glamour lose their way and their wallets.

In the 1980s I started my career in Tata's working in their 'new projects' division as a flunkey. In 1986 the conceptualization and thought process was started on what after some delays became the Tata Indica (a decade and more later). The Tata group know how to invest long and stay the course. I wish them all good luck and God Speed with their new venture. In the 1970s when Singapore Airlines had just been formed after being carved out of the joint Singapore-Malaysia Airlines (forget its name now) they turned to Air India (then headed by JRD Tata) to train their cabin crew and help set up their (now famous) cabin service.

Last edited by GTO : 19th January 2015 at 17:38. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 17th January 2015, 23:40   #49
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
It is a brand new Airbus A320 rolled off the production line in Toulouse, France inOctober 2014.
The plane was delivered in October 2014, with a two week red tape delay, on account of the DGCA's contention that the Airline's operation manual was not ready and therefore the aircraft can not fly to India.This after a team which had a member from the DGCA too landed in France, to take delivery of the Aircraft.

The Airbus A320, registered VT-TTB, was painted in all-white and without the Vistara livery,

Last edited by rajeev k : 17th January 2015 at 23:43.
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Old 17th January 2015, 23:40   #50
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
It is a brand new Airbus A320 rolled off the production line in Toulouse, France inOctober 2014. I am intrigued how you conclude from the photo that it is not a new aircraft. Due to my association with the aviation industry I know it is for a fact. But for my contractual obligations I could give you the MFN number - that is like the VIN number in cars. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Narayan
Narayan ji,

Nothing contractual about it in the age of google :-)
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/V...ctive-a320.htm
first aircraft minted as of 12 Sept 2014!

Did you mean MSN? That's 6223 for VT-TTB

http://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/2014...f-wwdt-vt.html
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...TB-Vistara.php

Hope that convinces you Hyperretard bro!
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Old 18th January 2015, 00:29   #51
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
It is a brand new Airbus A320 rolled off the production line in Toulouse, France inOctober 2014. I am intrigued how you conclude from the photo that it is not a new aircraft. Due to my association with the aviation industry I know it is for a fact. But for my contractual obligations I could give you the MFN number - that is like the VIN number in cars. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Narayan
It, from the paint looks old. Definitely not how a plane which has just rolled off from the froduction line should look anyway. Maybe its the photograph/er.
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Old 18th January 2015, 13:35   #52
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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It, from the paint looks old. Definitely not how a plane which has just rolled off from the froduction line should look anyway. Maybe its the photograph/er.
Not sure if the forum rules allows, but there is a site which can give you the janam kundali of every commercial aircraft. You can track its lifeline and the airlines which operated it. From the link below, you can assure yourself that each aircraft is brand new: http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Vistara

Talking on the same lines, which Indian operator leases out used aircraft today? Indigo - New, AirAsia India - New, Indian airlines - New, GoAir -new, only Jet airways I think had a few leased aircraft but not sure about it. IIRC Air Deccan had leased out old aircraft to suit their low cost flying scheme.
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Old 18th January 2015, 17:11   #53
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by HyperRetard View Post
It, from the paint looks old. Definitely not how a plane which has just rolled off from the froduction line should look anyway. Maybe its the photograph/er.
New planes often leave the factory just with primer on them. The carrier will put the livery on by themselves, of have it put on by a specialist firm.

Same is true for the cabin interior. Could be very basic or non-existent leaving the factory. KLM for instance, does all cabin interior, including the panelling, galley all themselves at their base at Schiphol. (or at least did so when I last visited them)

Several years ago I was present, through the invitation of a friend of mine, when one of KLM's brand new 747-400 landed at Schiphol after it's initial ferry flight from the Boeing Factory in Seattle, USA. We visited this new, straight out of the box so to speak, plane about two days after it had landed. I could not believe how much KLM maintenance took out, and still had to put back in, on this brand new plane.

Nearly half the instruments in the cockpit had been ripped out. No interior in the cabin at all! They were doing some major re-wiring as well.

My friend is a KLM maintenance engineer, he couldn't comment on the economics, I trust it makes sense, but it was weird. a lot of stuff gets fitted/refitted to comply with KLM requirements and somehow either Boeing can't or it's more economical to do it back at base in the Netherlands.

