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Old 16th December 2016, 20:00   #1
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Default Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

A newly constructed Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS) has been inaugurated in the city of Amritsar. Tata Motors has delivered four new AC Buses for the first phase of the BRTS corridor, which spans over a 31 km stretch. This is the first batch of vehicles delivered, as part of a total order of 93 buses. Tata Motors buses also operate in BRTS corridors of Ahmedabad and Raipur.

Powered by new-generation Tata Cummins ISBe engines, these new buses are equipped with Automatic Transmissions to minimize driver fatigue in city traffic. They are fully air conditioned and are equipped with an air suspension system to ensure passenger comfort. The bus has dedicated BRTS doors that help in safe and easy ingress and egress. Each bus has a capacity to handle 80-100 passengers at a given time.

The Tata buses also get an On-Bus ITS (Intelligent Transport System), which includes public information system, automatic vehicle location system, security network system, vehicle health monitoring and diagnostics. Each bus is linked with the control room for live monitoring through GPRS-enabled connectivity.

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Old 16th December 2016, 22:19   #2
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

I fear, if it is anything like the Marco Polo launched in Bangalore.

A few links -
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...roductive.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/46766324.cms

On a positive note, I hope the newer gen buses, and an efficient BRTS system might aid the new buses. The older ones were possibly driven differently to the purpose they were originally built for.
A reliable Automatic transmission for Bangalore kind of start stop traffic is probably the trickiest piece of engineering Volvo have built (Not less than sending man to Mars ).
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Old 17th December 2016, 19:40   #3
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

I think these are different to the ones supplied to BMTC. This is front engine bus whereas I remember the bmtc buses being rear engine

Last edited by GTO : 19th December 2016 at 11:14. Reason: Typo
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Old 19th December 2016, 12:35   #4
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
A reliable Automatic transmission for Bangalore kind of start stop traffic is probably the trickiest piece of engineering Volvo have built (Not less than sending man to Mars ).
Why is it that tricky? Automatic transmissions from other manufacturers (not buses maybe) travel along side the Volvos in the same stop-go-crawl-wait Bangalore traffic. What's different?

How much do these Tatas cost? Yes, BMTC threw these Tatas out stating maintenance and fuel efficiency issues. If these are better now, it could be a better alternative to the 90L monsters and bring down the ticket costs.
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Old 19th December 2016, 23:07   #5
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

I guess, its about the distance that these buses run each day, and also the F1 drivers who drive them. They would easily run 250Kms on any day, and multiple drivers drive them shift after shift.

My first vehicle was the Bajaj Saffire which was a 3 gear automatic. It rode well for the first couple of years. Then started giving troubles, and it then disintegrated so fast, and about 7 years, it actually stopped running at all. We sold that for 500/- (No zeros missing). It still gives me shivers when I hear about the new AMT in some of those new cars. I feel, they run the same technology that Saffire once ran (I might be grossly wrong here)

Yes, there are the new DSGs in the top end cars. They are ultra smooth to drive. I had once driven the C class automatic, and it was no sweat. But, how much do they run? 30 Kms in a day?

The Volvos are usually crowded, and brimming with people during the peak hours. They stop at stops, (And where ever people just turn up looking for a bus), the bus steers lock to lock at every bus stop. Their AC is probably running a higher shift than anywhere else in the world. (Doors are opened so often). I know drivers are specially trained to drive the Volvos but the abuse they do to these buses might not happen anywhere else.

My take: These buses were the best that Bangalore could have had then. (And still is). It has stood the test of time. And we all love to travel in one, don't we?
The 90L price tag (Maybe 70 then when it was introduced) is possibly a few notches higher. (Bad negotiation? More kick backs?).

And the Marco Polo was probably delivered too soon (When the opportunity rose), and it was never ready. I hope the extra time that they have had from then to now would have made the MarcoPolo a significantly better vehicle. And I wish it now is a true competitor to the Volvos.
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Old 20th December 2016, 15:58   #6
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

The world over city buses use transmissions with a torque converter primary coupling and planetary reduction gears, over the years wet clutches have been added in the converters so that converter multiplication occurs only in first and second. This avoids the clutch wear in stop and go traffic, while provides effeciency close to that of a manual above 20 kph when the wet clutch starts locking the transmission. Approximately 2.5:1 torque multiplication permits starting on gradients with less powerfull engines. Manual and AMT transmissions generally use bigger engines whose potential is not usable in city just to provide enough starting torque for flyover ramps..
Intercity buses use AMT's with Volvo i-shift like 12 speed or more close ratio gears, this is purely for positive drive, effeciency, and to keep larger more powerfull engine at low rpm at cruising speeds.
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Old 20th December 2016, 16:37   #7
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

The Volvos cost more because they are quality products.

