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Old 19th April 2016, 20:01   #16
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not sure if that is a requirement as such? By whom?
It's definitely an issue of course, although it is not just altitude but also time exposure and latitude that need to be factored in

http://aircrewhealth.com/Topics/hazards/radiation.htm

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Its a CAR requirement. Not sure about JAR/ FAA though.
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Old 19th April 2016, 22:13   #17
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by searchingheaven View Post
Bombardier LearJet 60XR Review.

Flew in a Learjet 60XR for the first time. At 49000 ft, very close to the service ceiling. I was the only passenger, so the pilots went all out.
[*]My phone's compass isn't accurate enough compared to the million dollar one on the Learjet.[/list]

Attachment 1496650
Great to see something different than our regular 2-4 wheelers. I've just one question to ask, you are using Ulysses speedometer, does it interfere with the flying of a regular commercial airliner like a A320 or B737? How did you use it, in operational mode or flight mode?
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Old 19th April 2016, 22:39   #18
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I so wanted to pursue flying after 10th, had even got my l20 form from school in Texas, but the family had to push me in engineering to ensure that I can earn my daily bread 😂

I still have a inner hope that once The kids go their way I will have some steam left to go fly

On that note, is there a way a 45 yr guy can get in professional flying


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Old 19th April 2016, 22:43   #19
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
Does it interfere with the flying of a regular commercial airliner like a A320 or B737?
No, a GPS receiver does not interfere with a aircraft's' instruments at all. The radio should however be turned off. We sometime hear static/interference on the headsets if we have our phone radios switched on. So it is preferable if you keep your phone in flight mode and switch on the GPS manually.

Source: I was flying with a BA crew from Heathrow to Cardiff in a B777W, which was going for a B-Check. They also assured me of this.

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Aha, the ulysse speedometer? I always wonder what it would be like to shoot the milky way from that altitude! And did you ever fly at night above 50 north? The Aurora's must be spectacular!
Yes, we were flying above 50 north, so we did see some spectacular northern lights. Believe me, there is no camera in this world that can do justice to the real thing. When I first saw them, it was as if I was in a dream. It is really that good. From an aircraft however, it appears diffused throughout the whole sky. I will upload some pictures that we took up there in a day or two.

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Originally Posted by Anupam View Post
I still have a inner hope that once The kids go their way I will have some steam left to go fly.
On that note, is there a way a 45 yr guy can get in professional flying.
I hate to break your heart, but professionally, it going to be very difficult. Airlines do not like to hire “old” inexperienced pilots. They prefer to hire fresh young ab-initio pilots (20-25 years old). In the current market situation for pilots, it is already difficult for students just out of the major flight schools to find a job, so I it is even harder for the others.

But, you can surely get your PPL and fly on your own. That is one of the most rewarding experiences ever. If you're still in the States, I can help you with it.

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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
Nice Review!! What sector were you guys flying on? Since this aircraft has a ceiling of 51000 ft, there must have been a radiation indicator as well. Did you happen to see the radiation level on that ??
Thank you for the compliment, RVD.

Just FYI, FAA does not have any mandatory requirements as such for radiation exposure measurement. Anyway, the amount of radiation we are exposed to is quite minute. On our flight from London to Stockholm, we received 22.70 μSv, which is quite small. For comparison, 100 μSv is the radiation you receive during a dental x-ray.
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Last edited by searchingheaven : 19th April 2016 at 22:59.
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Old 19th April 2016, 23:03   #20
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by batterylow View Post
Excellent

Reminds me of the "Ultimate ground speed check" narrated by Brian Schul flying the Sled

Linked here, in case anyone is interested.
Maybe this is slightly off topic on the subject here, but I really loved this excerpt with regards to the "Ultimate ground speed check"
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Old 20th April 2016, 09:56   #21
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by Anupam View Post
I still have a inner hope that once The kids go their way I will have some steam left to go fly

On that note, is there a way a 45 yr guy can get in professional flying
P
As searchinghaven already wrote, chances are small. But certainly in the USA it is possible.