Jeroen
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Old 18th January 2015, 18:06   #54
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by HyperRetard View Post
It, from the paint looks old. Definitely not how a plane which has just rolled off from the froduction line should look anyway. Maybe its the photograph/er.
Here's a shot from http://www.planespotters.net/Aviatio...show?id=560823

Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline-vtttcvistaraairbusa320200_planespottersnet_560823.jpg

I think that looks decent enough esp given the subdued colors which aren't really bright. Its pretty much their color choice itself, not even the photographer!
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Old 18th January 2015, 21:52   #55
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

The aircraft is a brand new aircraft, as mentioned earlier. The aircraft is owned by Vistara. The reason, the aircraft looks old, probably due to a combination of the lighting and the plane not being given a good wash, before the first flight. Rather than the outside, it is the inside of the aircraft that shows the real age. For example, the old Indian Airlines aircraft A320s have been painted in the new Air India livery, resulting in a new looking aircraft from the outside, but a real archaic feel from inside (with old, tired interiors).

Coming to leased aircraft with Airlines from India, Jet Airways, Air India, go air and SpiceJet have quite a few leased aircraft. Indigo, till recently, had only new factory fresh aircraft; however, they recently leased 12 A320s from Tiger Airways (aircraft with the registration series VT-ID*).
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Old 1st February 2015, 16:51   #56
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On my recent official tour I had the chance of flying on India's Brand new airline. I specifically altered my itinerary so that i get a chance to fly on Vistara. I was very high on enthusiasm before the flight but the levels dropped after the flight. I am not saying that the experience was way below par but it was certainly not on par. On first ride I will give them an OK.

Since it was an official tour I was booked on the economy class. The food was good, the service was top notch, the interiors felt fresh but the biggest disappointment was the feel of seats. They were way to thin and didn't offer a comfortable feeling. The leg space was only just about OK for my 5.11 height. Even the premium Economy seats looked similar with only difference that they offered was some extra leg room. The Business class seats looked little meatier but I really doubt whether they would offer the same comfort as other Indian carriers like Jet Airways and Air India Offer.

I have taken some pictures of my flight experience. Will upload them soon.
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Old 7th April 2015, 05:16   #57
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

Offered sans comment:
http://www.firstpost.com/business/ne...b-2177047.html

Quote:
The third full service carrier after national airline Air India and Jet Airways, Vistara also operated over 40 percent seats vacant in its aircraft during a period in which some of the other airlines reported a seat factor as high as 89.7 percent.
60% load factor isnt a nice place to be for long.
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Old 7th April 2015, 07:47   #58
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Default Re: Vistara: Tata's new commercial airline

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Offered sans comment:
http://www.firstpost.com/business/ne...b-2177047.html



60% load factor isnt a nice place to be for long.
Their marketing is very poor, at least in Hyderabad. This is a new airline that a lot of people might not recollect while booking a ticket. Unless people remember and feel that it is worth the extra charge, it is unlikely that anyone would opt for this over a cheaper and more reliable offering.

For me, the comfort inside the airline is secondary and the punctuality is the primary factor. This was an area where Jet was notorious and they ensured that most passengers walked away after a flight with them with a bitter experience of rescheduling back and forth.
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Old 11th April 2015, 14:27   #59
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I've had 3 flights with Vistara.
The pre-flight and inflight experience is better than other established carriers like SpiceJet.
I haven't experienced any delays while flying with them.
While boarding, there are three separate lines, one each for the three boarding zones. This is a very simple but effective measure. Moreover, they are using aerobridges at Ahmedabad, Delhi and Mumbai airports. This is also a huge convenience that's neglected by other airlines, in the name of cost cutting.
The planes in general are much cleaner than other airlines. Only Indigo flights are as clean as this.
Food is included in the fare, and in general, is of a much higher quality than anything else served by other airlines.

On the whole, Vistara makes a very sincere effort to provide good service, and they are sure to succeed if they maintain their standards after reaching higher volumes.
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Old 13th April 2015, 03:13   #60
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Have been doing Del-Hyd for the past 2 months in the Vistara.

Service: as good as it gets. No hype, but everything is well cared.

Ontime - Apart from the fog delay in delhi, no other issues seen.

Food Quality - Surely better than AirIndia, Jet and the Rs:100 Oats available on Indigo.

Customer Service: With a smile

Vistara is making a genuine effort to provide good service without a compromise and by not charging that extra buck. I booked my tickets from Del-Hyd for Holi 3 weeks in advance and got a return fare for only Rs:100 more than Indigo. Why would I fly Indigo then?
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