Whereas the Marcopolo buses were pure rubbish.
Running them on Bangalore roads for whatever reason, for so long, was a bad decision.
They caused traffic to pile up behind them because they were too slow.
And once on the move, they spewed so much black smoke that it would put NTPC to shame.

Why to create un-necessary health hazard by re-introducing these gas chambers again?
Tata & Transport corporations jointly should first test these vehicles at proper test setup with simulated traffic over extended period of time, rather than using poor civilians as test bed for these gas chambers.

Last edited by abhishek46 : 20th December 2016 at 16:39. Reason: changed comment and spellings
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Old 20th December 2016, 20:00   #8
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Automatic Transmission technology is matured enough for any sort of heavy duty work. I had seen 49 ton tractors with automatic transmission and garbage compactors in developed countries all have automatic transmission. Every major transmission manufactures have a good lineup for any kind of application.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:36   #9
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
I fear, if it is anything like the Marco Polo launched in Bangalore.

A few links -
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...roductive.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/46766324.cms

On a positive note, I hope the newer gen buses, and an efficient BRTS system might aid the new buses. The older ones were possibly driven differently to the purpose they were originally built for.
A reliable Automatic transmission for Bangalore kind of start stop traffic is probably the trickiest piece of engineering Volvo have built (Not less than sending man to Mars ).
Hope you all agree that, Marcopolo is just a building partner for Tata motors. If its to be blamed its only the chassis manufacturer.

Though fully automatics are matured enough to handle any given load, they are way too pricier. Coupled with only few manufacturers have the technology, its a kind of supplier driven pricing rather than market driven.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:02   #10
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

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Hope you all agree that, Marcopolo is just a building partner for Tata motors. If its to be blamed its only the chassis manufacturer.
Neither of the two is to be blamed, the tender which specified very low power engines is to be blamed. It is recommended that congested places with stop go traffic have buses with minimum torque of 35Nm/ton and power of 10 Bhp / Ton, and ideally 50NM/ton 16BHP per ton. This allows the buses a capacity to merging with moving traffic, If Tata is to be blamed it is only for quoting there. Same buses work well in other smaller towns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Though fully automatics are matured enough to handle any given load, they are way too pricier. Coupled with only few manufacturers have the technology, its a kind of supplier driven pricing rather than market driven.
At the moment at least three manufacturers have the capacity and know how to make proper automatics. All three currently import and supply, they also provide service. Once demand begins all three and may be others will come in too and price will fall.
You cannot expect manufacturers to invest in something that is currently not selling.

Rahul

Last edited by Rahul Rao : 22nd December 2016 at 10:04.
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Old 28th December 2016, 23:25   #11
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Doesn't Tata know that they are going to sell in Bengaluru? Why not test the bus before being sold? Who has stopped them from doing so?
And Corona is doing a good job with the same power to weight ration, in fact its only 160hp Vs 180hp of Tata.
So its clearly the manufacturers fault.

Its not atleast three and its only three - Allison, Voith and ZF. Infact out of three, Allison has its plant in Chennai and even with localisation the price of T180 GB is approx ~ 2lks. This is the cheapest of the lot.
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Old 29th December 2016, 10:22   #12
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Being a Bangalorean, I have observed the Marco Polo buses up close. I always felt that the failure of the bus was due to bad design choices probably because of marketing and budget constraints. The engine always seemed underpowered because it always seemed to be running at near maximum revs. Underpowered is the wrong term - under torque is more appropriate. The combination of highly stressed engine and Bangalore's infamous traffic is a killer. The horrible traffic causes many buses to breakdown and this in turn worsens traffic gridlock - a vicious cycle.

Volvo and other euro manufacturers use higher displacement engines (6 litres +) to ensure that high torque is available at lower speeds while ensuring that power is adequate. This characteristic ensures longer engine life since it does not run at high speeds for long durations. You will very rarely see or hear a Volvo bus straining in traffic.

Obviously, big engine + big (high torque capacity) gearbox = more expensive. As long as municipal bus operators are shortsighted about spending money on buying appropriate equipment AND maintenance, there will continue to be failures like the Marco Polo.
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Old 29th December 2016, 11:27   #13
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

The bus pictured in first post doesn't look even remotely similar to those purchased by BMTC. So it would be better to not draw parallels with the failure in Bangalore. This bus seems front engine, and may have manual transmission.
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Old 29th December 2016, 20:50   #14
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

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Originally Posted by AkMar View Post
The bus pictured in first post doesn't look even remotely similar to those purchased by BMTC. So it would be better to not draw parallels with the failure in Bangalore. This bus seems front engine, and may have manual transmission.
It does comes with Automatic.
Difference being the BMTC ones were with T180 and this is with T240.
Anyway these buses are better.
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Old 30th December 2016, 01:45   #15
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Default Re: Amritsar gets Tata Motors AC Buses for BRTS operations

Do I see Double Discharge doors on the bus? Is this the first for any BRTS in India or did the Surat BRTS also use the same design?
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