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Old 25th September 2016, 20:36   #1
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Default Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator

Those of you that are following some of the aviation related threads on the forum, might have picked up I am very much an aviation enthusiast. I obtained my Private Pilot License whilst living in the USA some years ago too. To me one of the most fascinating planes ever build was/is the Concorde. I have had the pleasure of flying it only once. That was a 20 minute promotion flight in the mid eighties. So we never went supersonic, but it was still a fascinating experience. All Concordes have been retired some time ago. You can still see them in many places around the world as all airframes found their ways to various museums.

One of the musueums with a Concorde is the Brookland Museum in Weybridge, UK, just South west of London.

See http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com

They also have the only remaining British Airways Concorde Simulator and they offer Special Concorde Experience Packages that include flying the Concorde Simulator. I did just that last weekend.

http://www.brooklandsconcorde.co.uk

Look at this for the various Concorde packages;

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-brookland-programs_.jpg

We moved from Delhi back to my home country the Netherlands a few months ago. But I had planned this trip to the UK whilst still living in Delhi. It was supposed to be a three day trip. One full day at Brooklands, one full day at the Southampton Boatshow (another interest/hobby of mine) and one day easy touring along the South coast. I had it all planned out carefully, all passages and tickets booked on line.

The original plan was to leave our home near The Hague on a Thursday afternoon and drive to the DFDS Ferry terminal just south of Dunkirk. Just a little over 300km. I had planned this ferry crossing specifically, because I wanted to sail the English Channel late afternoon, seeing the sun set. This is a two hours crossing. You could drive further south and take one of the ferries from Calais, That is a shorter crossing, about one hour, but from the Netherlands it will take another half hour of driving to get there. Also, Calais has been in the news a lot due to all the problems with refugees. My heart goes out to those poor people, but Iíll be very honest, I did not want to be inconvenienced either.

After the Thursday evening crossing, I had planned to drive Thursday evening towards Southampton, booked a nice B&B about an hour north of Southampton.

I havenít been to the Southampton boat show for more then 10 years or so. Mainly because of not living in Europe. So I was really looking forward to it. However, due to some business requirements I had to be in the Netherlands on Friday and on Sunday afternoon I had to fly to Stockholm on business as well. So my whole relaxing three days trip had to be compressed substantially. Dropped the Southampton boat show and the south coast cruising. Only did the Brookline museum and Concorde.

It meant I set off from home on Friday afternoon around 1600. Made the 20.00 hour Ferry. Two hour crossing and an hour time difference meant I had the UK roads by 21.00 local time. Friday evening is always busy and it took me about two hours to drive to Weybridge and check into my hotel near the museum.

Iím lucky to have a choice of cars. But for a trip like this, driving close to 1000 km in just over 24 hours, nothing beats my 2002 Jaguar XJR for speed, comfort and endurance.

The next morning it took me less then 10 minutes to drive down to the museum. I was in for a treat because this particular weekend also a model club exhibition was on at the museum. More about this below.

Here is the formal confirmation I received from the Brookland museum about a week prior.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-brookland-itinary.jpg

So I walked up to the Clubhouse and was shown to the main reception area. There were some 12 other people there as well. And two retired BA Concorde Training Captains that would be helping us fly the Concorde.
But first, we got a little talk about Brooklands. It is very much where both motoring and aviation started in the UK. All the buildings are original. You will see a picture of Campbell workshop. That was his actual workshop where he worked on his world record cars. Brookland started out as a private circuit. Parts of the circuit, notably some of the bank curves can still be seen today. Quite amazing they had F1 races on this circuit!

Some 19.000 planes took to the air on their maiden flight from Brookland. About 30% of every Concorde air frame was made here in Brookland. So there is a significant motoring and aviation heritage. All of which took place last century. I love these sort of English museums. They are run by an army of volunteers. Very dedicated, very knowledgeable. Very relaxed, but everything is organised to the last minute detail.

After an introductory talk about Brooklands and itís history, both captains introduced themselves and told us a bit about their careers. Both started their flying career with the Royal Air Force..Both had been pilot instructors at the RAF as well. They both ended up flying with BA, commanding 707ís from which they transitioned to Concorde on which both of them also became training captain.

Brookland has a rich Concorde history. A lot of the design work was done here. Most of the cable looms were manufactured here as well as other parts. In all, every Concorde, both the French and the British had about 30% of its parts made here in Brooklands!

