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Old 9th January 2017, 13:27   #16
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Default re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Glad to know that you are safe. They should have definitely managed the situation better after this incident.

However the pilot's letter which you referred to, is not written by the pilot of this ill fated flight. It is written by someone else. The pilot of this flight surely won't be allowed to write in the media at least till investigation is complete, or perhaps even longer. So I would request everyone to refrain from making comments on the pilot of this flight based on statements in the said article.

Last edited by AkMar : 9th January 2017 at 13:29.
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Old 9th January 2017, 14:33   #17
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Thank God there were no fatalities involved. Pray that you lived to see another day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lokesh View Post
About 25 minutes after the incident, I saw the first stretcher being brought towards us.
This is unbelievable. How can it be that emergency medical help does not reach as quickly as possible? Aren't the airport authorities in constant touch with the pilots when it was taxiing?

I don't know what is the procedure but aren't the airport authorities actually look into the aircraft while being taxied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lokesh View Post
Another 30 minutes passed before we saw the Jet Airways coaches come towards the runway to pick us from the field. A lot of passengers had to leave without their belongings, which were still in the aircraft, such as mobile phones, passports, wallets and even shoes.
This is totally unacceptable on part of jet or airport authorities. One hour to reach the site when it is within the premises.

Hope Jet learn their lessons well and make some heads roll.
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Old 9th January 2017, 15:01   #18
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Thank god you are safe. I cant imagine what the passengers went through. However, i didn't understand why the pilot is being targeted here? From the so called open letter? How do we know that letter is written by that pilot? And why we should blame any pilot for that matter on a accident that is still being investigated? Wasn't he there on the same plane? His life was not in danger? What we should actually avoid is passing judgement. And thats what we are doing here. He/she is already the first one being targeted for this accident. The right to prove fault with pilot or plane lies with authorities and not with us.

Last edited by GTO : 10th January 2017 at 10:37. Reason: Poor language
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Old 9th January 2017, 15:52   #19
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Angry Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

What bothers me more is the poor preparedness of our Airports (Operated under various govt agencies) for emergency situations like these. To attend the crash site that too which is just off the runway, it took 20 minutes. This is horrendous .

Have not been the Navy guys around, it is very painful to think of the consequences in this case. I don't know when this country's infrastructure is overhauled. Please keep up your spirits and get well soon.

: I find the airports run by govt agencies worse than bus stands. In One-off incident, I was supposed to receive a friend in Chennai Airport and they didn't have a proper website for information. http://www.aai.aero/chennai/index.jsp was all I could find & it was full off irrelevant info describing their bureaucracy. I was expecting something on the lines of http://hyderabad.aero/traveller.aspx .... Sorry for my rant but on a whole, the infrastructure in our country needs a major Change.

Last edited by G V Krishna : 9th January 2017 at 16:17. Reason: Missed hyphen
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Old 9th January 2017, 15:57   #20
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

First of all, thank GOD that you are safe along with other passengers. Of late there has been an increase in airline incidents and this is biggest of all.

What I don’t understand is:
  • Why chutes were not used for all four exit doors?
  • There are so much of safety demos but when it comes to actual situation there are so many lapses.
  • 25 minutes is poor ETA. Thank GOD there was no fire, it could have been worse.
  • When will Chalta Hai attitude go from our country? This was a serious situation and the way Jet handled it can be best termed as callous.
  • I don’t care about pilot's letter, but why DGCA hasn't caught hold of Jet till now? Are they still operating from Goa? IMO DGCA should have suspended their flights till the preliminary investigation is completed.

