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Old 10th July 2015, 12:09   #1
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Default Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Came across this news on my twitter feed.

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@TataMotors bags an order to supply 1239 6x6 HMVs to the Indian Army–the largest land systems contract in recent times!
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Sharing some related tweets -

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Old 10th July 2015, 12:50   #2
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

From what I understand the requirement within the ARMY is very high. I have read some where that Armed Forces has a requirement of more than 10,000 heavy transport vehicles in terms of 6*6, 8*8 and more. This would fill in troop transport, Specialist Vehicles, Bridge Layers, Radars, Control/Communication etc. IA had selected TATA for the same and I think this would be the first order of the lot.
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Old 10th July 2015, 13:18   #3
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

I hope they go an extra mile and deliver excellent quality vehicles. An acquaintance of mine whose father used to be driver in ARMY driving such trucks says sub standard parts were used leading to the vehicle requiring frequent visits to ARMY workshop. He said the quality was worse than the commercial trucks TATA builds whereas the case should be reverse since these trucks will be the lifeline for our troops serving in the harsh borders.

AL trucks in the ARMY were much better built and rugged is what he used to say .
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Old 10th July 2015, 16:00   #4
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Tata Motors has bagged an order to supply 1,239 nos. of its high-mobility 6X6 multi-axle trucks to the Indian Army. This is the single largest order awarded to an Indian private OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) in land systems under the DPP by the Indian army. The order for 6X6 vehicles is for material handling cranes for the loading-unloading and transportation of ammunition pallets, spares and other operational equipment.

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Tata Motors claims that the indigenously developed Tata 6X6 high mobility all-terrain vehicle, has completed a total trial duration of 25 months. The vehicle has gone through trials like water-fording, on cross country terrains and plains and at VRDE’s (Vehicle Research & Development Establishment) torture track. It is designed to cope with extreme on or off-road loads.

The Tata 6X6 is fitted with central tyre inflation system (CTIS), which allows the driver to adjust the tyre pressure from his seat. The system provides the vehicle with better traction on different types of surfaces. The vehicle has a self-recovery winch as well. The vehicles cabin is modular with heating, ventilation, and air-conditioning and is fully ready for up-armouring.

The vehicle is capable of achieving sustained speeds of 40 kmph, on cross country terrains.

The Tata Motors 6X6 high-mobility multi-axle vehicle can be customised for applications such as:
  • CGT (Common Gun Tower)
  • MBRL (Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher)
  • MFU (Missile Firing Unit)
  • MSV (Missile Service Vehicle)
  • FSV (Field Service Vehicle)
  • SRSAM (Short Range Surface to Air Missile)
  • QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile) vehicle
  • LLQRM (Low Level Quick Reaction Missile) vehicle
  • MRV (Medium Recovery Vehicle)
Tata Motors has created a focused division to design and develop defence technologies and products, at its manufacturing facilities in Jamshedpur and Pune. The company also has a dedicated service team and network for defence products, across the length and breadth of the country.

Last edited by Aditya : 10th July 2015 at 16:01.
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Old 10th July 2015, 16:13   #5
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Not sure if its right to ask, but what about the light vehicle that the army had required and Tata,Mahindra and Nissan were keen to supply.
Has that deal been closed or had Maruti again supplied Gypsys.
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Old 10th July 2015, 19:01   #6
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Looks massive, and purpose built to suit the army's requirements. And an order of 1000 plus trucks will give the necessary volumes for Tata too.

on an unrelated note, in the pic of the truck above, I couldn't help noticing that the truck is parked entirely on the yellow stripes marked on the pavement. In almost all countries, the yellow stripes indicate that the area en-marked is not to be used for driving or parking, mainly because it may not be capable of carrying the weight. Not sure if this carries a different meaning in India.
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Old 10th July 2015, 19:11   #7
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

I am not sure if this is the single largest order from the Indian Army. There were not many Stallions being supplied and they are the largest fleet of Logistics vehicles in Indian Army. Many times, it was easily 1500+ vehicles in a single order.