The Brookland Concorde is a bit special as well. It was the first full production Concorde, after the earlier two prototypes. This particular one never flew commercially. It was mainly used for airworthiness certification. Concorde required more than 5.000 hours of flight for its certification. Modern commercial air liners require maybe 1500. Also, this happens to be the fastest Concorde. During its testing and certification program they got it up to Mach 2.2 . No other Concorde travelled that fast ever.

After the various talks it was time to visit the Concorde.

I think that no matter from what angle you look at this plane, it looks great!

The famous nose, note this is up position with the so-called visor in front of the cockpit window. This is how they would fly supersonic

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172236.jpg

Underneath the huge delta wings:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172229.jpg

Compared to other planes, Concorde landing gear is very tall. A direct result from its Delta wings. Delta wings have a much higher angle of attack when taking off and landing, thus requiring taller landing gear in order for the tail not to scrape the runway!

Another interesting detail, the RAT or Ram Air Turbine. If all the engine failed this little gadget would drop from its cubby hole. The propellor would spin a generator and hydraulic pump. Many planes even today have similar arrangements.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172230.jpg


Here an interesting look across the top of the right wing. Note the two engines and the position of the so called reverser buckets. On the outside engine the bucket is in itís normal flight position. On the inside engine you can see the bucket in its reverser position where it blows air forward to assist braking.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172232.jpg

This particular plane has been refurbished inside and is essentially a little museum. Showing anything from the various cabin lay outs, instruments, charts etc. At one point they sit you down towards the front of the plane where there are still about 10 rows of seats left. They put on a video on a big screen showing the complete flight from the flight deck. So itís a bit of simulated flight, with sounds and lights etc. Pretty well done.

And you get to take your picture at Mach 2.0! And at FL500!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-jeroen-cabin.jpg

After that you get paired up with somebody and you get a cockpit visit of some twenty minutes. One of the Concorde Captain is in the cockpit to explain any and all questions. First time ever for me sitting in the Concorde Cockpit. Lots of questions so those twenty minutes were over before they began.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-jeroen-cockpit.jpg

Even today there is nothing that can match Concorde. To think this plane was designed in the 50-60ís is just absolutely staggering. That was an era where only a few military jets could reach Mach 2 and only for minutes. Concorde design brief was very simple: Built a plane that can carry hundred plus passengers in comfort at Mach 2 across the ocean! And they did! I had a long chat with the Concorde Captain about the engine and how they operate at high speed. Concorde uses so called re-heat or afterburners on take off, just like military jets. It also uses reheat to accelerate pass Mach 1. I was very surprised to hear that once they pass Mach 1.7 the re-heat comes off. Initially that sounded very counter intuitive. All to do with engine efficiency, drag factors, high altitudes. But it is one the reason that allow Concorde to cruise for hours at an end at Mach 2 with a relative low fuel usage.

After the cockpit visit I had about an hour and half to kill before my simulator ride was to take place. Lots of stuff to see and do. So here is a short impression in random order.

Lots of very nicely restored, all British, motor bikes. (Did not see a single Royal Enfield).

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171664.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171667.jpg

Nice collection!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171670.jpg

Some high speed Classic Cars

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171671.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171673.jpg

A few more Classic Racers. All these cars are fully restored, but look as if ready to roll!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171679.jpg

Beautiful classic car and bike

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171680.jpg

Another classic

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171681.jpg

Love these sort of details. Can you imagine sitting behind such a huge steering wheel? No seat belts, no air bags!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172242.jpg

As I said earlier, all buildings are original and very nicely restored. Some of the pictures of these classic speed cars were taken in this shed. This is the original shed of Malcolm Campbell. He worked on his world record cars in this very shed!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172241.jpg

There are quite a few ďperiodĒ cars about as well. Look at these, does anybody remember DanAir? I do, I used to fly with them from Amsterdam to Norwich and Aberdeen during my offshore years, many moons ago!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171684.jpg

Some more impressions of these classic cars amongst these very nicely restored buildings:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172240.jpg

Love these huge tow trucks. They are just so impressive!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172254.jpg

And there are a number of planes. Just a quick impression:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172234.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172235.jpg

This cockpit section doesnít look like much. But it is in fact another iconic aircraft.
The BAC TSR-2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2

