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Old 11th June 2016, 10:21   #181
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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I remember this incident which happened during my initial 777 days. We were flying into La Guardia in very low visibility conditions. RVR was down to 200 feet. We couldn't see anything outside. Anyway, tower cleared us to land CAT IIIb and I settled in for the final approach. At about 180 feet AGL, I thought I saw a flash of white light. Dismissing it as a figment of my imagination, I continued. However, when I saw the flash of light once again, it hit me - those were the strobe lights of an aircraft - on the runway.. From the moment I noticed the first flash to the go-around decision took 6 seconds at most. I still remember that incident very clearly. I called out "Going Around", pushed the TOGA switch and then called flaps 20. Now the thing with the GE90115B is that compared to other engines, it is a bit slow to respond due it high bypass ratio. I recall thinking - "oh God, please let this thing fly, please." Fortunately, God was listening. The engines reached their TOGA power in about 4 seconds and we climbed out almost vertically. This was THE most terrifying experience I ever had while landing in low visibility conditions.
So, there isn't any system like a radar or sonar that will let you know of objects in the vicinity or the flight path?
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Old 11th June 2016, 17:33   #182
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So, there isn't any system like a radar or sonar that will let you know of objects in the vicinity or the flight path?

Nope, not near the ground anyway. Up in the air there is TCAS, radar, ADB-S etc. But when landing with little visibility you need to rely on the tower and or ground comms to keep a check on anything and everything. Some might have the use of ground radar, but even that doesn't pick up everything. So it's all down to strict procedure and communications. And as per the aviation herald link I provided earlier, runway incursions happen on a fairly regular bases.

There isn't even a proper standard how vehicle traffic is communicated with. E.g in the Netherlands there is a special radio frequency for vehicles needing to cross the ramps, taxiways, runways. The vehicle drivers talk to tower and ground but the pilots can't hear them.

In the USA everybody is on the same frequency, sort of.
Not sure how it's done in India

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Old 11th June 2016, 18:31   #183
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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So, there isn't any system like a radar or sonar that will let you know of objects in the vicinity or the flight path?
As Jeroen said, there is TCAS available to us while in the air. TCAS works by interrogating other transponders in the vicinity. The problem with TCAS is that the reply to a TCAS interrogation from another aircraft includes a 'vertical status' bit, indicating if the A/C is on the ground or in the air. If that bit is 0, then the intruder aircraft is considered to be on ground and TA/RA's are inhibited. If TA/RA wasn't inhibited, it would produce advisories unnecessarily while landing.

The incident that happened with me was an error on the part of the ATC. They have ground radars which enables them to see the various aircrafts at the airport. First off, that aircraft shouldn't have been there in the first place. Secondly, they should have noticed the proximity and asked us to abort our landing.

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There isn't even a proper standard how vehicle traffic is communicated with. E.g in the Netherlands there is a special radio frequency for vehicles needing to cross the ramps, taxiways, runways. The vehicle drivers talk to tower and ground but the pilots can't hear them.
I remember a hilarious exchange which happened between the ground and the vehicular traffic. Some maintenance guys were going for their regular checks and equipment servicing. They had to cross the runway at PAPA CHARLIE. So they asked for permission. Ground controller asked them to hold. A minute later, the same request popped up. This time, the controller was pissed and said,"MAN32, if you look towards the left, you will see a 747 about to land. If you've got the guts, you've got the permission." MAN32 then replied in a meek voice, "Holding at PAPA CHARLIE, MAN32".
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Old 13th June 2016, 12:53   #184
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

Thanks a million jeroen and searchingheaven. Few more queries on 777.
1. What is the frequency in which the hydraulic lines are checked apat from inspection on daily basis . Just to get an idea how much gallons would be required to fill all the hydraulic lines.

2. Is apu solely responsible for operating all hydraulic lines ,?

3' of the the three pairs of wheel bogies designed for all 777 series I tend to make comparison of a similar sized 340 which has only two pair of wheel bogies. What makes the 777 be ing similar sized released around same timeline. Have a extra pair ? Does the 777 have an edge here because if the extra set of wheels ??

4. Will the chief pursuers steward air hostess possess technical knowledge of the various systems. Just in case to assist the pilots ??
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Old 13th June 2016, 14:55   #185
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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1. What is the frequency in which the hydraulic lines are checked apart from inspection on daily basis . Just to get an idea how much gallons would be required to fill all the hydraulic lines.

2. Is apu solely responsible for operating all hydraulic lines ,?

3. of the the three pairs of wheel bogies designed for all 777 series I tend to make comparison of a similar sized 340 which has only two pair of wheel bogies. What makes the 777 being similar sized released around same timeline. Have a extra pair ? Does the 777 have an edge here because if the extra set of wheels ??