Last edited by GTO : 11th July 2015 at 12:37. Reason: Language
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Old 11th July 2015, 01:05   #8
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

From a defence forum by an ex-Pakistani officer:

We had several problems with these trucks in Sudan 2009. As per SOP we were instructed to operate the Tata trucks that were brought by the Indian ASC contingent. We were transporting people and rations to Juba...it was a 34 hour drive . I had an Indian accompanying me. We were having the usual talk about how officers from infantry are idiots and don't understand the logistics, and then the two forward trucks of our convoy came to a stand still. Their engine and radiators were completely blown out and when it came to repair, it took us 5 hours. They still couldn't get them to work.

Eventually, the ASC officer told me that the trucks were causing consistent problems and because of the higher lobby, they had to make do with them . After that, we called our own Hinopak trucks.

Then we ourselves had to tow them. We had a repair facility. The problem with the trucks that TATA produced is that they are incapable of handling temperatures above 52 degrees. We returned them deeming them as obsolete.

We and Indian Army eventually decided that for long transport, Pakistan trucks will be used. Indians could provide security for the convoys.

Last edited by GTO : 11th July 2015 at 12:40. Reason: Language
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Old 11th July 2015, 06:49   #9
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Tata Motors has created a focused division to design and develop defence technologies and products, at its manufacturing facilities in Jamshedpur and Pune. The company also has a dedicated service team and network for defence products, across the length and breadth of the country.
Finally! After decades of watching various foreign Heavy Land system trucks do duty on behalf of the Indian army (especially on parade days), a domestic manufacturer has decisively put its hand up and stepped in with an Indian replacement. This was long overdue for an industrialised country like ours.

India's initial acquisition 'Tatra' were excellent products no doubt, but vested interests within the firm and Indian bureaucracy ensured things went downhill over the last 30 years. Dubious spares, poor quality control from BEML, overcharging from Tatra, inability to hit localisation targets despite the duration and finally a change in government has finally opened up everyone's eyes.

Ravi Rishi and his Vectra group have made enough money out of this arrangement, time to look elsewhere.

Its a brave move by Tata to invest time, money and effort into such a niche product primarily aimed at just one buyer for now. It looks like their efforts have been rewarded but it will be the long term success of the LPTA series that will define its legacy. There has to be a transparent and trustworthy relationship between the client and vendor for such a new engagement to prosper. I hope Tata's indigenous effort and the Indian Army's latest acquisition bolsters into a win-win relationship for both parties concerned, keeping the nation both safe and proud.
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Old 11th July 2015, 09:49   #10
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Tata motors should offer modified land rovers to IA(now that they have the controlling stake in JLR)--it is much more technologically advanced vehicle compared to the Mahindra Axe, and other vehicles in the competition.
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Old 11th July 2015, 20:07   #11
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by john doe View Post
From a defence forum by an ex-Pakistani officer:

We had several problems with these trucks in Sudan 2009. As per SOP we were instructed to operate the Tata trucks that were brought by the Indian ASC contingent. We were transporting people and rations to Juba...it was a 34 hour drive . I had an Indian accompanying me. We were having the usual talk about how officers from infantry are idiots and don't understand the logistics, and then the two forward trucks of our convoy came to a stand still. Their engine and radiators were completely blown out and when it came to repair, it took us 5 hours. They still couldn't get them to work.

Eventually, the ASC officer told me that the trucks were causing consistent problems and because of the higher lobby, they had to make do with them . After that, we called our own Hinopak trucks.

Then we ourselves had to tow them. We had a repair facility. The problem with the trucks that TATA produced is that they are incapable of handling temperatures above 52 degrees. We returned them deeming them as obsolete.

We and Indian Army eventually decided that for long transport, Pakistan trucks will be used. Indians could provide security for the convoys.