Iím a huge fan of this particular aircraft. Very little of it is left. Most aircraft were destroyed. In fact there is a bit of a conspiracy theory around the disapperance of this, at the time, hugely advanced, plane. Even so, nice to see a few bits have survived.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172273.jpg

Some major restoration undertaken all on site:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172238.jpg


I had planned my way back home by means of the Euro Tunnel for no other reason than it is very fast and efficient. I was not expecting any problems on this side of the channel. Left Brooklands by about 15.30. Made very good time and found myself entering the Eurotunnel terminal at Folkestone by about 17.00. My crossing wasnít until 18.30, but I was allowed an earlier train at no extra cost. Over the years I have found that as long as it is not busy, staff will put you on whatever train is available at no extra cost. If it is busy, high season, you pay an arm and a leg just to leave 30 minutes extra. So no extra cost, but there was an hour delay regardless. Had I known, I might have quickly taken a ferry.

So here we are entering the train coaches:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-into-chunnel-carriage.jpg

This is how it looks inside:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-chunnel-inside.jpg

And this is how it looks with cars and specifically my Jaguar. A carriage takes four cars and doors at the front and the rear close automatically. The journey itself takes 30 minutes. Customs and immigration is done in the UK, so once you drive of the train in France you hit the motorway within minutes of leaving the train!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-jaguar-chunnel.jpg

At the very end of your Concorde flight you will be presented with this fine Certificate. Nice memorandum of a very nice day. I can honestly say this Brookland museum is a true little gem. Itís not that big, but there is lots to see and do, even if you choose not to fly Concorde you can easily spend a full day here

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-brookland-certificate.jpeg
Attached Thumbnails
Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-brookland-itinary.jpeg  


Last edited by Jeroen : 25th September 2016 at 22:06.
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Old 25th September 2016, 22:26   #2
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Apology, somehow my story line got a little mixed up. So the last post showed the trip back home, whereas I hadnít even finished with my Brooklands museum visit. But Iím sure you will manage.

So after stomping around the museum grounds for 90 minutes or so it was time for my Concorde Simulator ride. They had put us in groups of four. The idea being you spend an hour in the simulator and everybody gets 15 minutes of flying time. In the end we spend about an hour and a half. Our captain was very enthusiastic and did not want to hurry. In our group of four, we had three pilots, which was exceptional and the fourth guy was also extremely knowledgable. You donít need to know anything about flying to take this simulator ride. But of course, if you do and you find yourself in the company of like minded folks itís even more fun!

The museum managed to get hold of the original British Airways Concorde Simulator. This is how it looks from the outside:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171685.jpg

Originally it was a full motion simulator. So it used to sit on top of a hydraulically operated platform that simulated the motion of the aircraft. They did away with the full motion bit, so it is a static simulator now.

But it does look the part!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171686.jpg

They offer four different flights.

1) Take off from Heathrow, along the coast, across London and back to Heathrow
if so desired, you can dive underneath tower bridge
2) Take off from the old Kai Tak Hong Kong airport, fly the circuit and land using
the famous check board approach
3) Take off from JFK, fly along the Hudson, buzz a bridge or two and land at JFK
4) Take off from Sydney, fly over Sydney harbour, dive under the bridge and land
again.

Each flight takes approx 15 minutes. Depending on your experience, the captain will assist you with power settings, gear, radio etc.

I opted for the Heathrow Circuit. I wanted to do something in airspace Iím reasonably familiar with. Flew manually all the way with the auto throttle. Perfect landing! Very happy, very impressed with this Simulator.

The simulator uses Microsoft Flight Simulator for the scenery, which is really nice. Not sure what computer or computer program drives the actual flight model. Nobody had a good answer on that. Itís not the original equipment that is for sure.

But sitting in this original cockpit with all the switches, dials, knobs etc fully working is very impressive! Look at these close ups of the flight engineer panel:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171687.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171688.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171689.jpg

One of my new friends in action:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9171691.jpg

To give a better impression of a flight on this simulator have a look at this youtube video:



I can only say the whole experience was very very nice. I had a great time.

A little more time to kill before I had to head home.

