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Old 30th July 2015, 12:29   #1
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Default BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen.
One of my colleagues took this picture yesterday evening near Silk Board, Bangalore. This is from the BMTC Public Transport Volvo.

BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message-img_20150729_183208.jpg

BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message-img_20150729_183201.jpg

He was in the neighbouring bus and noticed this message. It clearly is warning of the Brake System Failure
Yet it is being driven on the roads putting a lot of people's life in danger.

Mods: Please move it into a relevant thread if this is not the right place for this post.

Last edited by hemanth.anand : 30th July 2015 at 12:32.
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:39   #2
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
He was in the neighbouring bus and noticed this message. It clearly is warning of the Brake System Failure
Yet it is being driven on the roads putting a lot of people's life in danger.
These buses have various sensors - multiple pressure sensors, brake pad wear sensors, valve feedbacks etc. If any of the harnesses are loose or wires damaged due to abrasions (thanks to the "excellent" roads in the city), the MID shows errors like these. It is up to the BMTC to ensure that such messages are heeded to and the system checked. However, the mechanical systems will function reliably, which the drivers and technicians are counting on, probably after physical inspection.

The point to note is, when there's a catastrophic failure the driver will not be able to make out what's going wrong before it's too late. The whole point of providing such information is to avoid accidents and improve safety.

This is not an isolated incident, as I've seen every other Volvo city bus being driven around with various such warning messages - ranging from a harmless high-beam bulb-out to a deadly brake system component failure.
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:39   #3
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen.

He was in the neighbouring bus and noticed this message. It clearly is warning of the Brake System Failure
Yet it is being driven on the roads putting a lot of people's life in danger.
I have seen this message in a lot of BMTC volvo busses(in more than 60-70% of the busses that I have been on), but I have never seen a brake failure on a volvo yet. Once the driver even mentioned that these are mostly sensor issues due to substandard repairs carried out in their workshops which BMTC doesn't care to fix.

It is just that BMTC pays for all these advanced diagnostic features, but do not care use them!

Last edited by SR71-Blackbird : 30th July 2015 at 12:42.
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:43   #4
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen...

He was in the neighbouring bus and noticed this message. It clearly is warning of the Brake System Failure.
If you observe carefully, 99% of the BMTC Volvo buses, including the Airport buses, have this message.

Chalta Hai ... someone said - We go on "Ram-bharose" and Ram goes on "Hanuman-bharose"
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:24   #5
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen.
One of my colleagues took this picture yesterday evening near Silk Board, Bangalore. This is from the BMTC Public Transport Volvo.
.
BTW if others have not seen this earlier, the driver is sitting with his left leg crossed on the seat. This is a very common posture for these Volvo drivers, sometimes even holding a newspaper on the left while driving with the right hand and leg.
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:24   #6
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen.
One of my colleagues took this picture yesterday evening near Silk Board, Bangalore. This is from the BMTC Public Transport Volvo.
Yes as others mentioned I think this is the case with most of the BMTC Volvo's. They will have one or the other problems and the main problem is the negligent driver's who drive like maniacs. If you see the first pic, the driver has one of his legs on the seat and controls the bus in one leg (although I understand it's always one leg used to operate these automatic buses), but my point here is how attentive can the driver be with a relaxed position. Also I have seen many driver's with one of their hands behind the seat as if sitting in a sofa. Hope some basic disciplines are taught to these Volvo drivers
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:44   #7
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
The point to note is, when there's a catastrophic failure the driver will not be able to make out what's going wrong before it's too late.
Yes, that was Exactly the point I wanted to make. Its ok to have minor errors like blown bulb or something similar. but Brake system!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SR71-Blackbird View Post
I have never seen a brake failure on a volvo yet. Once the driver even mentioned that these are mostly sensor issues due to substandard repairs carried out in their workshops which BMTC doesn't care to fix.
Actually I myself have driven a Tata Safari with Engine Check failure for over 10000kms. We had taken the vehicle and the service guy had told that it is the sensor problem and it is ok to drive.

I can digest these false alarms on a vehicle from Tata but I didn't expect it from Volvo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravindra M View Post
If you observe carefully, 99% of the BMTC Volvo buses, including the Airport buses, have this message.

Chalta Hai ... someone said - We go on "Ram-bharose" and Ram goes on "Hanuman-bharose"
Unfortunately you are right! This callous attitude is why India is on top of the global list of fatalities due to road accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
BTW if others have not seen this earlier, the driver is sitting with his left leg crossed on the seat. This is a very common posture for these Volvo drivers, ...
I saw that, but two things:
1. it is an automatic vehicle
2. the bus was waiting at a signal
So we can excuse him for that IMO
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:52   #8
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
I saw that, but two things:
1. it is an automatic vehicle
2. the bus was waiting at a signal
So we can excuse him for that IMO
I do know these buses have AT as I used to travel in them frequently while I was working in Banagalore.
But my concern is, I have seen them drive at 80 kmph while sitting in the same posture. I have also seen them reading a newspaper with right hand while the Volvo is crawling through slow moving traffic near signals. Automatic or not, the vehicle has been designed so as to sit properly and drive it and IMO, one follow it to avoid some untoward incident.

