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Old 24th March 2015, 10:17   #16
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

Dont know if only I have noticed or othees too have encountered similar situations. all the volvo buses whether long distance or local route ones have this problem. The exhaust of all the volvo buses opens straight backwards. if you are in a hatch or a bike, the smoke directly enters through the ac vents into the car. worst? if you are a biker, the smoke is pushed right into your face.

Or rather why just volvo buses. the exhaust of almost all heavy vehicles like ordinary buses and trucks too is right at the level of car windows.
Wonder why isn't the exhaust directed slightly downwards like in cars.


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Last edited by Eddy : 24th March 2015 at 11:38. Reason: Note inline
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Old 24th March 2015, 13:44   #17
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Now I agree that BMTC in general cares 2 hoots when it comes to maintenance, even Volvos have dinged up panels, leaking a.c ducts & engine failures.
The maintenance in question is generally concentrated to be mechanical. Now, the people at Volvo in all their wisdom consider themselves very enlightened when it comes to engine maintenance, hence they've been given a slightly free hand to do what they deem necessary. It's their demand. Plus, a lot of other factors in play here too.

Now, compare the 'bus breaking down ratios' between the Tatas/Ashok Leylands and the Volvos in BMTC. Which one do you see more on the road with a dead plant sticking out of the tail light more often?

As for the interior maintenance, the engineers are in for a fix. What can be done if people shove chewing gums (and other memorabilia) down the AC vents, scrub 'A + J = <3' on the seats, sit with their legs on other seats when the bus empties and use the seat edges as a shoe edge cleaner? It's not the fault of the maintenance team. It's the mentality of the people.

Last edited by barcalad : 24th March 2015 at 13:45.
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Old 25th March 2015, 12:48   #18
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

A curious query: Does the engine technology and capacity on these buses play any role in their reliability?

The links that I referred for data gathering:

Tata Marcopolo:
http://www.buses.tatamotors.com/prod...s3-non-ac.aspx

Volvo 8400:
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/india/...ionsEuro2.aspx

What I see from the above two links is that, the Tata produces HALF the power and torque compared to the figures of the Volvo, though the max gross weight is the same for both the buses. Given the load of the Air conditioning system in the tropical ambient conditions in our country, slow moving traffic, plus (the following is my personal guess, please correct if I'm wrong) the prediction that the engine cooling would not be as effective for an engine in the rear compared to a front mounted one, wouldn't a higher capacity engine prove more reliable in such demanding conditions since it can take the overload abuse?
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Old 25th March 2015, 18:17   #19
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

It is not power supplied, but correctly matched gearbox and differential ratio with respect to the engine torque and gross vehicle weight.
tata uses Allison T270r gearbox http://www.allisontransmission.com/d...9.pdf?sfvrsn=2 this is capable of hauling buses upto 24 Tons with engine input power of 240 HP. The Tata Marcopolo bus is 25% less powerful and weighs 33% less.
If you see the shift sequence, it can be programmed to lock the converter even in 1st gear, and has converter lock in second, and only operates in lock mode in 3rd to 5th.
This will provide a very fuel efficient combination more so if it is programmed to lock in first too where there will be a positive drive even at speeds as low as 5-8 kph.

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Old 26th March 2015, 00:46   #20
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Actually, I have seen more Volvo's stranded on Bangalore roads than the Marcopolo's. Or may be the Marcopolo's that you mention did not even make it out of the depot's !! :P

The rear-engined Marcopolo's are definitely under-powered. For that matter, even AL was not successful with the rear-engine set up. BMTC had tried AL's rear-engine buses long before the Marcopolo's, but the buses couldnt survive / the trial flopped.
+1
In the Mid 90s I had traveled in an Automatic Rear Engined Leyland that used to ply for the Erstwhile Pallavan TC in Chennai. I was probably in 4th or 5th grade so dont remember much about it, but it dont remember it being slow or noisy. Some one from that era who was a lil older might be able to comment. It used to ply on beach road, the route was 6A/21A I guess.
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Old 26th March 2015, 10:10   #21
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
In the Mid 90s I had traveled in an Automatic Rear Engined Leyland that used to ply for the Erstwhile Pallavan TC in Chennai. I was probably in 4th or 5th grade so dont remember much about it, but it dont remember it being slow or noisy. Some one from that era who was a lil older might be able to comment. It used to ply on beach road, the route was 6A/21A I guess.
Did it look like the bus in the pircture below? In the early 1980s, Ashok Leyland had started manufacturing low floor, rear engined Leyland National integral buses, under license from its then collaborator British Leyland. However, the Indian version used the same engine and transmission as the regular Viking bus chassis. For India, the bus was clearly ahead of its time and it wasn't successful in the market. Sadly, the recent experience with low floors proves that for India, they are still ahead of time!
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Old 26th March 2015, 12:13   #22
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