Last edited by PraNeel : 9th January 2017 at 15:59. Reason: Typos
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Old 9th January 2017, 15:59   #21
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lokesh View Post
My apologies beforehand, if you find this post too long to read. In following words, I've tried to narrate my rendezvous with what I thought would be my last moments. I've reproduced here the first person account of a traumatized passenger of the ill fated flight 9W2374 from Goa to Mumbai on 27-Dec-2016, which I wrote for an online publication 'dailyO'. Original article is posted here with some pictures: http://www.dailyo.in/voices/jet-airw...y/1/14900.html
Sorry for the delay in putting it up here. I just hope no one should go through such an experience ever.
First of all, glad to note that you are ok and really sorry for your experience. It is something no flying public should ever face. Having said that it is sad to note that everyone seems to be jumping on the pilot, the cabin crew and the airline without knowing anything about the accident. True, as a fare paying passengers everyone is entitled to their opinion but one must exercise some restraint when tarnishing someone's image in public. You did mention that you took your bag and ran. Do you not know that during an evacuation, that is the first thing that you must not do ?? Having said that, one can completely understand your reaction as our behavior pattern is not always logical or correct in the time of crisis. Yet, somehow that benefit of doubt is not extended to the crew. Just because they are trained does not mean that they are super humans. It just means that they are expected to react better than others. It is still is a crisis that they have probably never experienced just like you. It was early in the morning, and you were preparing for a shut eye while the crew had to be in their full alertness. Remember that just like you, the crew must also be experiencing fatigue and no amount of training can take away the human factors out of flying. Try and read up how our minds reacts when under stress or fatigue. You will be surprised. Its effects can be worse than alcohol.

You say that the pilot did not stop after taking a U-turn as is the procedure. Can you please explain where you got that from ? There exists no such procedure. We tend to believe what we want to believe. In aviation, it is called confirmation bias. We believe in any theory that corroborates with what we believe.

I am really surprised to note how people are assuming that the letter that is doing the rounds is written by one of the pilots. It could very well be from any one pilot from any one airline. You are talking about your sleepless nights, the pilot of the said flight has probably not slept and will not be able to sleep for a long time to come. No one feels worse about an aircraft accident/Incident than the pilot itself. You can at least pour your heart out on social media. Unfortunately, the pilot cannot even talk about it with his own family as the matter is under investigation.

Every flying passenger is entitled for a safe and comfortable flight but do please cut some slack to the crew as they are also doing a job. They do it to the best of their abilities. Next time you make a small mistake at work, just remember that the same mistake by a pilot could have been an accident and the whole world would be passing a judgement while the news of your mistake did not even reach the next cubicle. By all means demand an explanation but please do at least wait for the investigation before you hang the pilot and the crew.

Ps: I am no way implying that you have blamed the pilots but as I did not want to multiquote many authors, I have quoted just you.

Thanks for sharing your story.

FLY SAFE

Last edited by RVD : 9th January 2017 at 16:12.
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Old 9th January 2017, 16:00   #22
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lokesh View Post
Little did I know that this flight from Goa to Mumbai in the wee hours of Tuesday would be the worst nightmare of my life...
First things first. I am really sorry this happened to you. Things could've been worse. Everyone escaped unscathed this harrowing ordeal, and lived to tell the tale. I cant imagine your stresses and sincerely hope that you will move past this event quickly.

Next, lets be wary of fake news. I am 100% sure that the so called 'letter from pilot' is not the letter from pilot. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, unless its a source that you believe in. Lets wait for the DGCA inquiry to get completed. For all you know, he/she may be the hero here.

For the curious, an informative analysis is available here.

http://www.satcom.guru/2016/12/jet-a...m-airport.html

pprune pilots have speculated (or have reasoned) that deployment of right engine thrust reverser during takeoff run is the cause. Whether its uncommanded or something else needs to be determined.

All of us can agree on one thing: The way Jet Airways handled this incident was disastrous. I had held Jet Airways in high esteem till now.
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Old 9th January 2017, 16:14   #23
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But doesn't that leave at least four exits that do have slides? So why, in these circumstances, would they use the ones that don't?
The aircraft traveled on unpaved surface for a fair distance. There is every chance of damage to the undercarriage and it might collapse. There were reports that this indeed, was the case with the nose landing gear. The crew might have taken a conscious decision not to operate the slides because of this reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsdbsd View Post
For the curious, an informative analysis is available here.

http://www.satcom.guru/2016/12/jet-a...m-airport.html

pprune pilots have speculated (or have reasoned) that deployment of right engine thrust reverser during takeoff run is the cause. Whether its uncommanded or something else needs to be determined.

