Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th March 2016, 16:06   #1
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,316
Thanked: 23,892 Times
Default Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Ashok Leyland has won orders valued at Rs. 800-crore from the Indian armed forces. The company will supply 450 units of Field Artillery Tractor (FAT) 6x6 and other similar Super Stallion vehicles, and 825 units of Ambulance 4x4.

Field Artillery Tractor (FAT) 6x6:
Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore-field-artillery-tractor-6x6.jpg
A Field Artillery Tractor (FAT) 6x6 on the Super Stallion platform will function as a Common Gun Tower for all artillery guns. The FAT provides the Army flexibility in rapid deployment and utilisation of artillery resources. The vehicle can be used for a variety of applications across logistics and tactical segments.

Ambulance 4x4:
Name:  Ambulance 4x4.png
Views: 2774
Size:  701.0 KB
The air-conditioned Ambulance 4x4 will provide enhanced medical support in the immediate aftermath of injuries. The vehicle has a double-walled insulated body to maintain inside temperature and rear air-suspension. According to Ashok Leyland, all the equipment meets Advanced Life Support standards.

Ashok Leyland is the largest supplier of logistics vehicles to the Indian Army.
Aditya is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2017, 00:39   #2
BHPian
 
PraNeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 345
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

The production version of FAT 6x6 has come out. I must say it looks impressive.

PraNeel is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2017, 16:45   #3
BHPian
 
PraNeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 345
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Here is one more video this monster which gives some more details. If we can produce such machines in our country, then why do we buy Tatra etc?

PraNeel is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2017, 00:45   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
If we can produce such machines in our country, then why do we buy Tatra etc?
Hope this part of the statement wasn't made in a haste!

Pardon my ignorance, but, has AL or Tata made a similar system?

1100D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2017, 01:52   #5
BHPian
 
PraNeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 345
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Hope this part of the statement wasn't made in a haste!

Pardon my ignorance, but, has AL or Tata made a similar system?
No Sir, this statement was not made in a haste. You have focused on only one feature / tech used in Tatra trucks. However, it is not necessary that local manufacturers can't come up with a product of similar capability through other way.

Tatra trucks were sold to Indian Army at an inflated cost and was a major scam. Link

Tata and AL were not given the opportunity to supply 6 and 8 wheeled drive trucks even though they were supplying light and medium utility truck to armed forces from decades. Manohar Parrikar partially lifted the ban on Tatra trucks for parts and pursued the indigenous replacement from Tata and AL. FAT 6x6 is one of the outcome. Link

And the question was raised before A K Antony but the priorities were somewhere else! Link

Tata and AL might not employ Tatra backbone tube concept, but I am sure they will come out with an equally competent product. And they have to do so otherwise the products will not be approved by the Army.

Last edited by PraNeel : 11th September 2017 at 01:53.
PraNeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2017, 09:59   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
You have focused on only one feature / tech used in Tatra trucks. However, it is not necessary that local manufacturers can't come up with a product of similar capability through other way.

Tatra trucks were sold to Indian Army at an inflated cost and was a major scam.
Tata and AL might not employ Tatra backbone tube concept, but I am sure they will come out with an equally competent product. And they have to do so otherwise the products will not be approved by the Army.
So what is the proposition for meeting the flexibility and the independent wheel travel that the backbone-tube concept allows? With a conventional ladder frame and solid axles?

The back bone tube concept is not a "feature", it is "the" reason why these trucks are chosen world over.

Hope no one has questions about the immense offroad capability that the Tatra's present. Yet to see tech/capability demonstration of AL and Tata on similar lines.
1100D is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2017, 10:23   #7
BHPian
 
SandyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KL
Posts: 258
Thanked: 531 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

It's not really fair to taunt Tatra whenever any indigenous military truck comes out. Tatra is gonna stay on special duty no matter what because it is special. The patented backbone tube with swinging half axles on Tatra has no substitute so far from any of the Indian manufacturers. On top of that the engines are air cooled on the T815 in Indian use which translate to lower maintenance.

