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Old 27th March 2015, 21:41   #31
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Default Re: Bharat Earthmovers launches BH205-E, India's biggest dump truck!

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Originally Posted by Autolock123 View Post
Some quick good info on these type of mining trucks

If you are not able to view the attachment please click here

Source- Industry tap

Interest comparison thanks for sharing that ! But I didn't find it fair to be honest. Why compare against civilian vehicles. They should have compared it against off road normal trucks, like Scania 4x12s or Volvo/Mercedes 4x12s which can be spotted in mines throughout the world. That would show a much more realistic picture of the real cost savings.

Basically them vs the type in the link below would have shown us a good picture of cost savings and efficiency.

http://www.autocarpro.in/IMG/902/290...jpg?1391069088

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Old 30th March 2015, 09:00   #32
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Default Re: Bharat Earthmovers launches BH205-E, India's biggest dump truck!

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
Interest comparison thanks for sharing that ! But I didn't find it fair to be honest. Why compare against civilian vehicles. They should have compared it against off road normal trucks, like Scania 4x12s or Volvo/Mercedes 4x12s which can be spotted in mines throughout the world. That would show a much more realistic picture of the real cost savings.

Basically them vs the type in the link below would have shown us a good picture of cost savings and efficiency.

http://www.autocarpro.in/IMG/902/290...jpg?1391069088
I guess its much more easy for a layman to understand the comparison with vehicle which see sees on daily basis, maybe that's the reason they have compared it with Ford F 150.
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Old 14th April 2015, 00:46   #33
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Default Re: Bharat Earthmovers launches BH205-E, India's biggest dump truck!

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Originally Posted by SnakemanJohny View Post
Brake lights from Czech R ? That is the height of indigenous development !

Though it may offend B'lurians or those from Karnataka, IMHO public sector behemoths like BEML, HAL etc are white elephants kept alive by our defence budgets while the country lacks funds for modernisation of army, navy and the air force. Vehicle Factory Jabbalpur (VHF), which earlier used to make the Jonga, One-tonner and the Shaktiman (MANN) trucks, is another such. Started by the British as the Jabbalpore Guncarriage and Assembly Factory, it now produces 4WD trucks under license from TATA and Ashok Leyland, products inferior to the originals (as claimed by armymen)

I am yet to see a RHD Tatra ? This is news to me ! Maybe there is hope yet for the 'Make In India' slogan ?

Amen.
Snakemanjhonny you're arguments are correct. The Govt created lots of companies to reduce reliance on imports and provide employments and boost research ( call it reverse engineering) BEML, and ordnance factories were to name a few. If you know ECIlL was specifically created to reverse engineer computer sys by the govt. They succeeded in reverse engineer sys of IBM and CDC and marketed them at fraction of the price.
Yes DRDO is white elephant but you require them to do research and make available updated defence tech because countries are not willing to part with their latest defence tech. Copying or reverse engineering is a big business and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Israel and China are examples which have contributed immensely to defence tech and electronics respectively.
Govt cannot wash its hands off from companies it has promoted and sack its employees maybe USA can but not us.
Vehicle factory Jabalpur doesn't manufacture anything they only assemble materials supplied by TATA and Ashok Leyland. If you visit Rajasthan there are still TMB, Shaktiman, Jonga and 1Ton plying on the roads which have been refurbished after discard from army.
Yes there are RHD Tatra in the Army in fact most of the TATRA assembled in or After 2000 are RHD. Yes there is TOT with BEML for their assembly here and many parts are still sourced ex import. But it is a beautiful vehicle to drive and best used in cross country and desert terrain. Do you know that it has a 12 cyl Air cooled engine and can outrun any modern 4X4 SUV in the desert in spite of high ambient temp.
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Old 14th April 2015, 19:55   #34
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Default Re: Bharat Earthmovers launches BH205-E, India's biggest dump truck!

Thank you, RajeVenu, my knowledge of Tatra is very limited ! Wonder how BEML converted them to RHD, when they still import tail lamps !

But some 4WD models of TATA and A-L used by defence forces bear the logo ' VFJ, U/L from... ". Whether they manufacture some parts or merely assemble all is a moot point. Most car makers assemble (most) parts manufactured by their vendors. I myself have a restored Nissan Patrol of 1964 vintage. It will outlast any Jonga made by VFJ, even if they manufactured one today, so pathetic is their workmanship.

I still feel that organisations like the DRDO are necessary only in a socialistic state, where the government does everything. India is trying to move away from that USSR inspired model. Even if they were necessary, it does not justify the huge budget they have at their disposal and very little result to show for it !

At least some like BEML justify their existence by supplying our mines and heavy industries with dumpers and some other equipment.