In that era Leyland gave an option of 110 BHP AL370 or 135 BHP AL 402 engines.
There were two differential ratios available 41:6 for hilly region and 39:7 for the plains.
Both managed top speed in the mid 70's only.
The rear engine chassis was named Panther and had only the AL 402 option available.

Some ingenious mechanics had converted the AL402 into AL412 (160Bhp) by adding a turbo and re calibrating the fuel pumps. Coupled to 44:9 differential (Iveco engine export) it used to manage top speed in the mid 90's.

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Old 26th March 2015, 20:16   #23
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Did it look like the bus in the pircture below? In the early 1980s, Ashok Leyland had started manufacturing low floor, rear engined Leyland National integral buses, under license from its then collaborator British Leyland. However, the Indian version used the same engine and transmission as the regular Viking bus chassis. For India, the bus was clearly ahead of its time and it wasn't successful in the market. Sadly, the recent experience with low floors proves that for India, they are still ahead of time!

Yep, almost the same as this.
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Old 26th March 2015, 21:09   #24
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Yep, almost the same as this.
Great, my guess proved right! These buses were as modern as the low floor buses we see today. Only the transmission was manual. They didn't succeed in the market which was used to conventional, high ground clearance body on frame buses.
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Old 26th March 2015, 21:26   #25
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

Kerala has a few, http://lh6.ggpht.com/-PNIyg0C56sM/Ti...0/IMG_3372.jpg

I also remember JJTC Panther buses in Chennai.
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Old 27th March 2015, 08:09   #26
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

And in the papers today: BMTC (Bangalore) will auction 98 Marcopolo's - for 2 cr. It is scrap value .. works out to about 2L per bus ?
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Old 28th March 2015, 09:59   #27
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

Having experienced the DTC low floor buses both from inside and outside, here are my observations:
  1. Both AL and TATA LF buses are way better than the buses they replaced, although the new private Delhi Transit (orange) high floor buses (again both TATA and AL) quite comfortable. It shows that with proper coachwork, even the conventional front engined buses can also be a very good option. The Tata buses carry the Marcopolo label even in the Front engine versions.
  2. Where the low floor buses score over their conventional counterparts is effective speed- the combination of automation and a higher power engine than the front engined buses, and a short wheel base ensures that the buses take the same time as a conservatively driven car. Not that I approve of the way the buses are driven though.
  3. The conventional buses score on reliability- haven't yet seen one on the newer ones broken down yet. But it may have to do with the fact that the DTC drivers are very harsh to their vehicles- they lock down the transmission to lower gears for acceleration, and even when waiting at the signal don't go out of D mode.
  4. Between TATA and AL low floor buses, the former seems to have greater reliability as the private operator is only operating TATA LF buses. A DTC conductor once said that TATA has ironed out most of the flaws in the LF buses before Delhi Transit went for them. It is worth noting that the private operator is mainly relying on the conventional buses.
  5. The AC buses are horribly underpowered and break down very frequently, esp the AL ones.
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Old 29th March 2015, 22:47   #28
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Saw this TATA Marcopolo headed towards Electronic City on NICE road. Looks like it is headed for Kerala from the colors.
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Old 29th March 2015, 23:26   #29
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

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Saw this TATA Marcopolo headed towards Electronic City on NICE road. Looks like it is headed for Kerala from the colors.
You are spot on. This is one of the 97 buses that have been ordered by the KURTC (Kerala Urban Road Transport Corporation), as a part of the JnNURM-2 scheme. KURTC is the new corporation floated under the KSRTC, exclusively to operate city/urban services. Saw at least 5 such buses on trailers, at Walayar during the weekend.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 17:29   #30
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Default Re: Tata Motors to supply 4000 buses to state transport authorities

BMTC is asking for a refund for the TATA Marcopolo buses!

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...ews_2015-04-02
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