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Old 21st May 2015, 14:56   #16
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

Congratulations to the IAF. I was flabbergasted when I saw some photos today morning on the web. I hadn't read the story yet then.
But truly outstanding. The Yamuna Expressway was the ideal choice and the timing was right. Now, if only this could also be replicated on other such roads.
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Old 21st May 2015, 17:07   #17
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
As pointed out, multiple nations across the world, including some Europeans, have this ability/capability.

Its spectacular to see, and requires a lot of planning.

Although from the pilots point of view I imagine it is a pretty straigtforward visual landing (touch and go in this case) on a narrow runway. I wonder if they have any special procedure for this or not?

Jeroen
The road is first clean and made sure there's nothing that could damage the aircraft's engine. Apart from that I can't think of any other special procedure. The Pilots are very accurate while Landing and taking off.
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Old 21st May 2015, 17:20   #18
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by Amarkarthi View Post
There are more countries incluidng USA, Pakistan and Singapore who had already done this and has this capability. India had been planning this and never had done this before (confirmed with my father who is a retired IAF Fighter Pilot).
True. Pakistan did this for the first time in the year 2000, then again in 2010. From Wiki:

Quote:
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has used the M2 motorway as a runway on two occasions: for the first time in 2000 when it landed an F-7P fighter, a Super Mushak trainer and a C-130 and, again, in 2010. On the last occasion, the PAF used a runway section on the M2 motorway on 2 April 2010 to land, refuel and take-off two jet fighters, a Mirage III and an F-7P, during its Highmark 2010 exercise
Usually, only small portions of a highway are given the strength, smoothness and design features to enable aircraft landing. I'm curious to know whether the Mirage landed on such specially prepared stretch or the entire highway has been given that design capability.

More info on highway strip/road runway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip
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Old 21st May 2015, 17:50   #19
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by Monolithic View Post
The road is first clean and made sure there's nothing that could damage the aircraft's engine. Apart from that I can't think of any other special procedure. The Pilots are very accurate while Landing and taking off.
Yes, my thinking too. There might be load restrictions perhaps. Not sure how heavy these planes can be and still land without damaging the road. Compared to trucks they are not that heavy of course, but fighter like these have only three wheels to distribute the load and of course touching down put a bit of extra stress on the road service.

Does anybody know to what extend these roads are built/constructed differently from a regular road? I.e. Are there special stretches that are specifically re enforced perhaps, or is that not really necessary?

Every landing and take off needs to be accurate precise.

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Old 21st May 2015, 18:08   #20
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

GetLife, thank you for sharing. What a delight to see this. Good for the IAF. I hope the IAF develop this fully at many spots across the country. This practice was developed first by the Swedes in the 1960s and they built highways to ensure fighters could land and take off from and rehearsed it regularly. The threat from the USSR was the motivator.
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Old 21st May 2015, 18:30   #21
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by Dieseltuned View Post
Awesome job there, done by the IAF. This preparedness will help a lot if at all we face any emergencies.

Now, i had a few queries ::
1. Did the aircraft again take off from the Yamuna express way OR was it towed away ?
2. What criteria is taken into consideration while choosing a particular stretch of the highway ?
3. Is that stretch completely cordoned off for general public while this exercise is conducted, if yes, then will this be really helpful in real life situations ?

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Dieseltuned
Dieseltuned,
I think that the aircraft landed on the highway. Later it took-off; not towed away.

Besides the straight segment of 2-3 km free of poles etc, other criteria will be
  1. It shall be sufficiently away from the hills
  2. The patch shall not be weavy, it shall have uniform elevation.
  3. The patch shall be littlebit higher then the adjoining road, to avoid water logging. There shall be good drainage for the stormwater.

In the real life situation, such landings will be done only in the case of emergency (war or some specific emergency operation). So our everyday life will not be disrupted. In case of emergency, we will co-operate.
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Old 21st May 2015, 19:13   #22
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

Red Road in Kolkata is also capable of handling take off/landings of fighter planes.
This is what I was told during NCC days.
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Old 21st May 2015, 19:46   #23
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by sandip View Post
Red Road in Kolkata is also capable of handling take off/landings of fighter planes.
This is what I was told during NCC days.
Being capable is one thing and actually landing a fighter plane in full public view is another. This is the first reported case of IAF landing a fighter on highway. In fact, IAF's Jaguar fighter plane is designed to land on semi-prepared runways and uses low pressure tyres by design. Planes like C-130 and An-32 can land on unpaved runways.
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Old 21st May 2015, 20:08   #24
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

I saw some cynical tweets as to "whats the big deal Pakistan did it 10 years ago".

Goes to show that

(a) even Pakistan had better roads at least 10 years back.

(b) we take everything for granted - in this the superb road and our pilot's skill and training.

Recently IAF tested Juhu airstrip with the C-130J. And for last few years they are busy activating high Himalayan air stips.

Good to know that somebody is busy ensuring our freedom.
Attached Thumbnails
Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway-c130-juhu-march-2015-2614768.jpg  


Last edited by aditya101 : 21st May 2015 at 20:09.
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Old 21st May 2015, 20:14   #25
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Besides the straight segment of 2-3 km free of poles etc, other criteria will be
  1. It shall be sufficiently away from the hills
  2. The patch shall not be weavy, it shall have uniform elevation.
  3. The patch shall be littlebit higher then the adjoining road, to avoid water logging. There shall be good drainage for the stormwater.
Add - Also, should not be susceptible to heavy fog which YEP is notoriously famous for during winter season.