4. Will the chief pursuers steward air hostess possess technical knowledge of the various systems. Just in case to assist the pilots??
  1. Every A - check performed on an aircraft involves checking the hydraulic lines, apart from the regular checks. An A-check is performed approximately every 400-600 flight hours or 200–300 cycles (takeoff and landing is considered an aircraft "cycle"), depending on aircraft type. It needs about 20–60 man-hours and is usually performed overnight at an airport gate.

  2. No it isn't. In fact, once the engines are started, the APU is shutdown during flight.

  3. Let's make this quick. Every runway is given a PCN, or a pavement classification number. This number indicates the maximum pressure the runway can take in CF units. On the same lines, every aircraft has a ACN, or an aircraft classification number, which shows the amount of load the aircraft puts on the runway. Higher the ACN, higher the load.

    If the ACN>PCN, then it's obvious that the aircraft will damage the runway. Hence the lower an aircraft's ACN number, the more runways it can be accommodated on. Increasing the number of tires on the aircraft decreases the load put on the ground by distributing it, and hence reduces ACN. Hence the 777, with 2 extra tires has a lower ACN than the A340-600. And hence it can use runways with a lower PCN than the A340-600.

    In fact, when Air India(Indian at that time) ordered it's first A320, Airbus had to add 2 extra tires because India's runways had a very low PCN and couldn't take the A320's higher ACN. Nowadays, however the quality has improved and PCN's have increased in India as well.

  4. No, flight attendants do not have any information as such about the aircraft and/or it's technical systems. There is no point in them having such information. If two type rated professionals are having issues handling a situation, there isn't much a third person can do. Although flight attendants are trained to recognize anomalies and report incidents with the exact location and description to aid in troubleshooting.

Last edited by searchingheaven : 13th June 2016 at 14:56.
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Old 14th June 2016, 14:11   #186
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Nowadays, however the quality has improved and PCN's have increased in India as well.[/list]
1. Very valuable in sight in indeed SearchingHeaven, so apart from PCN i have read that pilot's every touch down is accounted for? in this case is there a reading that calculates and registers somewhere in the avionics which may be a value in terms of pressure exerted or received by the landing gear due to touch down ?

2. Is the Airworthiness certificate signed for every single journey made by an airplane during course of the day ? (Chennai - Mumbai, Mumbai - Chennai, Chennai - Bangalore, Bangalore- Delhi) If on a single day if a 320 is given the following destinations, after every touch down and prior to take off will they a airworthiness certificate, given the limited time available for the air plane to re fuel, getting the interiors cleaned ? loading of meal etc ?

3. From source to destination, typically 200 miles prior to the destination is when the pilots will start descending, is it done specifically to reduce the speed gradually and come in clean by touching down exactly where the wheels should touch in runway apart from agreeing to the fact to take time to run all landing procedures checklist ? In that case, during an aborted landing can the pilot still be as accurate during touch down when it comes to exact landing touch point in runway to avoid overshooting the designated stopping distance to enter the gates, what precaution should a pilot take when approaching the runway after a aborted landing ?

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Originally Posted by searchingheaven View Post
I remember this incident which happened during my initial 777 days...it hit me - those were the strobe lights of an aircraft - on the runway.
If possible could you explain this in more detail, this will be a eyeopener to folks here ? Was he on the taxiway waiting ? or was he on the same runway in the other direction ready to roll in the same direction ?

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th June 2016 at 15:22. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 14th June 2016, 15:31   #187
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
1. Very valuable in sight in indeed SearchingHeaven, so apart from PCN i have read that pilot's every touch down is accounted for? in this case is there a reading that calculates and registers somewhere in the avionics which may be a value in terms of pressure exerted or received by the landing gear due to touch down ?

2. Is the Airworthiness certificate signed for every single journey made by an airplane during course of the day ? (Chennai - Mumbai, Mumbai - Chennai, Chennai - Bangalore, Bangalore- Delhi) If on a single day if a 320 is given the following destinations, after every touch down and prior to take off will they a airworthiness certificate, given the limited time available for the air plane to re fuel, getting the interiors cleaned ? loading of meal etc ?

3. From source to destination, typically 200 miles prior to the destination is when the pilots will start descending, is it done specifically to reduce the speed gradually and come in clean by touching down exactly where the wheels should touch in runway apart from agreeing to the fact to take time to run all landing procedures checklist ? In that case, during an aborted landing can the pilot still be as accurate during touch down when it comes to exact landing touch point in runway to avoid overshooting the designated stopping distance to enter the gates, what precaution should a pilot take when approaching the runway after a aborted landing ?
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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
If possible could you explain this in more detail, this will be a eyeopener to folks here ? Was he on the taxiway waiting ? or was he on the same runway in the other direction ready to roll in the same direction ?
1. The 777 has been designed for a 10-ft/s sink rate at or below the maximum design landing weight and a 6-ft/s sink rate at more than the maximum design landing weight. An inspection is done if these values are exceeded. But because the sink rate is not directly measured, we rely on our own judgment or peak vertical CG acceleration from the flight data recorder (FDR).