Many government organisations and public sector units are being downsized through regular retirement and voluntary retirement schemes. There is no need to sack employees. But if the units exist, they should show results. Not one light battle tank or one light combat jet in sixty years of existence !!
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Old 15th April 2015, 01:16   #35
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Originally Posted by RajeVenu View Post
Yes DRDO is white elephant but you require them to do research and make available updated defence tech because countries are not willing to part with their latest defence tech. Copying or reverse engineering is a big business and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Israel and China are examples which have contributed immensely to defence tech and electronics respectively.
Govt cannot wash its hands off from companies it has promoted and sack its employees maybe USA can but not us.
Vehicle factory Jabalpur doesn't manufacture anything they only assemble materials supplied by TATA and Ashok Leyland. If you visit Rajasthan there are still TMB, Shaktiman, Jonga and 1Ton plying on the roads which have been refurbished after discard from army.
Yes there are RHD Tatra in the Army in fact most of the TATRA assembled in or After 2000 are RHD. Yes there is TOT with BEML for their assembly here and many parts are still sourced ex import. But it is a beautiful vehicle to drive and best used in cross country and desert terrain. Do you know that it has a 12 cyl Air cooled engine and can outrun any modern 4X4 SUV in the desert in spite of high ambient temp.
The Tatras may be great at what they do, but AFAIK from a news report at the time of the Tatra scandal, they cost the Indian government twice the factory price.

http://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/...m/20120426.htm

Our bureaucracy and its machinations are so sinister that they will still be paying this huge price even though there has been an exposť of the scam.
A comparable Tata truck doesn't cost anywhere near this much to the exchequer.

There was a time when these machines were sold to us at a discounted price, at times we even paid the USSR in foodgrains. The purchase of these machines was justifiable then, especially because NATO was not interested in selling to us, and developing local from scratch was next to impossible.
But most of the sales agreements have had indigenization clauses which were disregarded, due to vested interest of the bureaucrats and arms dealers.

The army/defense procurement wing send out RFPs every year and hold multi-company trials, but nothing ever comes out of it. Then, after a few years pass, the need for new equipment becomes so pressing that the govt has to pass an executive order and bypass regular procurement procedures. There is clearly a lobby perpetuating this.

DRDO and all the organizations under it really need to be shored up, IMO. The INSAS was a 3 gun system, out of which carbine and LMG are missing in action, more than 15 years after the assault rifle's induction. Even the assault rifle doesn't have full auto mode, as far as I remember.

After 60 years of independence, we haven't even been able to develop a gun!
Countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Israel and Brazil started where we were, but they have left us far behind. The Chinese are in a class by themselves.
We have "indigenous" fighters which have 60% foreign made components, including the engine.
We have an "indigenous" helicopter that is also 40% imported.
Our "indigenous" tanks and howitzers are so bad that the army refuses to buy them.

I think that the time has come for defense PSUs to be converted to PPPs or JVs with private management. Nowadays, there is enough local capital and engineering talent in the private sector for us to maintain our war-worthiness in case of international embargoes.
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Old 19th April 2015, 20:50   #36
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Default Re: Bharat Earthmovers launches BH205-E, India's biggest dump truck!

Dear SnakemanJhonny & Sleepyk,
Both of you are absolutely right in your arguments I am not defending the existence of these white elephants but Defence tech doesn't follow conventional commercial tech. The return on Investments for companies engaged in defence production is long drawn because of stringent requirements, Low volume of production even producing a prototype for bidding and trials costs a lot of money.

The result is that only companies which have already acquired the technology have the wherewithal to bid for tenders. It is impossible for startups to foray into the defence scenario. The govt due to the constraints mentioned looked towards Russia and allies for its Defence Needs. BTW Russian defence equipment's are the most rugged and can take whatever you can throw at them. The budget for defence equipments is always higher since it is not the Item but its requirement which justifies its cost. Running a truck on a highway is entirely different from what the truck will face while being used by the defence forces.

This aspect is undergoing a drastic change because the present Defence forces are demanding the best tech available and the obsolescence of equipment is very fast. Indian companies like TATA, Godrej, Mahindra, L&T have realised the potential for working with defence and are involved closely with the forces and research establishments to cater to the defence sector.

The time involved from concept to production is quite high for defence equipment, if you are comparing with other countries yes 60 years is a long time but many countries are deploying partially proven technology and then replace them as the tech matures. USA & Russia give large budgets to top universities to carry out tech research since ages which we have started emulating now.

So my friends we are slowly and steadily catching up and in our life time we will see indigenous products in our defence and other low volume sectors.

But then as an after thought " Why re-Invent the wheel" when matured and tested tech exists at fraction of the price
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