This is what Wiki says:

Quote:
Swing axles were supplanted in general use by De Dion tube axles in the late 1960s, though live axles remained the most common. Most rear suspensions have been replaced by more modern independent suspensions in recent years, and both swing and deDion types are virtually unused today.

One exception is the Czech truck manufacturer Tatra, which uses swing axles on a central 'backbone' tube since 1923 (model Tatra 11) instead of more common solid axles. This system is claimed to give greater rigidity and better performance on poor quality roads and off road. There the inherent reduced stability on roads is compensated by an increased stability on rough terrain, allowing for higher off-road speeds, else being equal. This is especially manifested in long 6+ wheel vehicles where offroad chassis twisting can be a major issue.
Go through this to better understand why the Tatra is highly coveted, this time in the context of Dakar.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...ways-finds-way

Just because there's a scam is no reason to belittle the equipment. Indian brands with their traditional designs may also do the job but a Tatra would do it much better. It was chosen for a reason, & it's only unfortunate the politicians ruined it as well.

Last edited by SandyX : 11th September 2017 at 10:25.
SandyX is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2017, 00:52   #8
BHPian
 
PraNeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 345
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
So what is the proposition for meeting the flexibility and the independent wheel travel that the backbone-tube concept allows? With a conventional ladder frame and solid axles?

The back bone tube concept is not a "feature", it is "the" reason why these trucks are chosen world over.

Hope no one has questions about the immense offroad capability that the Tatra's present. Yet to see tech/capability demonstration of AL and Tata on similar lines.
Once again you have concentrated on backbone tube concept and have not looked at other factors like cost, ease of maintenance and above all indigenous. And it is not necessary that Tatra is unbeatable because it has got the best suspension tech. The Tata 12x12 TEL (Transporter erector launcher) fares better for it's intended use than Tatra 12x12.

Quote:
The LPTA 5252 has a payload capacity of 33 t. Vehicle is relatively simple in terms of design and technology. It is worth mentioning that the Tatra 12x12 truck, which is currently used as a TEL vehicle for Brahmos missiles has some limitations in maximum payload and axle capacity. Hence only three Brahmos missiles are carried by a single Tatra launcher vehicle in stead of four. The new Tata truck offers more flexibility in terms of a number of axles and maximum load capacity. Link
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyX View Post
It's not really fair to taunt Tatra whenever any indigenous military truck comes out.
No one is taunting Tatra, however the statement was more inclined towards why can't we do the same in our country? And buying Tatra is not cheap.
BTW Tatra has made a comeback in 2016 and it is still selling products to Indian armed forces. Link

Quote:
On top of that the engines are air cooled on the T815 in Indian use which translate to lower maintenance.
Nope, not really.

Quote:
The Tatra trucks being supplied to the Indian Army are obsolete, running on fuel-guzzling old engines with mechanical transmissions that are years behind the rest of the world, Army sources said.

The 'air cooled' engines are low on power and have poor mileage. "Nobody seemed to have bothered about the technological transformations that have taken place in the automobile industry," an officer said about the fact that Army continues to use the same T-815 trucks even today. The T-815 trucks are fuel guzzlers. A truck that can carry 12 tonnes runs just 4 km on a liter of fuel. A source pointed out that Tatra's more advanced vehicles were far superior. "But we seem to have been a dumpyard for old vehicles" he said.
Link
PraNeel is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2017, 15:07   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,179
Thanked: 2,360 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
Once again you have concentrated on backbone tube concept and have not looked at other factors like cost, ease of maintenance and above all indigenous. And it is not necessary that Tatra is unbeatable because it has got the best suspension tech.
Maintenance/Cost/Indigenous are separate aspects from offroad competence. As far as offroad prowess goes Tatra's rank way above whatever our country has been producing at this stage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
The Tata 12x12 TEL (Transporter erector launcher) fares better for it's intended use than Tatra 12x12.
"Does the job/serves the purpose" does not mean, fares better. Going by your posts, you will bring in factors of price/maintainabilty. However, according to me, our Army deserves best (without any sort of compromise).