One of itís renowned features of the Brooklands circuit were itís banked curves. You can still see some of it:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172257.jpg

I have driven on a banked circuit once in my Alfa Romeo Spider. Itís a bit weird at first. You actually donít or hardly steer, but you move your eyes upwards as you enter the bank. And keep an eye on your tire temperature! Just a few rounds will see the tire temperature soar!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172262.jpg

The museum has all sorts of events during the year. This particular weekend saw a special steam engine club event. Lots of little stalls where you could buy tools, big and small. Look at this. Anybody for a nice lathe?

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172246.jpg

Once you get your lathe, you will need lots of bits and pieces to go with it. Presto another stall>

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172247.jpg

When you are really good with your lath and all your other bits and pieces you might be able to cobble something together like this:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172251.jpg

Also, on site is the London Bus museum. Honestly, I just ran through it, because it was getting late, but it has a very nice collection of just about every London bus ever to ply the London roads. Love the Route Master. Bought myself two very nice model Route Masters!

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172274.jpg

A few more photographs of some of the planes. A very nice Hawker Hunter, for many the most beautiful jet fighter ever.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172272.jpg

Some other planes:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172276.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172277.jpg

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172279.jpg

Note the banked curves behind the planes:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172282.jpg


And some very nice Vicker Viscounts. Pretty rare. KLM used these, and I remember seeing them at what was then the old original Schiphol Airport, a few miles from where we lived.

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172285.jpg


Another Viscount, note the banked curve behind it

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172286.jpg

This is what a VV cockpit looks like:

Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-p9172288.jpg

I hope you enjoyed this little story. It was certainly a very enjoyable experience for me. I love driving my cars on these long high speed journeys. Spending a day in a museum like this is just wonderful. Flying the Concorde was just a hugely interesting and entertaining experience.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 25th September 2016 at 22:50.
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Old 26th September 2016, 07:25   #3
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Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Commercial Vehicles Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 26th September 2016, 11:23   #4
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Wow, what a thread Jeroen! Must have been quite a delightful experience.

Thank you so much for sharing with all of us, felt like I was there with you experiencing all this. You are slowly igniting this aviation bug into a lot of us, you know!
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Old 26th September 2016, 21:01   #5
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Lucky you !! Please write about your actual flying experience in 1980s.

There is one AirFrance concorde on display at Sinsheim Technical museum.. Adding few photos of that one here.
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Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-dsc01129.jpg  


Last edited by arjithin : 26th September 2016 at 21:02.
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Old 28th September 2016, 14:20   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjithin View Post
Lucky you !! Please write about your actual flying experience in 1980s.

There is one AirFrance concorde on display at Sinsheim Technical museum.. Adding few photos of that one here.

I think you were uploading pictures of the Corcorde but probably uploaded this pic of the Russian Tupolev Tu-144 by accident.

The Tu-144 was the World's first commercial supersonic aircraft and entered service before the Corcorde.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

Most of information we have available online is from Western Sources and in English and they tend to conveniently hide Russian achievements and portray themselves in better light.
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Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator-dsc01001.jpg  


Last edited by Foxbat : 28th September 2016 at 14:22.
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Old 28th September 2016, 15:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
I think you were uploading pictures of the Corcorde but probably uploaded this pic of the Russian Tupolev Tu-144 by accident.
.
You are correct. I probably selected a wrong file while uploading.

Here is the link talking about the Tupolev exhibit.
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Old 28th September 2016, 17:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
I think you were uploading pictures of the Corcorde but probably uploaded this pic of the Russian Tupolev Tu-144 by accident.

The Tu-144 was the World's first commercial supersonic aircraft and entered service before the Corcorde.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

Most of information we have available online is from Western Sources and in English and they tend to conveniently hide Russian achievements and portray themselves in better light.

I'm not sure it entered commercial service before Concorde. It's maiden flight was a few months before Concorde. But not to put to fine a point to it, it wasn't a particular success. This plane was plagued with endless problems and the Wiki page highlights a few. Concorde design authority was requested to step in to help with some of the technological challenges the Russians could not solve.

Tu did fly at +Mach 2, just like Concorde. However, due to its poor and inefficient design it could only sustain Mach 2 speed with permanent reheat or afterburner on. Severely limiting its supersonic range compared to the supersonic range of Concorde. It's little canard wings are another give away that Russian aerofoil design was well behind the French/British design.

The Tu - 144 Is a remarkable achievement m, there is no doubt about that. However, it can only be compared to Concorde and then it doesn't do particular well. Whether it's technology, reliability, safety or passenger comfort. Commercially it was a disaster to boot.