I'm a subscriber to FlyingMagazine. One of their contributors is a retired surgeon who became after retirement a professional pilot, flying business jets. He is now a captain, well past his mid60's. He was a private pilot to start with but still!.



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Old 20th April 2016, 14:20   #22
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

Woaah... What a thread !!! Totally different from regular ones and I loved every bit of it. Had never thought that flying can be so interesting. It has certainly aroused my interest in this field. May be perhaps one day I will learn to fly !!!
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Old 20th April 2016, 15:28   #23
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

Awesome thread guys, a poor commerce guy here envies you tech savvy pilots. I recently flew Biman Bangladesh (Don't ask why ;-), an ATR aircraft ride from Dhaka to Chittagong. It was the first time i flew in such an aircraft and i always heard stories of how bumpy the ride is, but to my pleasant surprise the ride was fantastic. it was smooth, no sudden stomach crouching moments, and it landed smoothly. might be also because the weather was clear, but it was an interesting experience to fly an ATR.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:50   #24
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by Viju View Post
Very interesting thread indeed. Loved reading it.
But I don't think posting in Greek is allowed on TeamBHP!

If you guys can decode some of the abbreviations, it will be very kind to airplane illiterates like me.
Here you go:
First things first: the disclaimer: I am not a pilot, i have an ardent interest in flying and am an avid simmer (Simulation). So the following information is subject to being corrected by the actual experts I try to imitate at home.

FL: Flight Level. This is altitude what remains after removing the last 2 digits. So FL510 means 51000 feet, FL400 means 40000 feet above sea level

FPM: Feet per Minute: Rate of Climb of an aircraft. 5000 FPM means the aircraft is climbing at the rate of 5000 feet per minute.

KIAS: Knots Indicated Air Speed : Basically the speed is measured in this unit. So 250 KIAS means speed of 250 Knots per hour. Indicated air speed is dependent on wind conditions. So the same KIAS may relate to different Ground speeds based on wind direction.

TO: Take Off

Pax: means passengers (pilot jargon if I may call it so).

Pitch: Is the attitude of the aircraft (whether the nose is pointing upwards or downwards) so when climbing you have a positive pitch. Here 12-14degree means the nose is pointed upward at an angle of 12degrees to horizontal.

OEW: The Operating Empty Weight (OEW) is basically the sum of the Manufacturer's empty weight (MEW), Standard Items (SI), and Operator Items

ZFW: Zero fuel weight. basically weight of the plane without fuel.

RW: i think its Relative Weight. Not sure what exactly it is.

TOW: Take of Weight (weight of aircraft at take off)

MTOW: Max Take Off weight. Max load for aircraft to successfully take off.
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Old 20th April 2016, 18:10   #25
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by globemaster View Post
RW: i think its Relative Weight. Not sure what exactly it is.
As a pilot, I must say that I am impressed by your knowledge and your desire to get as close to the real thing as possible. Please keep doing what you love.

A small correction though. RW stands for ramp weight. This is the weight of the aircraft after it has been fueled and is ready to taxi. The takeoff weight is the ramp weight minus the fuel required to taxi to the runway.

The Learjet 60 typically burns 100 kg of fuel per 10 mins of taxiing.

Ramp Weight : 9600 kg
Take off weight: 9527 kg
Fuel Burnt = 73 kgs.
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Old 20th April 2016, 18:58   #26
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

WHOA! What an amazing thread! Though I didn't understand everything but I was so excited while going through this thread! The Excitement flying @ 51000ft must be on a different level altogether. I think Flights are way too exciting and wish some day I can get close to them Thank you so much for sharing!

PS:Thanks Globemaster for making things crystal clear, you got some amazing knowledge !
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Old 20th April 2016, 23:27   #27
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

A coincidence I guess, because I was just looking up Learjet today.