Most pilots report a hard landing when the sink rate exceeds approximately 4 ft/s. If a pilot says that the landing was hard, then an inspection is done regardless of the recorded acceleration. However, using vertical acceleration values as the only condition for unscheduled inspections is not advisable. This is because the accelerometer is limited in its capability to capture actual loads that may be occurring in the entire structure during landing. Also, the process usually requires a FDR download, which means losing a lot of time during turnaround. The simple rule is "If you feel like you pounded the plane to pieces, you get it checked out." God knows I've smacked every plane I've flown at least once. Nothing has fallen off yet.

2. No, that is not done. An airworthiness certificate is an FAA document which grants authorization to operate an aircraft in flight. It is issued once when the aircraft is registered.

3. The point where we start the descent is known as T/D or top of descent. T/D is calculated by the aircraft's computer and is the most economical descent calculation. It is shown as a hollow circle on your flight path. 2 minutes before the top of descent, a warning comes up : RESET MCP ALTITUDE. This means that you have to lower the altitude dialled in the MCP to allow the aircraft to descend. When the aircraft reaches the T/D point, the A/T shows IDLE. The throttles are then moved manually to minimum, which causes the aircraft to start descending.

T/D is the ECON DES calculation and is used generally, unless the ATC has asked us to hold. T/D is usually around 100 nm. As a rule of thumb, 3 nm for every 1000 feet. So a descent from 35000 feet will give you 105 nm T/D distance.

4. No he was crossing the runway, to go over to the gate on the other side.
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Old 14th June 2016, 16:09   #188
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

Pilots, this may well be the silliest question on the thread, but...

Do you guys ever get lost on the ground? Or even take a wrong turning? Some of the big multi-terminal airports must be very, very complex to negotiate. Do you get turn-by-turn directions or do you have to find your own way from runway to gate?
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Old 14th June 2016, 16:24   #189
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Pilots, this may well be the silliest question on the thread, but...

Do you guys ever get lost on the ground? Or even take a wrong turning? Some of the big multi-terminal airports must be very, very complex to negotiate. Do you get turn-by-turn directions or do you have to find your own way from runway to gate?

Not a silly question at all. Yes, pilots do get lost, take a wrong turn etc. It can get very busy and hectic. Go to youtube and search for Kennedy Steve and you can listen in to some amazing communication between ground (Steve) and the planes.

And yes, you can get turn by turn directions in theory, but if it gets very busy on big commercial airports I doubt controllers have the time. They might do it if some poor GA pilot like me finds him/herself in the midst of all this mayhem.

Nowadays its a little easier as most glass cockpit planes have the possibility to display the airport layout, taxi- and runway etc on the navigation display, so you can actually tell where you are by looking on your ND. Also, most iPads with airport charts can do this for you, providing you have GPS coverage.

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Old 14th June 2016, 18:20   #190
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Default Re: Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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Also, most iPads with airport charts can do this for you, providing you have GPS coverage.
Is it a dedicated App provided to the pilots for assistance by the airline for all their destinations routes ? Even otherwise while doing a self maneuver without ground controller's help will pilots not get into the trouble of entering wrong exits, ramps where potentially another air craft maybe planning to come up as they go by perception and chart available but no one to warn them that there is yet another guy waiting to the cross the same path in a short while ?
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Old 14th June 2016, 19:09   #191
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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Is it a dedicated App provided to the pilots for assistance by the airline for all their destinations routes ? Even otherwise while doing a self maneuver without ground controller's help will pilots not get into the trouble of entering wrong exits, ramps where potentially another air craft maybe planning to come up as they go by perception and chart available but no one to warn them that there is yet another guy waiting to the cross the same path in a short while ?
When you are on the ground you will always receive instructions from the tower or ground where to go. So they will give you a set of very specific instructions, which ramp, which taxiway, which exit etc. And you need to repeat those.

Listen to this



Only on smaller fields with no tower, you plan your route across the various taxiways and ramps yourself. Even then, you are supposed to announce your attention on the radio, so other aircraft can hear and anticipate.

So the iPad is not a route planning such as say a TomTom or a Garmini. But it does contain all up to date aviation charts and airport charts.

Have a look:
http://ww1.jeppesen.com/main/corpora...-pro/index.jsp

Simply put it is a moving map display, so you can see the position of your own aircraft on the airport or in the air plotted.

Most glass cockpit planes have these sort of Jeppesen chart built into system as well. So you can look at them on one of the cockpit displays as well.