Jeroen
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Old 30th September 2016, 13:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjithin View Post
Lucky you !! Please write about your actual flying experience in 1980s.

There is one AirFrance concorde on display at Sinsheim Technical museum.. Adding few photos of that one here.
The Sinsheim museum is great!Nearby also the Speyer museum. Very similar, lots of cars, trains, boats, planes. They have a 747 at display.


http://speyer.technik-museum.de/en/

The actual flying experience on the concorde in the eighties is a bit of a distant memory Iím afraid. We were living in Brighton UK at the time. I worked in the offshore so flew in and out of Gatwick airport all the time. One day, I think it was on a BA flight I picked up an add about this Concorde Promo flight.

It was a combination of being flown from Heathrow to Gatwick by a BA Sikorsky helicopter and then join Concorde for a short flight. Or maybe it was the other way around, canít remember. The helicopter flight wasnít very special for me as I flew on choppers all the time to and from oil rigs. But still it was a nice arrangements.

They made you board Concorde via their special dedicated lounge and special busses. Although Concorde is a beautiful looking aircraft it is actually not very big. On the outside or the inside for that matter. Think DC9 size. The cabin is fairly small, but you get to sit in huge luxurious seats of course. No coach/business/first in Concorde. There is only one cabin. The windows are small if not to say tiny compared to regular airliner. So its not that easy to look out.

Take off is spectacular due to the acceleration and steep angle of attach as she pulls of the runway. It was a very short flight, less then 20 minute, but a very nice experience.

Jeroen
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Old 2nd October 2016, 10:52   #10
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Here another very cool and state of the art way of seeing some iconic planes including the Concorde. Amazing photography!

http://museumofflight.org/vr
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Old 3rd October 2016, 00:21   #11
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Mr.Jeroen ,

What do you think is a more impressive feat of engineering ? The Concorde or the SR-71 ? Both are meant for different purposes but you did state there is no compare with respect to the Concorde and I wanted to know in which sense.

I have personally seen an SR-71 up close in Shreveport, Louisiana, USA where they stationed one for display and I thought it highly of it too. It was difficult for me to fathom that something you can sit on will outpace a bullet at 44000 feet/etc.

I have to see the Concorde in person someday but I was totally captivated by the SR-71. I mean it looked like it was from another planet. Seeing the SR-71 was just as good as seeing a walking breathing dinosaur for me. I wonder whether the Concorde will evoke similar feelings.

Also please try to be unbiased, I know European nationals like you have underlying nationalistic or regionalistic sentiments with respect to superiority of your creations over those made by your Nascar watching cousins across the pond. The SR-71 is as American as it gets I guess !

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Old 4th October 2016, 08:15   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
What do you think is a more impressive feat of engineering ? The Concorde or the SR-71 ? Both are meant for different purposes but you did state there is no compare with respect to the Concorde and I wanted to know in which sense.
Interesting question! The SR-71 is absolutely ground breaking when it comes to technology. Itís faster and flies higher then Concorde.

Without a doubt a hugely impressive airplane



This one is on display in the UK at my favourite aviation museum Duxford, near Cambridge. I wrote about an earlier visit here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...uxford-uk.html (Imperial War Museum Duxford, UK)

Itís difficult to compare these two planes as they served two very different purposes. But they were both designed in roughly the same era, so they both faced similar challenges in terms of some of the fundamentals of supersonic flight. Whereas the SR71 flew faster and higher, what set the Concorde apart was the fact that it carried 100+ passengers in comfort, at supersonic speed.

Also, the Concorde was in all other aspects a regular (commercial) airliner. What I mean is that in terms of maintenance, fuel, aircraft ground handling etc. it used all the normal airport facilities. From that point of view it was fully integrated into the normal operations of British Airways and AirFrance. A Concorde flight was just another flight on their daily roster, just like a 707 flight.

SR-71 needed a lot more special attention, special maintenance, fuel, lub oil, tyres, maintenance staff, ground facilities etc. etc. Partly because of the fact that it did Mach 3. (i.e. thatís why it needed special fuel).

Whether true or not, but there is this nice story floating around the net about a SR71-Concorde encounter. It goes something like this:

Quote:
There's this SR-71 Blackbird stooging around Cuba on a top-secret mission, at FL500+ and Mach 2+.... when they get a call requesting them to change heading "because of traffic at your altitude".
Traffic at THEIR altitude ??
Anyway, they comply, and shortly, yes, there's an Air France Concorde out of Caracas (Air France flew there in the early days) slowly sailing across their flight path.