There is no way to verify that person's identity or his claim.

Tata trucks have proven their worth in the toughest environments, if they can handle the abuse that civil operators put them through they will certainly do well under the professional operating practices of the forces.

Also, the IA are not fools and the trucks were trialled for 24 months. Everybody knows that the IA's testing protocols are amongst the toughest in the world.

I don't think any purpose is served here by posting mudslinging type allegations and conspiracy theories.

Last edited by GTO : 13th July 2015 at 13:14. Reason: Lets not make sweeping statements against those from a particular nationality. Thanks
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Old 12th July 2015, 00:15   #12
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

These 2 parts of your post as quoted above, I agree with you 100% !

About the rest, I don't know, really. Tata has had lots of High Profile failures , despite all the testing in the world.

Think: the 1st Indica, the 1st Nano and the rear engine buses that they have sold all over the country (IIRC)

I am the owner of a Tata Nano ( that I love to death) and also a Tata 909 . Trust me, there's a lot of failures that I have faced with Tata.

Last edited by GTO : 13th July 2015 at 13:15. Reason: Removing quoted post which has been edited
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Old 12th July 2015, 11:44   #13
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Default re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by samoka91 View Post
Tata motors should offer modified land rovers to IA(now that they have the controlling stake in JLR)--it is much more technologically advanced vehicle compared to the Mahindra Axe, and other vehicles in the competition.
Not really Samoka. I agree that the 'Snatch 2 Land Rovers' were the tried and tested work horse of the British army and LR's various iterations have been used by defence forces all over the world for many decades. But the requirements in the ever-changing defence scenario globally means that the game has moved on and vehicles like the Land Rover doesn't cut the mustard any more.

The changes in the global defence scenario and advent of highly challenging opponents like various rebel and terrorist outfits mean that the requirements from light military vehicles are much broader. Increasing use of tactics like ambush attacks and IED's (Improvsed Explosive Devices eg. triggered Road Side Bombs...) by adversaries, mean that the vehicles need a much higher grade of protection among other things. The light Land Rovers were very vulnerable in Iraq and Afghanistan and hence the British Army looked for a replacement.

Similarly India's requirement for the next generation of Light vehicles reflect a similar sentiment and its unlikely the 'Snatch 2' variant can meet them. Albeit Tata does have an LAMV concept which it is proposing for the tender.



Tata developed this in conjunction with Supacat Ltd a UK company experienced in providing mobility solutions for various European forces. The LAMV protects its crew crew using a bespoke composite and ceramic 'pod' developed by Morgan Advanced Materials. The composite pod creates a detachable, blast and ballistic-resistant crew compartment, which also provides a weight saving in excess of 1000kg, making it less than half the weight of a similarly protected steel structure. This ultimately ensures the vehicle retains high mobility along with the armoured protection.

Last edited by shortbread : 12th July 2015 at 11:46.
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Old 12th July 2015, 11:58   #14
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Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
what about the light vehicle that the army had required and Tata,Mahindra and Nissan were keen to supply.
Has that deal been closed or had Maruti again supplied Gypsys.
From what I read recently, that deal has been given to Tata Storme and Mahindra Scorpios. If it's true, the Gypsy is officially RIP.
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Old 13th July 2015, 11:17   #15
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Default Re: Tata bags order to supply 1,239 units of 6x6 HMV to the Indian Army

Regarding some reliability concerns raised, I think they may have some merit in them.
I find Tata Motors to be a volume player and defence orders are always low volumes.
So, Tata wins the bid on the basis of pricing of volume products and then tries to make customized products, specifically in case of strategic businesses.
Now, the level of customization is very high for defence orders and hence its suppliers have to invest in and make a special product for low volume at high volume level prices.
This causes the suppliers to find the easiest route at the lowest cost at the expense of quality. (natural for them as such things affect their financial performance)
Tatas must up their design game to offer robust and VFM products for defence and also keep the suppliers happy
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