I have been keeping an eye on the developments from our Local Manufacturers. Also am aware that, Tata has a 6x6 with a stronger engine than this AL FAT 6X6. I am all for the local manufacturers, upping their game. But bragging that they are better than Tatra's will not serve any purpose.

In our country we have had scams over everything. The presence of the scams dont necessarily mean that the corresponding products were over-rated.

For example, the Bofors scam. Despite the scam, it is widely believed that the gun played a huge part in winning Kargil back.
1100D is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2017, 15:40   #10
BHPian
 
PraNeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 345
Thanked: 836 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Maintenance/Cost/Indigenous are separate aspects from offroad competence. As far as offroad prowess goes Tatra's rank way above whatever our country has been producing at this stage.
Armed forces don't participate in offroad events to win them. They need decent offroad capability to transport troops and equipment and Indian products are capable of that.

Quote:
"Does the job/serves the purpose" does not mean, fares better. Going by your posts, you will bring in factors of price/maintainabilty. However, according to me, our Army deserves best (without any sort of compromise).
The main purpose of TEL is to carry missiles. How come Tatra 12x12 becomes best when it can carry only 3 Brahmos missiles while the Tata 12x12 can carry more?

Quote:
In our country we have had scams over everything. The presence of the scams don't necessarily mean that the corresponding products were over-rated.
We always have a perception that whatever is indigenous especially military hardware is inferior to the foreign ones. Tatra T815 were outdated models which were sold to Indian Army at inflated prices. While their updated versions were on sale in the world.
Quote:
For example, the Bofors scam. Despite the scam, it is widely believed that the gun played a huge part in winning Kargil back.
No doubt about that, however Bofors never fulfilled the offset contract and just provided some dumb documentation to us. DRDO ATAGS which is built from scratch has a set a world record in hitting target range. Link

I don't have anything against Tatra and as pointed out in previous post they are back. But with a difference that they are now selling the latest products at lower costs. Indian Army became the largest operator of Tatra trucks because no other option was considered due to scams. Tata and AL are now coming out with products which cater to the Indian army needs. Tatra is also there and this will lead to more competition and push all the manufacturers to come up with the best product for army. And Army will choose the best product.

I rest my case. Thanks

Last edited by PraNeel : 12th September 2017 at 15:57.
PraNeel is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2017, 18:33   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Ashley2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NH7
Posts: 2,092
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
Here is one more video this monster which gives some more details. If we can produce such machines in our country, then why do we buy Tatra etc?

He is complaining about the engine refinement and A pillar visibility. These trucks have much better visibility than what the City and Civic have been providing for ages. They have the lesser blind spots and have great visibility as well. He hasn't spoken anything about payload, gradeability (except driving on a few gradients), torque and other off-road capabilities.

Shapur Kotwal, honestly, you need to grow up and not just look at trucks and drive them like how you do with cars. You will need to look at utility and driver point of view, before driving. And finally, you need to drive them as a driver and not an owner.

Last edited by Aditya : 14th September 2017 at 00:17. Reason: Grammar
Ashley2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2017, 09:44   #12
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,163
Thanked: 3,759 Times
Default Re: Ashok Leyland bags defence contracts worth Rs. 800 crore

Good to see Ashok Leyland enter this market. Tata are already there. I wish one or more private manufacturers enter this market. This will break the monopoly of the PSUs.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Defence vehicles: Ashok Leyland gets Lockheed Martin platform Aditya Commercial Vehicles 0 23rd March 2016 17:08
Ashok Leyland bags 3,600 vehicle order worth $200 million from Côte d’Ivoire a4anurag Commercial Vehicles 1 28th November 2015 13:39
Ashok Leyland to be renamed as Hinduja Leyland? Ashley2 Commercial Vehicles 8 15th April 2011 13:14
Bad news for NH-4 drivers - GQ contracts terminated nadigar Shifting gears 12 16th February 2010 22:42
Alonso and Piquet renew their contracts until 2010 jraj Int'l Motorsport 13 30th November 2008 12:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:08.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks