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Old 1st March 2017, 17:42   #31
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Default Re: Private jets of Indian industrialists

I remember seeing a three engined aircraft in Kingfisher livery when the King of Good Times was flying high with his airline, and being confused as I knew they had either the Airbus or ATRs in their fleet, which were both twin engine.

Realised that it must be his private chariot which just shared the livery...
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Old 1st March 2017, 23:10   #32
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Originally Posted by NowNew7 View Post
I remember seeing a three engined aircraft in Kingfisher livery when the King of Good Times was flying high with his airline, and being confused as I knew they had either the Airbus or ATRs in their fleet, which were both twin engine.

Realised that it must be his private chariot which just shared the livery...
They had a Boeing 727 (N727VJ), which was seen quite often in Bangalore.

It has been scrapped.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 13:05   #33
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Default Re: Private jets of Indian industrialists

Big thanks to Rupesh M for sharing this! Looks like Gautam Singhania's jets (among other things) are attracting the wrath of shareholders.

Private jets of Indian industrialists-img20170302wa0022-1.jpg
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Old 2nd March 2017, 15:42   #34
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Originally Posted by drift2race View Post
Are you from the air force , because all three of the pilots were from there . C kishore , James Sebastian & Capt.Mohit (He currently flies it) .
All 3 wonderful gentlemen. Mohit has since moved to an airline. JKL now is in the books of Air car ... She looked beautiful but I recall was a nightmare to maintain.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 18:25   #35
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Big thanks to Rupesh M for sharing this! Looks like Gautam Singhania's jets (among other things) are attracting the wrath of shareholders.
This is happening more and more around the globe. My company came under fire for having a company jet last year as well.

Not only shareholders, but more and more the general public, certain in large parts of Wester Europe, object to anything they see as extravanca, be it salary, bonuses, and now also company jets for executives

I canít judge for other companies, but I had some idea of our executive team used our jet. It made a lot of sense. They more or less lived aboard it for weeks at a time, flying from customer to customer around the globe. They slept on board and only checked into hotel rooms for an hour or so to have a shower.

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Old 2nd March 2017, 19:38   #36
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Not only shareholders, but more and more the general public, certain in large parts of Wester Europe, object to anything they see as extravanca, be it salary, bonuses, and now also company jets for executives
Jeroen
There is just sense of unjust communism creeping into all world countries right now but not many understand that its the people with desires to own private jets that have actually changed the world for the better. Sam Walton attributes the success of Walmart to his idea of flying on his private jet when they were just building the brand rather than driving. It saved him lots and lots of time. But that said failing to deliver on promises and instead funding planes is not correct.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 21:40   #37
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Big thanks to Rupesh M for sharing this! Looks like Gautam Singhania's jets (among other things) are attracting the wrath of shareholders.

Wow. It seems like the Poonawallas are a wise lot now . Adar Poonawalla was asked about IPO'ing his flagship concern and he said he doesn't want to justify his cars or planes to anyone. Wise guy is all I can say .

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There is just sense of unjust communism creeping into all world countries right now but not many understand that its the people with desires to own private jets that have actually changed the world for the better. Sam Walton attributes the success of Walmart to his idea of flying on his private jet when they were just building the brand rather than driving. It saved him lots and lots of time. But that said failing to deliver on promises and instead funding planes is not correct.
Maybe, but don't forget there IS bad corporate governance in India in the smaller firms. Deccan Chronicle is a clear case. 23 Bentleys, an IPL team, and 6 Rolls Royces, and other cars. The Chairman was supposed to go to jail and he used his political connections to get away with a slap on the wrist.

What about his shareholders who lost money ?

I have personally experienced this myself. A close aide/party member of a particular CM had a publicly listed company and I though the accounts were legitimate and bought into the stock because it was cheap. In retrospect now I know why it was cheap.
The company went to hell, meanwhile, the family of the said man lives life king size. His son races cars in the USA, their family has an Aston Martin Rapide (registered on the company name), and recently his son's Porsche 911 was impounded when they were found street racing.

There definitely are people in India who live life at other public's expense. Vijay Mallya is a prime example. Do you really think he paid for all this planes with personal funds or everything was a company expense.

The issue is, this is not a black or white area. Purchases are left at the discretion of the management. And you have people who go overboard, like the Deccan Chronicle guy, and people for whom it's completely justified like RIL (which owns assets in almost every continent).

Last edited by D33-PAC : 2nd March 2017 at 22:06.
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Old 2nd March 2017, 22:18   #38
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Originally Posted by krishnakarthik1 View Post
There is just sense of unjust communism creeping into all world countries right now but not many understand that its the people with desires to own private jets that have actually changed the world for the better. Sam Walton attributes the success of Walmart to his idea of flying on his private jet when they were just building the brand rather than driving. It saved him lots and lots of time. But that said failing to deliver on promises and instead funding planes is not correct.
I think there is quite a bit of difference between communism and challenging executives on their pay, bonuses, parties and for instance their jets.

Iím not sure I agree with you statement that these are the people that have changed the world for the better. It depends on your point of view. In addition, I can draw up a list of individuals who have owned private jets and they would be regarded by most of us as very unsavoury characters, no matter what our own political preference would be.

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Old 3rd March 2017, 16:53   #39
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What an interesting thread this is!! Great work D33-PAC. Just out of curiosity, hows it to maintain a small private jet in India (a rough giveaway of charges) and how much does one of the less special but decent private jet / chopper costs?
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Old 3rd March 2017, 20:47   #40
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Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
What an interesting thread this is!! Great work D33-PAC. Just out of curiosity, hows it to maintain a small private jet in India (a rough giveaway of charges) and how much does one of the less special but decent private jet / chopper costs?

In any case extremely expensive, remember none of these are ever personally owned. A car is bought by a person, a truck can be bought by a person. But a jet, a chopper is almost invariably bought by a company on behalf of a person.

Remember, you're talking about landing fees and parking fees just for landing and letting it sit on the tarmac. That means every time it lands a small hole in the company's bank account is burned. And if you think you're smart to evade all those charges by letting it sit idle at the airport's parking bay or hangar, unless you own the hangar, you're still paying parking fees (so now for doing nothing with the plane you're still losing money).

A decent plane like the Hawker 800XP can set you back 20 crores. Consider this the Mercedes C class of the skies, used only for travel within a country.

Same with a helicopter. A lot of the engineering firms like HCC, GVK, GMR have sikorskys or bells and those will set you back about 10 to 15 crores.

And then don't forget maintenance. Replacing hydraulics etcetera, all this is a costly affair especially with import tax on parts and all that. Don't forget, you need a man to fly the thing now, and if you're really serious about usage then you have the hire the pilot full time . So now you have a person that comes with the aircraft whose career is dedicated to serving you.

Which is why it isn't a surprise when you look at who owns these things, the owners are all at the top of society's economic food chain. What's striking about all of them is none of the work for money, money works for them, and the plane is a part of facilitating that !

Last edited by D33-PAC : 3rd March 2017 at 20:58.
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Old 5th March 2017, 16:41   #41
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Default Re: Private jets of Indian industrialists

Here are few pics of Jets and Turbo prop which i have flown in. The pics are of Dasault Falcon 7x, Cessna XLS , King air B200 and C90. The best of the lot is undoubtedly falcon 7x.
Attached Thumbnails
Private jets of Indian industrialists-7x.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-7x2.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-b200.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-outb200.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-xlsinair.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-xls.jpg  

Private jets of Indian industrialists-c90.jpg  

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Old 6th March 2017, 00:23   #42
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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
In any case extremely expensive, remember none of these are ever personally owned. A car is bought by a person, a truck can be bought by a person. But a jet, a chopper is almost invariably bought by a company on behalf of a person.

Remember, you're talking about landing fees and parking fees just for landing and letting it sit on the tarmac. That means every time it lands a small hole in the company's bank account is burned. And if you think you're smart to evade all those charges by letting it sit idle at the airport's parking bay or hangar, unless you own the hangar, you're still paying parking fees (so now for doing nothing with the plane you're still losing money).

A decent plane like the Hawker 800XP can set you back 20 crores. Consider this the Mercedes C class of the skies, used only for travel within a country.

Same with a helicopter. A lot of the engineering firms like HCC, GVK, GMR have sikorskys or bells and those will set you back about 10 to 15 crores.

And then don't forget maintenance. Replacing hydraulics etcetera, all this is a costly affair especially with import tax on parts and all that. Don't forget, you need a man to fly the thing now, and if you're really serious about usage then you have the hire the pilot full time . So now you have a person that comes with the aircraft whose career is dedicated to serving you.

Which is why it isn't a surprise when you look at who owns these things, the owners are all at the top of society's economic food chain. What's striking about all of them is none of the work for money, money works for them, and the plane is a part of facilitating that !
How about a small chopper like a Bell Jet Ranger 505 in particular on a private limited company's name? What would be the rough cost of purchase considering its $1.1M in the U.S, where to buy here and rough take off / landing fees, fuel charges and maintenance?

Asking only out of curiosity
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Old 6th March 2017, 08:30   #43
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Originally Posted by AdiSinghV12 View Post
How about a small chopper like a Bell Jet Ranger 505 in particular on a private limited company's name? What would be the rough cost of purchase considering its $1.1M in the U.S, where to buy here and rough take off / landing fees, fuel charges and maintenance?
A small rotary wing like a Bell 505 or Eurocopter EC120 will cost around $2MM-$2.5MM new all told (don't go by Wikipedia!). A pre-owned would cost between $1.25MM and $1.5MM depending on its condition and age. The Bell 505 is a new machine and well depreciated pieces may be hard to find. Purchasing a second hand helicopter in India has its limitations as you are limited to buying from the region due to the cost and challenge of transportation. Helicopters by definition have limits to their ferry range. Maintenance, fuel, pilots, spares and airport charges would cost you about Rs 3 to 6 crores per annum depending on how much you fly and what is the next overhaul due. An aircraft is a very expensive asset that depreciates rapidly as many a medium sized industrialist discovers after the purchase.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 6th March 2017 at 08:34.
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Old 6th March 2017, 09:46   #44
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Default Re: Private jets of Indian industrialists

It is indeed quite common to see shareholders frown upon big jet purchases by industrialists. For example, here's an article from 2013 when Force Motors purchased a jet to ferry officials between Pune and Indore: News link.
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Old 6th March 2017, 09:55   #45
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A small rotary wing like a Bell 505 or Eurocopter EC120 will cost around $2MM-$2.5MM new all told (don't go by Wikipedia!). A pre-owned would cost between $1.25MM and $1.5MM depending on its condition and age.
Thanks for the input Mr.Narayan, you seem to be an aviation subject matter expert.

Can these be financed like a car with a loan ?

I read that the GMR group once even booked a Dassault Falcon 7X costing 250 crores.

I mean that is a mind boggling sum even for an industrialist. I don't know even if their companies have that much cash sitting around. Industrialists have lots of assets, but liquidity is another topic altogether. 250 crores in one go is a big figure .

And I don't think banks will be nice enough to consider the 250 crore bill as part of the working capital loan you plan to take from them to pay it off.

Surely not even the Maharajas of commerce pay for their toys in full cash ?
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Originally Posted by Tj00072 View Post
Here are few pics of Jets and Turbo prop which i have flown in. The pics are of Dasault Falcon 7x, Cessna XLS , King air B200 and C90. The best of the lot is undoubtedly falcon 7x.
Thanks for sharing. Willing to share info regarding who owns the 7X ? It's a wonderful bird and there are probably only a few Indians on earth that own such a bird so very eager to know.

Last edited by D33-PAC : 6th March 2017 at 10:01.
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