As this is an obvious simulation of war time scenario (using fighters rather than choppers, which are more capable during emergencies), they might conduct this exercise in various other states/regions as well obviously with change in factors (e.g. place, season, time of day, length of runway etc.)
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Old 21st May 2015, 20:51   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Being capable is one thing and actually landing a fighter plane in full public view is another. s.

So from a pilot point of view, what is special and or different landing on a runway or a road?

Jeroen
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Old 21st May 2015, 21:05   #27
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

For all the cynics out there - this is a good to have not need to have kind of capability for the IAF.

For countries like our neighbour - we can take out most of their Forward air bases with surgical strikes. They don't have the depth required strategically. Also most of their aircraft are short legged and will need landing spaces close by.

For India, our north west region is literally packed with airbases or commercial airports which can easily support these aircraft. Most of our aircraft (leaving the Mig21) have long ranges and endurance which allows them to use multiple areas for staging.

Kudos to the IAF for proving again that they are a professional well trained force and being able to do things which is otherwise considered difficult.
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Old 21st May 2015, 21:51   #28
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
So from a pilot point of view, what is special and or different landing on a runway or a road?

Jeroen
In this particular test, the aim was to see if a Mirage could land, the roads are good enough for emergencies or real time scenario.

Because if IAF wants to use expressway, there has to be a lot of changes. For pilots, there should be enough space for them to turn around, no obstructions nearby and capability of night landing. If a fighter with longer wingspan like Sukhoi or larger aircrafts like Illyushin IL76, the roads have to be very wide.

This is just a test, to see road landing is possible or not.
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Old 21st May 2015, 21:52   #29
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
What a delight to see this. Good for the IAF. I hope the IAF develop this fully at many spots across the country.
Dear V.Narayan,
I am impressed by your threads about fighters. I have a question and I think you are the right person to ask this.

Why to practise landing a fighter aircraft on highway?

For specific operation:
Is the helicopter not better? Like US used at Abbottabad? It does not need airstrip, it can carry 10-15 soldiers and some equipment. Fighter cannot do this.

For emergency landing during peace:
If the fighter develops any snag in flight and hence it needs to land ASAP, the pilot knows nearby airstrips. ATC too can help them for this. Airstrip is a better place to land, safer for the plane.

I have heard of civilian aircraft diverting to nearby airstrip due to technical problems; I have not heard fighter doing that. I am under the impression that they either land at the intended base or they crash i. e. fighter pilots never come across simple problems, which give them time to plan and execute an emergency landing on a nearby airstrip. And anyway, what are the chances that a suitable highway segment will be within the reach from the fighter's location?

Even if a fighter lands on a highway segment, is it not a big risk for the pilot's life considering that the road is not guaranteed to be free of debris, free of stray dogs, birds etc.?

If the airport is damaged during war:
But we protect the military airports, especially during the war. Still, if an airstrip can be attacked and damaged, highways can be even more easily attacked and damaged.

The enemy will have surely listed the potential highway segments; along with the airstrips, I suppose, he will also attack these segments.

So why to practise landing a fighter aircraft on highway?

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 21st May 2015 at 21:55.
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Old 21st May 2015, 22:04   #30
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Default Re: Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 test lands on the Yamuna Expressway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Dear V.Narayan,
I am impressed by your threads about fighters. I have a question and I think you are the right person to ask this.

Why to land a fighter aircraft on highway?

For specific operation:
Is the helicopter not better? Like US used at Abbottabad? It does not need airstrip, it can carry 10-15 soldiers and some equipment. Fighter cannot do this.

For emergency landing during peace:
If the fighter develops any snag in flight and hence it needs to land ASAP, the pilot knows nearby airstrips. ATC too can help them for this. Airstrip is a better place to land, safer for the plane.

I have heard of civilian aircraft diverting to nearby airstrip due to technical problems; I have not heard fighter doing that. I am under the impression that they either land at the intended base or they crash i. e. fighter pilots never come across simple problems, which give them time to plan and execute an emergency landing on a nearby airstrip. And anyway, what are the chances that a suitable highway segment will be within the reach from the fighter's location?

Even if a fighter lands on a highway segment, is it not a big risk for the pilot's life considering that the road is not guaranteed to be free of debris, free of stray dogs, birds etc.?

If the airport is damaged during war:
But we protect the military airports, especially during the war. Still, if an airstrip can be attacked and damaged, highways can be even more easily attacked and damaged.

The enemy will have surely listed the potential highway segments; along with the airstrips, I suppose, he will also attack these segments.

So why to land a fighter aircraft on highway?
You actually answered yourself. Airports can be attacked, both commercial and with great difficult IAF bases and stations. But it is not possible for an enemy aircraft to destroy many highways which are designed for IAF usage.

By the time a plane sets off to bomb all the highways, IAF fighter could catch up with it and prevent any further damage.

When you need to provide air support, helicopters carrying soldiers cannot do. They can anyone land wherever is suitable. This is specifically for aircrafts to continue operations in case the base's runway is damaged.

Fighter Planes are allowed to land at nearby airstrips. Many fighters have done so in the past. Highways with landing capability can prevent crashes but that would require quick response.

It is a risk to pilot and the aircraft with debris and dogs/animals. Unless there is a prior information that Aircraft wants to land, the risks cannot be avoided.
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