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Old 15th June 2016, 21:13   #192
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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Is it a dedicated App provided to the pilots for assistance by the airline for all their destinations routes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
So the iPad is not a route planning such as say a TomTom or a Garmini. But it does contain all up to date aviation charts and
airport charts.
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Do you guys ever get lost on the ground? Or even take a wrong turning? Some of the big multi-terminal airports must be very, very complex to negotiate. Do you get turn-by-turn directions or do you have to find your own way from runway to gate?
A lot of questions, and a lot of answers. Let me also add my two cents.

First off, ANY movement at the airport has to be authorized by the ground controller and the instruction repeated back. There is no way an aircraft is going to move without permission. Last time that happened, 500 people died.

Yes, navigation at the airport is a tricky part. But the advent of technology has made our lives easier and safer. In most modern jetliners, an EFB or Electronic Flight Bag is provided. The EFB is placed on the left and right on both the pilot and co-pilot's side. The 787 has an integrated EFB, which can be shown on the main displays. To be frank however, I never liked the big & interchangeable LCD screens on the 787. I prefer the layout of the 777, with the EFB on my right and the more important displays in front.

Instead of EFB's, or in addition to it, iPads or android tabs are also used as EFB's. These tabs use either proprietary software or 3rd party apps, depending on the carrier. They contain different types of charts, all of which may not be necessary for a particular flight. So we create binders(like folders on Windows) containing the charts we would probably need on our way. These charts include the airport diagram and IFR sectionals, as well as approach plates of various SID's and STARS. Most iPad and Android EFB's are also able to plan flights and follow the route, using the external GPS modules.

I don't have photos of the 777 EFB now, but I will get them when I fly next. For now, I will post some screenshots and videos of the EFB I use on an Android device. Garmin Pilot is the software used. Subscription costs around $250 per year. It is very close in terms of functioning to the actual EFB.

This is how the airport diagram looks on the EFB, with the aircraft standing at the gate.
Name:  Standing at gate.jpeg
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Notice the marked taxiways.
Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review-100023.jpg

This is the route of our flight from KJFK to KDCA.
Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review-route.jpeg

Your aircraft can also be viewed on a chart, as shown in the image below.
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These are all the different screens available in the app. They are self-explanatory.
Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review-diff-screens.jpg

This is the terrain map and obstacle avoidance feature of the Garmin Pilot. Again self explanatory.
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Link to Taxi Video

PS: Not hosted on Youtube because of account requirement. If anybody else can download those videos and upload on YT from his own account and post the links here, it would be great.

Screenshots taken randomly over time. Not of a specific flight.

Last edited by searchingheaven : 15th June 2016 at 21:19.
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Old 15th June 2016, 21:28   #193
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First off, movement at the airport has to be authorized by the ground controller and the instruction repeated back. There is no way an aircraft is going to move without permission. Last time that happened, 500 people died.
As I said earlier at uncontrolled airports you do move your plane by yourself without Tower or Ground present. Not sure about India, but there are plenty of airports in the USA and Canada that have fairly large airports with regular commercial traffic.

There have always been uncontrolled airports, but that number grew big time in 2013 by the FAA announcement to shut down the towers of some 149 additional towers around the country. All to save some bucks!

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_relea...m?newsId=14414

I flew to Santa fe in 2014 with AA which at the time had become unmanned I believe.

Look at the list:

http://www.faa.gov/news/media/fct_closed.pdf

Even today some of this have regular daily commercial traffic. Albeit usually no wide bodies! More like 737, small airbusses and regional liners.

I know all the fields in KS and MO and some of those are pretty big and busy airports with commercial (business) traffic, including helicopters!

thanks for the pictures of your EFB. Wondering what maps/charts it is using. It doesn’t look like Jeppesen? Is it some other or even own proprieatery material. I never understood that but I know there are/used to be carrier that made their own maps and charts (always based on somebodies else base format and data obviously)

Jeroen

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Old 15th June 2016, 21:39   #194
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As I said earlier at uncontrolled airports you do move your plane by yourself without Tower or Ground present.
Sorry for confusing you with my wrong choice of words. What I meant was that at controlled airports, you cannot and do not move without permission from the tower.

Of course, at uncontrolled airports you will have to do so.
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Old 15th June 2016, 23:25   #195
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Sorry for confusing you with my wrong choice of words. What I meant was that at controlled airports, you cannot and do not move without permission from the tower.

Of course, at uncontrolled airports you will have to do so.

I guess there would be very few wide bodies flying into uncontrolled airports. Although it could happen.

An acquaintance of mine flew his single engine Cirrus VFR into Los Angeles some months ago. At night too. Apparently they did not bat a lid, but once he was on the ground they told him it had been a while since they had anybody coming in VFR!

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