All of us can agree on one thing: The way Jet Airways handled this incident was disastrous. I had held Jet Airways in high esteem till now.
Yes there were unconfirmed reports that the right engine's thrust reverser got operated at 74% power and this caused the aircraft to veer off the runway. To the best of my knowledge, the thrust reversers cannot be operated independently; once selected thrust reversers on both engines should operate simultaneously. If it is true that the thrust reverser of one engine operated independently, it means that it was a technical failure and not the fault of the pilot. However, that open letter(whoever wrote it) is stupid and uncalled for.

Last edited by Enobarbus : 9th January 2017 at 16:20.
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Old 9th January 2017, 16:56   #24
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enobarbus View Post
To the best of my knowledge, the thrust reversers cannot be operated independently..
May be. I dont know. After Lauda Air 004, sufficient checks and balances are built-in to prevent any uncommanded deployment of thrust reversers. But in the accident picture, its clear that the starboard engine sits with the reverser activated. But it may be due to the impact itself (Thus begins the armchair experts speculation!). Picture credit: pprune, /u/daelight.

You are spot-on wrt to that uncalled for article.
Attached Thumbnails
A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-fricyfs.jpg  


Last edited by bsdbsd : 9th January 2017 at 16:59. Reason: typo
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Old 9th January 2017, 18:34   #25
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

I have no words. Shivers are travelling down my spine, even as I read this, as a remote person. One can't even imagine what you went through.

And by the way you describe that the crew was not prepared for such situations, makes it all the more scary. They say that statistically air travel is the safest. But when something does happen, it is very catastrophic.

Thank goodness, it did n't happen once the plane was air born. Glad no one was fatally wounded. Wishes for all passengers to recover physically and mentally from the trauma.
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Old 9th January 2017, 18:39   #26
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Thank god you are fine.

Your incident shows alarming irregularities in the system. And worse, they don't treat you with food and drinks after you just cheated death?

What alarming:
1. Airhostess not being able to do what they are supposed to. They are supposed to be well trained to be calm in such a situation and administer first aid.
2. Why does the emergency vehicle take 25 minutes to arrive? And what was with the 'rough terrain' you mentioned?
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:09   #27
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Before I start, let me just state that I am a pilot for a US major, and fly a Boeing 777 for a living. Which is quite similar to the 737-800, the aircraft involved in the accident.

Before I start, let me explain what happened and what are the possible causes.
  1. The 737 backtracked runway 26, made a 180 at the end and was going to take off from runway 26.
  2. Crew applied Takeoff thrust, but the aircraft continued to turn right and hence skidded off the runway.
  3. Crew rejected takeoff and the aircraft nosedived into the ground.

Possible causes
  1. Crew made the 180 turn, and without verifying thrust symmetry, pressed the TOGA. Thrust symmetry is when both the engines have spooled up to the same RPM. If there is any asymmetry, the aircraft can and will be rendered uncontrollable. The correct SOP to avoid a situation like this is to first spool up to 40 to 50%. Once both engines have the same N1 rpm displayed, then TOGA/take off thrust is set.

  2. TOGA/takeoff thrust was set without straightening the nose wheel fully for take off.

  3. A mechanical failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lokesh View Post
Why wouldn’t I judge your experience and capability when I, including everyone on that plane, felt there was a delay in cutting out the throttle?
You felt there was a delay? Can you recognize the difference in engine noise at low N1(engine rpm) levels? Do you know the difference between 90% N1, 80% N1 & 60% N1? I assure you, you don't. You don't know when the throttles were retarded. You don't know when the thrust reversers were deployed, and if they worked properly or not.

Quote:
Why would I not judge you when I leave my life in your hands? Why would I not judge you when your airline is so apathetic to survivors?
If the crew did not follow the SOP, made an error for eg. 1 or 2 listed above, then they must surely be brought to the task. But you're no one to decide that. The DGCA is going to conduct an investigation and come out with their report, which is what people and you should believe. If they declare that the crew made an error, then you're free to blame them as much as you want. But not before that.

Quote:
Why would I not judge you when even 10 days after the incident, I wake up in the middle of the night with nightmares?
A runway excursion is a relatively common event, and happens/has happened with almost every airline once or twice. I know you won't belive me, so I sugeest you take a long hard look at the aviation-safety.net website. I don't know why this gives you nightmares.