Anyway, I have a question - a private jet makes sense for those who absolutely need it. How does Learjet compare with Gulfstream G150? And what parameters do you consider for a private jet?
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Old 21st April 2016, 00:59   #28
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Anyway, I have a question - a private jet makes sense for those who absolutely need it.
There are two sides to this question. I believe that for those who need it, yes it makes sense.

Sometimes I have a lot of work to do, and other times, circumstances require me to fly in a jet. If I fly commercial, I just can't get any work done. So I use the Lear and catch up with left over work so that I can spend sometime with my family. Obviously, the cost to fly private is not recovered in a direct manner but if I get four hours of work done on the flight, that's four hours of family time I recover. For me, it is worth it.

On the other hand, private jet ownership has a LOT of issues. There are costs without actually flying anywhere. The hangar for parking the jet. Continuous certifications and testing. Insurance policy. Depreciation cost. Staff wages etc. I enjoy travelling on the LR60 because I do not own it and I do not have to pay for it, the organization I work for pays for it.

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How does Learjet compare with Gulfstream G150? And what parameters do you consider for a private jet?
Buying Criteria
The most important thing to understand while buying a private jet is not to look at a budget. Never try to get the best plane for a specific budget, try to get the best one suiting your criteria. Unlike a car, a wrong jet can land you with multiple problems. Generally, the first step is to find your usage profile and then select or shortlist a couple of models. Earlier models are cheaper to buy, but will cost longer in terms of maintenance.

Your aircraft selection primarily depends on the following factors, in order of importance.

1. Range required ( I fly locally from Dulles Intl. Washington to Sky Harbor, Phoenix, AZ and Heathrow, London to Stockholm Intl, so the 60XR suffices for me.)
2. Maintenance (i.e where the aircraft is based is very important). Private jets do not fly halfway round the world for maintenance issues.
3. Seats required (Also consider headroom, very important on private jets).
4. Luggage space required.

Comparison with G150
In general, the G150 is considered to be marginally better than the LR60xr. It has more headroom, which makes a lot of difference, since you can actually stand up and walk around the cabin without bending your head. It has longer range, although we don't do transatlantic flights on either of them. The G150 has better residual value.

The G150 falls short on the service ceiling, performance and operating costs. Variable operating costs for G150 reach $2,400/hr by 3-4 years of service, while our LR60xr comes under $2100/hr. But again, this is a debatable figure which depends on an individual air-frame's maintenance etc. The big differentiator here is the service ceiling, which is 45000 ft. for the G150 and 51000 ft. for the LR60xr. This makes a whole lot of difference in crowded airspaces like Europe where FL410-FL450 is also congested. Also, a higher service ceiling allows you to avoid turbulent weather completely. This is a significant advantage over the G150. And last but not the least, the LR60XR is one crazily fast aircraft. It does have higher approach speeds though.

Maintenance wise, the G150 is okay, while the LR60Xr is considered to be a highly reliable aircraft. Most fleets are still running 20 year old LR60's. But it has a couple of problems too, particularly with the fuel atomizer in the APU and starter generators sometimes. Nothing that an AOG check can't sort out though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glossary:
APU: A small engine to power up the main engine
AOG: Aircraft on ground
Service Ceiling: The maximum height an aircraft can fly at.
FlXXX: XXX00 feet altitude above Mean Sea Level
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Old 21st April 2016, 09:15   #29
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by globemaster View Post
FL: Flight Level. This is altitude what remains after removing the last 2 digits. So FL510 means 51000 feet, FL400 means 40000 feet above sea level
Thanks, but this is not entirely correct. Unfortunately, altitude is little bit more complex in aviation.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
In aviation and aviation meteorology, a flight level (FL) is defined as a vertical profile of airspace at standard pressure, expressed as a nominal altitude in hundreds of feet. The pressure is computed assuming an International standard sea-level pressure datum of 1013.25 hPa (29.92 inHg), and therefore is not necessarily the same as the aircraft's true altitude either above mean sea level or above ground level.
Here is how it works in practice:

Pilots use various definitions of altitude and various ways of measuring altitude. Making sense and understanding the difference is an important part of a pilot's training.