Just imagine... two guys in bonedomes and full pressure suits, in a cramped cockpit, watching something like a hundred people in shirt sleeves or summer dresses, sipping their champagne and maybe just starting on their smoked salmon hors d'oeuvres, flying at their altitude and nearly their speed...."
I have had a long talk with one of the former SR-71 pilots at Duxford. Also, I have more books on the SR71 then I have on Concorde. Does that make the SR71 more impressive? I donít know, I think both these planes have deserved their respective place in aviation history.

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I have personally seen an SR-71 up close in Shreveport, Louisiana, USA where they stationed one for display and I thought it highly of it too. It was difficult for me to fathom that something you can sit on will outpace a bullet at 44000 feet/etc.

I have to see the Concorde in person someday but I was totally captivated by the SR-71. I mean it looked like it was from another planet. Seeing the SR-71 was just as good as seeing a walking breathing dinosaur for me. I wonder whether the Concorde will evoke similar feelings.
I know what you mean when you say, looks like something from another planet. It does, I also think it looks a bit menacing. None of that when it comes to Concorde. Most people would describe Concorde as gorgeous, beautiful looking or words to that effect.


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Also please try to be unbiased, I know European nationals like you have underlying nationalistic or regionalistic sentiments with respect to superiority of your creations over those made by your Nascar watching cousins across the pond. The SR-71 is as American as it gets I guess !
By making such sweeping statements I hope you do realise it is actually you who seems to have a bias! To be true, to think that people are unbiased, is just not realistic, everybody has certain bias, itís just human nature.

I do object to any nationalistic sentiments as I just donít see the point. So I was born in the Netherlands. That in itself is not an achievement. If anything it is just luck, because the Netherlands is a very pleasant and convenient country to grow up in and a Dutch passport gets you into (nearly) every country in the world. But I donít know the Dutch anthem, or do I ever watch the Dutch national football team or do I feel proud about Max Verstappen.

On Dutch aviation achievements, there is of course Fokker. The famous German Red Baron flew a Fokker tri-plane in the first world war. Yes, so Anthony Fokker collaborated with the enemy/Germans at the time. Still his planes were great! And technically the Netherlands were neutral during world war 1. Also, Prince Bernard, the then husband of Queen Juliana, was caught taking bribes from Lockheed, to influence the Dutch government in selecting the F104 Straighter for our Airforce.

Fokker went belly up many years ago!
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Old 4th October 2016, 12:18   #13
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Ah the SR-71. Apologies for being off topic, but this anecdote is brilliant to read.

https://m.reddit.com/r/SR71/comments...d_check_story/
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Old 4th October 2016, 21:43   #14
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Ah the SR-71. Apologies for being off topic, but this anecdote is brilliant to read.

https://m.reddit.com/r/SR71/comments...d_check_story/

Excellent story! Way to go
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Old 5th October 2016, 00:10   #15
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I do object to any nationalistic sentiments as I just donít see the point. So I was born in the Netherlands. That in itself is not an achievement. If anything it is just luck, because the Netherlands is a very pleasant and convenient country to grow up in and a Dutch passport gets you into (nearly) every country in the world. But I donít know the Dutch anthem, or do I ever watch the Dutch national football team or do I feel proud about Max Verstappen.
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I do object to any nationalistic sentiments as I just donít see the point. So I was born in the Netherlands. That in itself is not an achievement. If anything it is just luck, because the Netherlands is a very pleasant and convenient country to grow up in and a Dutch passport gets you into (nearly) every country in the world. But I donít know the Dutch anthem, or do I ever watch the Dutch national football team or do I feel proud about Max Verstappen.
The reason I made such a sweeping statement is because from my Romanian friend I picked it up that Europeans generally consider American things to be crass and crude. But clearly you don't harbor any such notions ! I guess not all Europeans are alike.


By the way, how's the situation back home ? Do you happen to see refugees running along highways, trying to climb onto trucks ?

I'm not European, but I do empathize with the situation there. I'm going to be politically incorrect and will go as far as to say many of these refugees are questionable.

Do you think the Netherlands will become a France too ( North African satellite) ?
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