Quote:
Why would I not judge you when I for sure know that you didn’t come to a complete halt after taking the U-turn on the runway and before initiating take-off (I came to know later that the procedure is necessary).
No, you're wrong. Bringing the aircraft to a stop after executing a turn is not necessary or recommended. From my 777 flight crew training manual.A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-capture.png


Quote:
And finally, why would I not judge you when I saw your crew helpless and unprepared for such a situation? After all you were the captain of that ship?
I may be the captain of the ship, but I don't get to select the best of the cabin crew I want on my plane. Maybe you got a bad selection, maybe you didn't. But why blame the pilot for the fault of the airline?

Quote:
So, I would just like to suggest to you, humbly, to write a letter stating the facts. I hope you realise that all the passengers saw death in front of them under your command.
Really, do you think that those pilots are allowed to speak to the media about what went wrong? Are you that naive? One wrong sentence from any of them, and the media would hang them out to dry, as you're doing now.

Quote:
I just hope a thorough investigation reveals what transpired in the cockpit. And if it is proved that you did your best, no one would be happier than me. That day, I will find you and give you my thanks
Even if they could, as a pilot, let me make it very clear that I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who flies in my aircraft and then declares himself the judge, jury and executioner when something goes wrong. I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVD View Post
I am no way implying that you have blamed the pilots but as I did not want to multiquote many authors, I have quoted just you.
Good reply. But I'll take a step further & blatantly accuse this guy of writing a emotionally charged piece, having no knowledge of the aircraft, its respective procedures, or any aviation knowhow at all. Typical Indian media.

Quote:
All of us can agree on one thing: The way Jet Airways handled this incident was disastrous. I had held Jet Airways in high esteem till now.
Yes, if there's any truth in this man's report, then yes this was handled in a very unfortunate manner. And those responsible for such a lax response should be brought to task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsdbsd View Post
pprune pilots have speculated (or have reasoned) that deployment of right engine thrust reverser during takeoff run is the cause. Whether its uncommanded or something else needs to be determined.
The thrust reversers cannot be engaged if thrust lever is above idle and the thrust levers can not move above idle if reverser lever not in the stow position. So there is no chance of the reverser being engaged during the takeoff run, unless it was a failure. Also FADEC(an aircraft's ECU) will prevent full reverse thrust if both reverser sleeves are not deployed more than 60%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsdbsd View Post
But in the accident picture, its clear that the starboard engine sits with the reverser activated. But it may be due to the impact itself (Thus begins the armchair experts speculation!)
Either that or a mechanical failure of the thrust reversers. No way a single reversal could've been deployed by the pilots.

Last edited by GTO : 10th January 2017 at 10:39. Reason: First line was unnecessary. Keep it cool & polite on Team-BHP.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:32   #28
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

I'm attaching some photos of the ill-fated flight which were sent to the Goan media by the Navy and other sources.

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane01.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane02.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane03.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane04.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane05.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane06.jpg

A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway-plane07.jpg


A few more details about the mishap in this report that appeared in The Goan newspaper on December 28, 2016.

-----------------------------

Early morning nightmare as Jet Airways flight veers off runway

THE GOAN NETWORK
VASCO:
About 15 passengers were injured while 149 passengers and seven crew had a lucky escape, when a Jet Airways flight 9W 2374 from Goa-Mumbai veered off the runway and struck the ground while aligning for take off at Dabolim airport in the wee hours of Tuesday morning.

The 15 passengers were injured when they reportedly jumped off the plane, but a Jet Airways statement claims that “all guests and crew were been safely evacuated. A few guests sustained injuries during the evacuation process.”

According to reports, the mishap took place at the Runway 26 at about 5 am as the Jet Airways flight 9W 2374, which had arrived from Dubai, was carrying 164 passengers and seven crew to Mumbai, en route to Abu Dhabi.

Sources told The Goan that the plane was in the process of taking off when the aircraft veered right from the runway and struck the rocks, before coming to a halt.