On all aircraft the primary altitude instrument is essentially a barometer calibrated to show altitude. The higher you go, the lower the air pressure! Very simple, very effective.

In aviation a lot of altitudes get measured against Mean Sea Level. So for instance the altitude of an airport is typically provided as a value against Mean Sea Level. What does it mean? Lets take Delhi airport as an example.

Delhi is situated at 777 ft (237m) above mean sea level. Which means that an aircraft sitting on the tarmac at Delhi airport should show an altitude of 777ft! In order to do so the pilot needs to dial in the local barometric pressure into his/her altimeter. In order to get a meaningful reading you need to adjust it (constantly) for the local conditions. Every pilot on every aircraft does so as part of their flight prep and during the flight where applicable. The local barometric pressure is broadcast continuously on the so called ATIS frequency and ATC will provide it as well.

So everybody is constantly adjusting their altimeter setting in order to keep all the aircraft in a certain geographical location at the same datum (reference). That will ensure vertical separation when everybody sticks to their assigned altitude.

A small change in barometric pressure will give a difference of easily several hundreds of feet in reading. So you really need to set the altimeter very carefully and precisely!

Above a certain altitude know as the transition altitude everybody switches to a what is known as standard (STD) barometric setting. (1013.25 hPa). So unless the barometric pressure happens to be exactly 1013.25 hPa your altimeter will not be showing altitude above mean sea level. It will be higher or lower. It doesn't matter, because again, its all about making sure everybody is using the same datum. Thus ensuring vertical separation when everybody sticks to their assigned altitude.

In the USA where I did most of my flying the transition altitude is (nearly) always 18000 feet. In Europe it differs and its often much lower.

Have a look at this:
https://www.ivao.aero/db/ss/airport.asp?Id=EHAM

So Amsterdam, has a transition altitude of only 3000ft. Also note that it's elevation is -11ft. Amsterdam is below the sea. So planes sitting on the ground at Amsterdam Schiphol tarmac, with a correctly set altimeter will show -11ft. Compare that to Delhi, where on the ground the altimeter will show 777ft!


Summary:
Below the transition altitude pilots need to ensure their altimeters are set to the correct local barometric pressure. Altitudes are called out by their full digits. E.g. 4000 feet, 7500 feet. When passing the transition altitude pilots need to set their altimeters to STD. Altitudes are called out as FL. E.g. 190, 350 etc

Conversely, if you hear a pilot or ATC calling out an altitude as FLxyz, it also means your altimeter needs to set to STD. When you hear something like 15.000 feet, you must have the latest local barometric pressure dialled into your altimeter.


There are other altitudes, such as "above ground" and other altimeters, such as for instance radio altimeter. All have specific use and applications. Pilots need to understand the difference and what it really means in practice intimately. No room for error!

See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level

And some more information about setting altitudes
http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/A...ing_Procedures

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 21st April 2016 at 09:20.
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Old 21st April 2016, 12:23   #30
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Default Re: Bombardier Learjet 60XR - Initial Impressions

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post


There are other altitudes, such as "above ground" and other altimeters, such as for instance radio altimeter.
Hi Jeroen,
I really loved reading your posts on aviation. I do have some interest in aviation and planes, thanks to Nat Geo's ACI series.

Regarding the altimeter, do modern planes make use of GPS also for altitude?

Also, as you mentioned, pilots have access to both Radio altimeter and Barometric altimeter.
Which one is more accurate and is used/trusted more?

Some more off topic questions:
1. If we have to land a narrow body plane like 737 or 319, then at what distance from the runway do we generally have to line up the plane with the ILS?
2. How do you guys handle crosswinds during landing? Do you use the rudder or the ailerons? Or combination of both?
3. After touchdown, in order to stop the plane, pilots have access to reverse thrust, air brakes on the wings and disc brakes. Is there any order in which they are followed?

I have faced the above practical issues while playing with an Aircraft Sim on my phone.

Last edited by abhishek46 : 21st April 2016 at 12:24. Reason: spelling
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