Last edited by ashis89 : 30th July 2015 at 14:02.
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:56   #9
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
BTW if others have not seen this earlier, the driver is sitting with his left leg crossed on the seat. This is a very common posture for these Volvo drivers, sometimes even holding a newspaper on the left while driving with the right hand and leg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionbang View Post
...but my point here is how attentive can the driver be with a relaxed position. Also I have seen many driver's with one of their hands behind the seat as if sitting in a sofa
These buses have an AT, so he can relax his left leg (not that I'm condoning his posture). What would you call some of the KaSRTC Airavat drivers who activate the cruise control and sit like this BMTC driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
I can digest these false alarms on a vehicle from Tata but I didn't expect it from Volvo
Had it been a Tata, the bus wouldn't have been running. In this case, it can be a faulty harness or a sensor, thanks to the conditions in which the buses are (ab)used.
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Old 30th July 2015, 14:53   #10
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Default Re: Accidents in India - PICS

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
This is not an Accident but definitely an accident waiting to happen.
One of my colleagues took this picture yesterday evening near Silk Board, Bangalore. This is from the BMTC Public Transport Volvo.
Once after seeing these various warning, I asked the driver shouldn't he stop the bus as suggested by the warning message.

He started describing his version about braking system in Volvo buses, that there are 3 brake checks which has to be done before the bus starts moving. There should not be fatal error or something like that, other than its fine to move the bus.

If more than 1 brake fails, then the bus automatically goes in to limp mode so that they can limp/creep to the service station.

I really never gave too much thought in to this theory of his, but I think now its time to search the net for more information.

Anybody has any manual for these warning lights in Volvo buses?

Regards
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Old 30th July 2015, 16:30   #11
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Default Re: BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

I have noticed this many times in BMTC Volvos and they care nothing at all.

Apart from this, once near Haveri when the KSRTC B9R jumped a diversion badly (Those days NH4 was bad), the warning message on the MID read "Brake Retartder Failure" and the driver continued driving and when asked why, he said it was normal.
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Old 30th July 2015, 18:42   #12
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Default Re: BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

I have seen many buses with these errors and was shocked and at the same time angry on the maintenance folks who have shown no care towards these buses. In fact the way these buses have survived the wrath of the corrupt and careless people at workshops itself shows how rugged they have been.

Coming to the braking system the buses have Volvo's EBS - An electronically managed braking system which combines and blends the wheel brakes, retarder and associated features. A failure of EBS or malfunction in the various sensors will disable the EBS. The bus then switches to a manual and direct air braking setup without any computer intervention. That's when such errors are thrown up.

For the people in the depot, these errors mean nothing. As long as the bus is able to stop, they dispatch it. Neither do they care about the message, nor about the bus overall. A very sad sight to see some buses in a run down condition. Many have failed suspensions, performance issues and what not. In the end the officials will just claim that these buses require a lot of maintenance and wash their hands off. Moreover, a retarder failure is a much serious issue on the outstation buses compared to the city ones. It's a dangerous thing to rely only upon the wheel brakes since the retarders take considerable braking loads at high speeds. Careless is the only word that comes to my mind.

Interestingly, I have come across buses with errors related to the lights. But if they don't care about the brakes itself, why would they bother about lights

But that picture is a superb catch. Eagle eyes.

Last edited by audioholic : 30th July 2015 at 18:53.
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Old 30th July 2015, 19:02   #13
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Default Re: BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

I traveled in a Volvo today with same issue. The brake failure symbol was on.Also It was making an irritating chiming sound which was audible in the entire bus. The driver was unmindful as usual.
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Old 30th July 2015, 20:38   #14
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Default Re: BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
...the warning message on the MID read "Brake Retartder Failure" and the driver continued driving and when asked why, he said it was normal.
Brake retarder failure is far less critical. Retarder is a device that is fitted onto the prop shaft to provide additional braking force. These buses, not only Volvo, but certain models from our homegrown giants - AL and TML too have retarder as a standard fitment or offered as an optional upgrade - to improve braking.
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Old 30th July 2015, 21:28   #15
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Default Re: BMTC Volvo - "Brake System Failure" Message

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Brake retarder failure is far less critical. Retarder is a device that is fitted onto the prop shaft to provide additional braking force. These buses, not only Volvo, but certain models from our homegrown giants - AL and TML too have retarder as a standard fitment or offered as an optional upgrade - to improve braking.
Thanks silversteed. Soon after this trip, I had googled and found out what exactly a break retarder was back then as it was something new for me too.

However, I posted here only to highlight how the drivers completely ignore these messages and keep driving.
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