“Both wings and engines of the aircraft were damaged following the incident,” said a source at the airport.

“Though all passengers were safe, the incident triggered panic among passengers and around twenty passengers, including a pregnant lady, jumped off the flight after opening the plane's emergency door,” added the source.

“They may have been afraid that the plane could burst into flames and jumped off the aircraft. While some landed on the hard rocks, others landed on softer ground. The remaining passengers were later evacuated to safety.”

“Some injured passengers were referred to Chicalim Cottage Hospital, while others were moved to a private hospital at Chicalim,” the source added.

Emergency rescue services rushed to the site moments after the incident and authorities were also present to take stock of the situation.

In a press release, the Navy PRO said, “The ATC duty personnel on runway reported the aircraft leaving the runway and subsequently received a distress call from the aircraft. The aircraft came to halt about 250-300 metres away from runway,”

“The emergency crew of the Indian Navy were immediately dispatched in rescue vehicles to the crash site. All personnel onboard were evacuated and medical aid on the site was provided by MI Room at Hansa. A total of 15 persons were injured and medical aid is being provided by local hospitals,” the Navy PRO added.

“Flying operations were suspended till 9 am and aircraft in air were diverted by ATC personnel. Runway was made ready by after a thorough inspection and clearance of minor debris.”

The Navy also stated that an investigation has been commenced by Jet technical team and Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (AAIB) members.
“All assistance has been provided by the Navy. Shifting of the aircraft will commence post clearance by AAIB. In addition, some salvage material has arrived Goa and rest will be arriving by road,” the Navy added.

Speaking to media persons at Chicalim Cottage Hospital, a passenger recalled that the plane had left the aerobridge and was about to take off, when they heard a rumbling sound and moments later, the plane came to a sudden halt.

“We saw smoke emanating from the engine and we were scared that the plane might burst into flames and we would die,” said the passenger.

Another female passenger added that when the passengers seated on the middle row of seats saw smoke emanating from the left engine, they became alarmed and some passengers jumped off the plane and suffered injuries.

“The plane went about 200 metres off the runway before coming to a stop. We panicked at the thought that the plane would crash through the airport's compound wall and explode into flames,” the passenger said.

In a statement, Jet airways stated that “medical assistance is being coordinated to those injured by the Jet Airways team and the airport authorities.”

Till late Tuesday evening, the aircraft was still grounded at the site.


SOURCE:
http://englishnews.thegoan.net/story.php?id=27890

Last edited by misquitas : 10th January 2017 at 01:43.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:03   #29
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

searchingheaven, I am very glad that you came to the thread to bring some actual knowledge. The rest of us, on or off the flight, should realise that we are in no way qualified to do anything other than vague speculation about what happened, how, why and who was responsible. Maybe its human nature to make guesses, though. Lets admit that they are guesses.

The subjective experience, though, there in the passenger seat is a different matter. I have no idea how scared I would have been: I wasn't there. I have no idea if I would have nightmares. I think not, but, again, I wasn't there. I'm afraid that a perception of poor after-the-event response and customer service would tend to make any report I made into a bit of a rant.

There has been such a thing as satire for centuries, and a handful of internet sites made a fine art form of spoof news. Now it is called fake news and a free for all. Why so many people are filling Whatsapp, the internet, etc etc, with garbage, often intended to disturb more than amuse, I do not know. The other day, our maid returned from the shop saying they were not accepting Rs10 coins. Heck, that was last week's crazy rumour! So, that "letter:" healthy cynicism required. And I admit I did not have the sense to realise that immediately.
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Old 10th January 2017, 07:41   #30
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Default Re: A trip I'd like to forget: Onboard the Jet Airways flight that skidded off a runway

Thank you, @SearchingHeaven. Thanks for stepping in and throwing some light on what could have happened there. There were a few experts trying to dump their knowledge on the cause. Glad you came in.

@All - not that I support the pilots. But neither those in the plane nor us in RoW know that much to be criticizing the pilot like has been done. Like @SH said, the DGCA is there, and let them do their work. About the crew, well - not everyone is a Neerja.

Last edited by GTO : 10th January 2017 at 10:40. Reason: Removing quoted part which has been deleted
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